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Major Trant
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
78
   |
Posted - 2012.07.16 13:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I ask this because I recently took part in an "RvB Ganked" roam which killed a Nighthawk in HED-GP. We killed the ship, podded the pilot, looted and salvaged the wreak. However, the Nighthawk kill has never appeared. The pod did, but not the command ship.
I had a similar experience on the 16th May with a Vulture in Poinen. The kill did eventually appear but it only had one pilot involved in the kill and he did precisely one damage.
I petitioned the Nighthawk loss and was told, yes it was killed but no loss mail was generated, sometimes it happens, unfortunately we cannot manually create a loss mail when that happens.
The only explanation I can think of is that the pilot ejected just before the final blow. I don't know if that actually happened or not, I'm just guessing. People have told me that ejecting doesn't negate the loss mail, but I'm wondering if it resets the kill data in the same way a session change like jumping through a gate resets the kill data.
Also when a pilot ejects, the ship loses up to 25% of it's structure points just because of the fact that the pilot's Mechanic skill bonus has been removed. Thus if a pilot ejects with less than say 20% of hull left, will the ship instantly pop as the modified structure drops to a negative number with nobody getting the final blow?
If I'm barking up the wrong tree, has anyone got an alternative explanation for this?
Thanks in advance. |
Lyric Lahnder
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 13:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
The hull value cannot go to negative. If hull was at 20% and the pilot ejects its value would be reduced to what it would be, had the total hull been reduced by 25% and was then at 20%.
For instance:
Nighthawk hull + Mechanic V = 4805
Nighthawk hull - Mechanic skill = 3844
Nighthawk hull w skill at 20% hull = 961
Night Hawk hull w/o skill at 20% hull = 768
and of course if my math is off I apologize.
Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.comI Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
346
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 14:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think ejecting does negate the loss mail, but not being a spineless coward I cannot verify.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Signal11th
618
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 14:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:I ask this because I recently took part in an "RvB Ganked" roam which killed a Nighthawk in HED-GP. We killed the ship, podded the pilot, looted and salvaged the wreak. However, the Nighthawk kill has never appeared. The pod did, but not the command ship.
I had a similar experience on the 16th May with a Vulture in Poinen. The kill did eventually appear but it only had one pilot involved in the kill and he did precisely one damage.
I petitioned the Nighthawk loss and was told, yes it was killed but no loss mail was generated, sometimes it happens, unfortunately we cannot manually create a loss mail when that happens.
The only explanation I can think of is that the pilot ejected just before the final blow. I don't know if that actually happened or not, I'm just guessing. People have told me that ejecting doesn't negate the loss mail, but I'm wondering if it resets the kill data in the same way a session change like jumping through a gate resets the kill data.
Also when a pilot ejects, the ship loses up to 25% of it's structure points just because of the fact that the pilot's Mechanic skill bonus has been removed. Thus if a pilot ejects with less than say 20% of hull left, will the ship instantly pop as the modified structure drops to a negative number with nobody getting the final blow?
If I'm barking up the wrong tree, has anyone got an alternative explanation for this?
Thanks in advance.
Self Destruct?
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Zoe Athame
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 17:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Major Trant wrote:I ask this because I recently took part in an "RvB Ganked" roam which killed a Nighthawk in HED-GP. We killed the ship, podded the pilot, looted and salvaged the wreak. However, the Nighthawk kill has never appeared. The pod did, but not the command ship.
I had a similar experience on the 16th May with a Vulture in Poinen. The kill did eventually appear but it only had one pilot involved in the kill and he did precisely one damage.
I petitioned the Nighthawk loss and was told, yes it was killed but no loss mail was generated, sometimes it happens, unfortunately we cannot manually create a loss mail when that happens.
The only explanation I can think of is that the pilot ejected just before the final blow. I don't know if that actually happened or not, I'm just guessing. People have told me that ejecting doesn't negate the loss mail, but I'm wondering if it resets the kill data in the same way a session change like jumping through a gate resets the kill data.
Also when a pilot ejects, the ship loses up to 25% of it's structure points just because of the fact that the pilot's Mechanic skill bonus has been removed. Thus if a pilot ejects with less than say 20% of hull left, will the ship instantly pop as the modified structure drops to a negative number with nobody getting the final blow?
If I'm barking up the wrong tree, has anyone got an alternative explanation for this?
Thanks in advance. Self Destruct?
I was involved with the may 16th vulture kill and we decided it was a self destruct |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars
Ethereal Dawn
347
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 20:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zoe Athame wrote:Signal11th wrote:Major Trant wrote:I ask this because I recently took part in an "RvB Ganked" roam which killed a Nighthawk in HED-GP. We killed the ship, podded the pilot, looted and salvaged the wreak. However, the Nighthawk kill has never appeared. The pod did, but not the command ship.
I had a similar experience on the 16th May with a Vulture in Poinen. The kill did eventually appear but it only had one pilot involved in the kill and he did precisely one damage.
I petitioned the Nighthawk loss and was told, yes it was killed but no loss mail was generated, sometimes it happens, unfortunately we cannot manually create a loss mail when that happens.
The only explanation I can think of is that the pilot ejected just before the final blow. I don't know if that actually happened or not, I'm just guessing. People have told me that ejecting doesn't negate the loss mail, but I'm wondering if it resets the kill data in the same way a session change like jumping through a gate resets the kill data.
Also when a pilot ejects, the ship loses up to 25% of it's structure points just because of the fact that the pilot's Mechanic skill bonus has been removed. Thus if a pilot ejects with less than say 20% of hull left, will the ship instantly pop as the modified structure drops to a negative number with nobody getting the final blow?
If I'm barking up the wrong tree, has anyone got an alternative explanation for this?
Thanks in advance. Self Destruct? I was involved with the may 16th vulture kill and we decided it was a self destruct
Self destructing now a days still gives you a kill mail, though it's malformed:
http://etherealdawn.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13985906
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOAFsgwClog
As for OP, people eject from T3 ships before destruction cause it will mean they don't loose skillpoints.
Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á
If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it.
We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Major Trant
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 00:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
I can't believe that either kill was the result of a self destruct for the simple reason that it takes 2 minutes to count down and I doubt that either battles/ganks lasted that long, additionally nobody noticed any self destruct warning messages.
I'm inclined to believe it was an eject, which resets the kill mail and someone saying that the mail is generated but is malformed makes sense. The vulture kill did eventually appear, but with one pilot on the mail with only one damage. The Nighthawk kill was on an RvB Ganked roam and the final blow may have fallen to someone without a Killboard.
But it would be nice if CCP would confirm this. I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get an answer on the petition. All they keep saying is they can't discuss another player's loss. However, I'm not asking them to discuss the specifics of this kill just confirm whether this is a bug or an exploit, but it is like they are hiding behind this rule because they don't know or can't be bothered to investigate it. The petition number is 2932689 if a Dev is following this thread and wants to look into this further. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
79
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 00:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lyric posted the right answer. If you leave your ship while it's below 25% hull (depending on your mechanics skill) the ship instapops because without that mechanics skill it would be below 0% hull. In that specific scnaerio there's no killmail.
Amat victoria curam. |
Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:I think ejecting does negate the loss mail, but not being a spineless coward I cannot verify.
Yes, yes...ejecting from a ship that will explode in 4 seconds makes you a coward... mhm. |
Major Trant
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ok I carried out a test tonight with a noob ship. Shot it to 11 pts of structure, stopped firing on it and then ejected. Shortly after eject even though no further damage was being taken the noob ship exploded.
NO LOSS MAIL, not for the victim or the victor.
My initial suspicion that removing the Mechanical skill bonus when you are in less than 20% of structure is confirmed, causes the hull hit pts to go negative and the ship to explode without anyone being identified as the final blow and thus no loss mail is generated.
Vilnius Zar, you are correct in all but who said it. I said it in my initial post. Lyric is incorrect. |
Katie Frost
Asgard.
Exodus.
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 00:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote:I think ejecting does negate the loss mail, but not being a spineless coward I cannot verify. Yes, yes...ejecting from a ship that will explode in 4 seconds makes you a coward... mhm.
What are you... some RL role player? You must escape your ship before it explodes or you biomass your character? Who cares if you are in your ship when it pops... you end up in a pod and warp away, same as if you ejected.
The 'coward' part comes from being scared of people ridiculing your kill-mail after the fact; hence the attempt to deny it. |
Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 03:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote:I think ejecting does negate the loss mail, but not being a spineless coward I cannot verify. Yes, yes...ejecting from a ship that will explode in 4 seconds makes you a coward... mhm. What are you... some RL role player? You must escape your ship before it explodes or you biomass your character? Who cares if you are in your ship when it pops... you end up in a pod and warp away, same as if you ejected. The 'coward' part comes from being scared of people ridiculing your kill-mail after the fact; hence the attempt to deny it.
You must have missed the pithy facetiousness in my post... |
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