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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2010.06.10 09:38:00 -
[1]
Hello all,
I've been playing around with PI recently and have, to my great dismay, discovered that CCP has implemented PI with a "Schr÷dinger's Quarry" mechanic in regards to depletion. Let me elaborate.
Place an extractor, and set it to mine a certain amount.
As soon as it has mined the set amount, it stops.
Tell it to check the exact same location you placed it on for more materials.
More materials are found, set it to a certain amount, repeat.
It was stated on the forums recently by I believe an ISD that the resources act like "a hole that refills as you empty it" while this actually isn't true. What essentially happens is that the materials don't deplete at all, you simply have to observe the fact that they have not depleted to make this true, hence Schr÷dinger's Quarry; if you don't observe the quarry to check if it's still full, you won't know if it's full or not.
Thus what we are presented with are technology in the form of extractors which are deployed from a command structure by engineers and complex nanomechanical factories but are unable to observe the deposit underneath them, they simply have presets which, once reached, they are unable to check for further deposits.
CCP has therefore validated New Eden as an instance in which the Copenhagen theory of quantum mechanics when applied states that Planetary resources both exist and do not exist simultaneously.
Anyway, my two cents 
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 Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Tragic smelting accidents.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.06.10 09:44:00 -
[2]
So in other words this is not really different from Schr÷dinger's Cat, which, since there was no way to check on the cat unless you open the box, was in two states - dead and alive. This is referred to as Coherent State, a principle in Quantum Mechanics - am I right?
Apply | Sigs
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.10 09:50:00 -
[3]
I don't like being put in a box.
My Facebook! |
Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2010.06.10 09:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
So in other words this is not really different from Schr÷dinger's Cat, which, since there was no way to check on the cat unless you open the box, was in two states - dead and alive. This is referred to as Coherent State, a principle in Quantum Mechanics - am I right?
Boom headshot.
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Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Tragic smelting accidents.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.06.10 09:55:00 -
[5]
It's not quite the same as there is only one state, that of a non empty hole, which you could accurately calculate once you know the equation. The hole does not exist in an uncertain state of empty or not empty which can only resolve itself once observed.
This all ignores the fact that this is a computer programme.
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2010.06.10 09:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zartrader
It's not quite the same as there is only one state, that of a non empty hole, which you could accurately calculate once you know the equation. The hole does not exist in an uncertain state of empty or not empty which can only resolve itself once observed.
This all ignores the fact that this is a computer programme.
Well, we were told it was empty by an ISD. It could, theoretically, be empty, and then refill upon observation.
I just wanted to throw out a little thought experiment, I've got a three hour train journey in about an hour, and I'd like to see what people come up with when I get back 
-----
Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Tragic smelting accidents.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:03:00 -
[7]
Extractor cycles and resource depletion are not the same thing.
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DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zartrader on 10/06/2010 10:11:14
Originally by: Imiarr Timshae
Originally by: Zartrader
It's not quite the same as there is only one state, that of a non empty hole, which you could accurately calculate once you know the equation. The hole does not exist in an uncertain state of empty or not empty which can only resolve itself once observed.
This all ignores the fact that this is a computer programme.
Well, we were told it was empty by an ISD. It could, theoretically, be empty, and then refill upon observation.
I just wanted to throw out a little thought experiment, I've got a three hour train journey in about an hour, and I'd like to see what people come up with when I get back
Well yes, its just for fun
If it was empty then that would not be quantum either as, again, its state would be known. It's the same as me flicking on a light switch gives light otherwise there is no light, there's no uncertainty there.
Even if it was set up to be uncertain (it may or may not be full depending on some probability decided when you scan) this is not quantum either as at any given time it exists in one state or the other. Quantum means it exists in both (or several) states and it does not exist in one state until observed.
I think we should stick Cat into a hole and ask her after if they got to talk to themselves.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:12:00 -
[9]
Unless you look at it, you don't know what's there or if something that has been there is still there. Simple logic, duh!
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All I want is a better mankind.
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:16:00 -
[10]
So, you're saying the CCP didn't go to the length of creating a massive database of planets and the minerals they contain regionally across a tectonic surface?
The bastards. How very dare they?
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:19:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zartrader on 10/06/2010 10:20:54
Originally by: Abrazzar
Unless you look at it, you don't know what's there or if something that has been there is still there. Simple logic, duh!
When I was a kid I used to wonder if something existed if I did not look at it. It used to drive me nuts. I even used to turn my head fast to see if I could see nothing for a split second. I also used to wonder how much faster or slower I made the world turn when I walked. And if I walked long enough could I stop the world turning?
I've tried the 'don't look' trick with girlfriends when they wanted me to go shopping with them. I found women are exempt from Quantum Mechanics.
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mingmin
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:27:00 -
[12]
Well no one asks what the cat thinks!!!!
To the cat it's not quantum, so why should we assume in our vain human way that because we dont know the answer, we'll call it quantum.
The cat knows the answer, so it's cleverer than you, and the cats called Einstein and knows all about relativity, now give it a bowl of milk and hang your head in shame!!
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:29:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Freyya on 10/06/2010 10:31:03
Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 10/06/2010 10:20:54
Originally by: Abrazzar
Unless you look at it, you don't know what's there or if something that has been there is still there. Simple logic, duh!
When I was a kid I used to wonder if something existed if I did not look at it. It used to drive me nuts. I even used to turn my head fast to see if I could see nothing for a split second. I also used to wonder how much faster or slower I made the world turn when I walked. And if I walked long enough could I stop the world turning?
I've tried the 'don't look' trick with girlfriends when they wanted me to go shopping with them. I found women are exempt from Quantum Mechanics.
+1, they are always there even when they're not. Women...the only exception to every rule the universe could come up with 
Extractors are women, therefor they are the exception to every rule the universe (or devs) can come up with.. Nerf women tbh. They're overpowered.
___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS
It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Nobzy
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Posted - 2010.06.10 12:51:00 -
[14]
There's only one instance I know where the name Schr÷dinger appears, and that's
Schr÷dinger's Trap
"It's both male and female, until you pull down its pants."
And god I hate ppl like that.
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Illwill Bill
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2010.06.10 15:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
I don't like being put in a box.
Don't worry, it's not worse than warping to a random gate in Rancer. 
Additionally, it really infuriates me, when people use some pointless rant about signatures as a sig. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.06.10 15:35:00 -
[16]
You all lost me at Quarry... 
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Hophmann
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.06.10 15:43:00 -
[17]
This thread is pure quantum mechanic. Would it be here or not? you gotta love its way!
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.10 17:46:00 -
[18]
Pretty much everything in this thread is wrong.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.10 18:04:00 -
[19]
Cat lost me at box
(Just kidding)
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Blacklight Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.06.10 18:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: mingmin
Well no one asks what the cat thinks!!!!
To the cat it's not quantum, so why should we assume in our vain human way that because we dont know the answer, we'll call it quantum.
The cat knows the answer, so it's cleverer than you, and the cats called Einstein and knows all about relativity, now give it a bowl of milk and hang your head in shame!!
...but has anyone given thought to the fact that the cat is affected by a variation of Schrodinger's theory..."Schrodinger's People" where the people are simultaneously alive and dead. Yet, when it looks out of the box, it sees the people either alive or dead, not both alive and dead.
...just sayin'. 
(The views expressed may not be those of Blacklight Inc.) |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.10 18:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Extractor cycles and resource depletion are not the same thing.
QFT.
The OP is well written, but based upon flawed logic. The cycle and set amount of the extractor have no relation to the amount of resource available. The extractor is set for a certain amount and then stops when it extracts that. This "set amount" does not define how much resource there is in the "hole". It could be 100 times the "set amount" of the extractor. Nor does the "set amount" of the extractor define the refill rate of the "hole" which could easily keep pace with the maximum extraction rate of one extractor.
Full data is not available to the players, but at a guess I'd have to say it's going to take way more than one extractor to empty a resource.
Regards,
Windjammer
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