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Rezard Minmatar Fornax Chemica	Posted - 2010.06.13 11:23:00 - [61] This, I agree, specially on the fonts and the neocom.
Gritstone The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.06.13 11:36:00 - [62] Overall a constructive post by the OP. With some of the caveats already mentioned (no to auto mining, auto shooting etc) I think you raise some valid points. However with time you sort of become used to EVE's shortcomings and it's strengths are such that you begin overlook them. Although the Drone window having to be manually expanded every time still irks me!
Orithien Veladorn ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2010.06.13 16:41:00 - [63] Edited by: Orithien Veladorn on 13/06/2010 16:42:56 I agree with most of what the OP said about the UI (not really about the rest, though). There's no denying that when i began playing Eve after having spent some years in more recent MMOs, i couldn't help but be struck at how old-school some things in the game are. OP is right about the UI: even though its plain and neat looks are nice, it's often difficult to read and is often tedious to use, mainly because it relies heavily on the mouse, not to mention its "unfinished" aspect, like the Drone window thing... If there's one thing that turns people away from the game in their early Eve days, it's probably the UI. It's too bad, really, because Eve is really a great MMO once you get past that. Thanks for the constructive criticism Wilet. I hope that CCP realizes some day that they could probably vastly expand their playerbase by revamping the UI. Of course, i might as well spit in the wind...
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:05:00 - [64] Edited by: V''hellu on 13/06/2010 17:09:13 Originally by: Wilet Fox Some larger-scale observations: I think some people become so immersed in the game that they don't want anything to change. Sometimes they want all players to have to suffer through the tedium that they suffered through. It gets to the point where, not only do they accept the tedium, but they begin to value it. They perceive it as productive work (in the realm of the game). They vehemently resist any idea of automating this "effort", and the "skill" it requires. They lash out at players who prefer fun, interesting actions, calling them "lazy." Players who aren't "lazy," and who are willing to mindlessly click the same buttons over and over, are enabled to gain a significant advantage (financially, at least) over players who prefer fun. Shocking, right? People preferring fun in a game is just over the head of most old eve players. There's a thread in the skill discussion section of this forum where people are actually supporting learning skills because of this tedium involved in training learning skills. Can you believe that?? I'll go a step further than what you're saying. These people are stupid and need to stop playing video games, period. They need to go do something more productive if they want to do tedious and boring things.
Messoroz	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:19:00 - [65] Quote: I'll go a step further than what you're saying. These people are stupid and need to stop playing video games, period. They need to go do something more productive if they want to do tedious and boring things. Maybe what is boring to you is fun to others? (Though not training skills :P) But with the UI, the thoughts of something flashy new age doesn't fit eve, your a pod pilot connected to the ship with gigabytes of data being streamed to your head with no actual vision or sense of the outside besides what is streamed to you by the ship's sensors.
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:25:00 - [66] Nah. I don't particularly like the gameplay of turn-based RPG. Some people like that. Whatever floats their boat. Some people like to get into a muddy lake and pull a catfish out of the water with their hand. You know, noodling. Whatever floats their boat. But no. Pushing buttons and waiting is not fun. You'd have to be VERY easily entertained if you find sitting there and pushing buttons and waiting to push another button fun. The same goes for skill training. It's not fun.
Pennwisedom Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:17:00 - [67] Edited by: Pennwisedom on 13/06/2010 18:20:00 Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Amitious Turkey I agree. But the magic of the game is still not lost on me (been playing 7 years). CCP's a small corp, maybe they're short on people to fix the little stuff. What with two expansions a year, and then DUST coming. If anyone's got programming skill, maybe they should look in on volunteer work or a job from CCP. SPECIFICALLY to fix the UI CCP is a small corp? Basic math FTW! 320,000 paid accounts reported in the QEN the other day. 320,000 * 15 = 58 million dollars a year. PI looks like it was made by a college student in his dorm room over a weekend in Flash. They've got the $ to get stuff done, but would rather dump it into an FPS that will probably go desolate after 6 months than take care of the people who make the company a success (us.) Oh, and they are starting another MMO with our money and poking along with incarna which will likely be released the winter after never. The problem isn't the UI (that's A problem not THE problem) the problem is CCP not caring about the customers. Yes, clearly gross income is the way to judge a company. You sir, are a true economic genius. Not only that, but your $15, being roughly .00000000001% of that, gets you a seat on the board of directors. By the way, a "big" company for example, like ExxonMobil, has an operating income of almost $35 billion and assets in excess of $200 billion.
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:34:00 - [68] Originally by: V'hellu Nah. I don't particularly like the gameplay of turn-based RPG. Some people like that. Whatever floats their boat. Some people like to get into a muddy lake and pull a catfish out of the water with their hand. You know, noodling. Whatever floats their boat. But no. Pushing buttons and waiting is not fun. You'd have to be VERY easily entertained if you find sitting there and pushing buttons and waiting to push another button fun. The same goes for skill training. It's not fun. As is already said in this thread, for some it is fun, for some it is not. However, there are probably hundreds of games around, which fit your definition of fun more precisely (I am not going to discuss which fun is more "worthy", it is pointless. All of them are.) Then, what is your problem exactly ?
Inairin	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:42:00 - [69] OP is right. The UI needs to go and something better to take its place. I'm not quitting over it, but it's a bloody shame that a game as good looking as eve have such a ugly and intrusive UI, it's comparable to dressing Michenagelos David, a splendid work of art, in a burka. Almost. The easiest solution to this problem would be to simply open up the UI elements to player designs(as lets face it, different players and playstyles will prefer different UI setups). And while at it, add some dynamic functions to the camera too, allowing for some more cinematic eve footage.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.13 19:18:00 - [70] Kinda opinionated for someone who has only played about 15-16 days. Try 3 months. In that time you may be able to help with suggestions instead of just basing it off of other gaming experience that is not EVE.
Gribzor	Posted - 2010.06.13 19:31:00 - [71] Dont know if it aint posted yet.. but DONT sub.. the LAG is EPIX after the last expansion :( :( I really like the game.. but the lag makes is impossible
Amarante Idama Gallente Drunken Armed Pilots G String University	Posted - 2010.06.13 19:42:00 - [72] Originally by: Wilet Fox I have to manually stack the unloaded ammo. Why isn't there a Stack Automatically option? There is. Right click>stack all.
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.06.13 20:08:00 - [73] Originally by: Ildryn Kinda opinionated for someone who has only played about 15-16 days. Try 3 months. In that time you may be able to help with suggestions instead of just basing it off of other gaming experience that is not EVE. You shouldn't have to play a game for 3 months to be able to get into it. It should be fun from the start, and it wouldn't be too hard to make it fun from the start either.
RatKnight1 Gallente Mahdi Followers	Posted - 2010.06.13 20:09:00 - [74] I agree with most of this. No to the auto shooting... what if I have fleet/corp members targeted for rep? Um, no to the auto mining, but it would be nice to see something that made mining less boring (I have been doing PI while I am mining, which is quite interesting to do...). Other then that, these are mostly all great suggestions! Signed. Rat [url=http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=RatKnight1][/u
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.06.13 20:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Di Mulle Originally by: V'hellu Nah. I don't particularly like the gameplay of turn-based RPG. Some people like that. Whatever floats their boat. Some people like to get into a muddy lake and pull a catfish out of the water with their hand. You know, noodling. Whatever floats their boat. But no. Pushing buttons and waiting is not fun. You'd have to be VERY easily entertained if you find sitting there and pushing buttons and waiting to push another button fun. The same goes for skill training. It's not fun. As is already said in this thread, for some it is fun, for some it is not. However, there are probably hundreds of games around, which fit your definition of fun more precisely (I am not going to discuss which fun is more "worthy", it is pointless. All of them are.) Then, what is your problem exactly ? When jumpgate evolution and black prophecy come out, I'm going to definitely try those. Black prophecy has a funny FAQ where people ask if it's like eve online. The answer: "Black Prophecy is a Massively Multiplayer Online Space Shooter with role-play elements focussing on fast and exciting real-time combat space battles. Our approach is to provide quick and easy game fun without the necessity to develop your character over months. So besides the fact that both games play in space, they do not have much more in common." So they pretty much insulted eve's slow-paced tedious start and crappy mission/mining system right off the bat. I mean, honestly, how can you find missions or mining fun? Keep in mind, there's a thin line between having fun with something and just being addicted to it. If you're just addicted to it, then your opinion is void on the subject.
Amitious Turkey Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.06.13 20:29:00 - [76] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Amitious Turkey I agree. But the magic of the game is still not lost on me (been playing 7 years). CCP's a small corp, maybe they're short on people to fix the little stuff. What with two expansions a year, and then DUST coming. If anyone's got programming skill, maybe they should look in on volunteer work or a job from CCP. SPECIFICALLY to fix the UI CCP is a small corp? Basic math FTW! 320,000 paid accounts reported in the QEN the other day. 320,000 * 15 = 58 million dollars a year. PI looks like it was made by a college student in his dorm room over a weekend in Flash. They've got the $ to get stuff done, but would rather dump it into an FPS that will probably go desolate after 6 months than take care of the people who make the company a success (us.) Oh, and they are starting another MMO with our money and poking along with incarna which will likely be released the winter after never. The problem isn't the UI (that's A problem not THE problem) the problem is CCP not caring about the customers. Maybe they have the money but not enough people? shrugs It was a theory. But considering all the stuff they're doing, I'm not surprised that the "little things" are missed. If they didn't care about the game or the customers, they wouldn't bother at all with adding/tweaking stuff (They DO still do bug fixes, eh?). So in some measure, they care. In what order they care (money, the game, the customers), is probably the better thing to look at here. Seriously though, what's up with the whining? Haunting the forums since '03 BECAUSE OF FALCONDUST! Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3 NAVIGATOR <3
RatKnight1 Gallente Mahdi Followers	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:00:00 - [77] Well, I think something that would make the customers feel a little more listened to would be if CCP actually responded to threads like this about little issues, instead of only talking on the big idea threads. I think that is why so much of the customer base feels alienated, because we feel as if CCP doesn't listen (maybe because they don't?) Rat [url=http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=RatKnight1][/u
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:36:00 - [78] Originally by: Cadde CCP, please dedicate an expansion to just fixing stuff we already have. Proper balancing och certain modules and the likes, overhauled UI, better game backbones, more hotkeys, less tedium, more entertaining "grind activities" and so on. You know, at this point I think they've loaded so many things on that they would have to dedicate a few of expansions just to finish it. Though, I honestly think they could do the drone menu in a single random patch. I'm not sure why they haven't bothered, but I understand the point.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Menkaure Originally by: Mathias Black Originally by: Ranger 1 1: The UI is due for an update again (it has had several in the past). Wha? The UI's been exactly the same since the game released. Unless you mean adding more buttons to the neocom when they add new features? Eh. I hope this is sarcasm.... UI has been updated a few times indeed. Thank god we don't have this one still. Incidentally, there's quite a few 2003 screenshots of the game here - makes some interesting viewing. And to the main topic.... I really have no problem with the current UI the way it is. It's simple, useful, customizable and unique. There are a few minor niggles, but I still kinda like it. That said I have had 7 years to get used to it. Thank you Menkaure, I was afraid I was going to have to dig up old screen shots myself. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:28:00 - [80] Originally by: V'hellu Originally by: Ildryn Kinda opinionated for someone who has only played about 15-16 days. Try 3 months. In that time you may be able to help with suggestions instead of just basing it off of other gaming experience that is not EVE. You shouldn't have to play a game for 3 months to be able to get into it. It should be fun from the start, and it wouldn't be too hard to make it fun from the start either. It was for me. Maybe this game is not for you. If your measure of fun is the ui and gui maybe you should go play Vector TD. Eve is always updated...these problems you are talking about wont exist forever. If they do it isnt that big a deal.
Valzier	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:36:00 - [81] SLASH AGREE. Btw can I has your ISK?
V'hellu	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: V'hellu Originally by: Ildryn Kinda opinionated for someone who has only played about 15-16 days. Try 3 months. In that time you may be able to help with suggestions instead of just basing it off of other gaming experience that is not EVE. You shouldn't have to play a game for 3 months to be able to get into it. It should be fun from the start, and it wouldn't be too hard to make it fun from the start either. It was for me. Maybe this game is not for you. If your measure of fun is the ui and gui maybe you should go play Vector TD. Eve is always updated...these problems you are talking about wont exist forever. If they do it isnt that big a deal. I'm lost as to how I ever said the ui has to do with the fun of this game. I also wonder how people in this game always make fun of WoW players when there are people who actually enjoy missions and mining in this game. WoW quests are more in-depth than the freaking missions and mining that you have to start out with are. You might as well have fun with putting a t.v. dinner in the microwave and setting the timer, since missions and mining are such boring tasks that don't require any use of your brain.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.06.13 23:08:00 - [83] We know the mission content is terrible. That's why we usually recommend people who want that kind of stuff go play a game designed for it. There's so much more to the game than that but some people just don't see it or don't want anything to do with it. Eve ain't about running missions. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.13 23:09:00 - [84] Originally by: Wilet Fox I think some people become so immersed in the game that they don't want anything to change. Sometimes they want all players to have to suffer through the tedium that they suff Lol. Perception at 100 already? Burn the witch in accordance with Bitter Old Veteran Protocol 11/b.
EyeCeeYou	Posted - 2010.06.13 23:42:00 - [85] The game is what, 7 or 8 years old at this point? Its got small change built up on small change over all that time. Major changes now are nearly impossible because you simply cannot track the effects that even little (but universal) tweaks will have across the board. What they need to do is start over and build Eve 2.0. Bigger. Better. Faster. Harder.
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub	Posted - 2010.06.13 23:55:00 - [86] Please contact me in game for an easier leaving eve departure Rates vary -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!!
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.14 00:28:00 - [87] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia CCP is much more interested in touting "the next best thing" than it is with improving on it's established product It's nothing new and it's hard to find a thread where it doesn't enter the discussion at some point. It's also pushing away their more time tested and loyal customers. The problem with always pandering to people that love "the next best thing" is, eventually, "the next best thing" isn't going to be your game. CCP does need to bone up and improve established elements of the game instead of new content and expansions. If they did I'm sure it would impress enough people to get older people active again and still bring in new players. Q F T !!!
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.06.14 03:11:00 - [88] Edited by: Balsak on 14/06/2010 03:13:19 Originally by: V'hellu When jumpgate evolution and black prophecy come out, I'm going to definitely try those. Black prophecy has a funny FAQ where people ask if it's like eve online. The answer: "Black Prophecy is a Massively Multiplayer Online Space Shooter with role-play elements focussing on fast and exciting real-time combat space battles. Our approach is to provide quick and easy game fun without the necessity to develop your character over months. So besides the fact that both games play in space, they do not have much more in common." So they pretty much insulted eve's slow-paced tedious start and crappy mission/mining system right off the bat. I mean, honestly, how can you find missions or mining fun? Keep in mind, there's a thin line between having fun with something and just being addicted to it. If you're just addicted to it, then your opinion is void on the subject. Do you know anything about Reakktor as a game dev ? If their previous game, Neocron, is any indication of how Black Prophecy is then you are in for one fun time. LOL. Look forward to game with some pretty good ideas but implemented extremely poorly and riddled with bugs everywhere in the game. It will never work right and then they will release a patch and call the game Black Prophecy 2 and charge people to buy it again, just like they did with Neocron. Don't believe me ? I played Neocron as my first MMO for several months before Eve came out. Think I know nothing about the game and the company in its current state ? I still have access to the game for free since their latest publisher and billing company ditched them. The game is the same as it was back in '02. So yeah, thinking either of those games is going to do anything special is a horrible pipe dream at best. You would be better off spending your money playing Star Trek if you must have a space sci-fi MMO. Now as far as Eve being boring for you. Instead of bashing the parts of the game you find boring try going doing something in the game you actually enjoy. Nothing says you have to mine, mission run or sit in station watching your skills train.
Astro Nerd	Posted - 2010.06.14 05:01:00 - [89] Edited by: Astro Nerd on 14/06/2010 05:02:39 Originally by: Balsak Edited by: Balsak on 14/06/2010 03:13:19 Look forward to game with some pretty good ideas but implemented extremely poorly and riddled with bugs everywhere in the game. It will never work right and then they will release a patch and call the game Black Prophecy 2 and charge people to buy it again, just like they did with Neocron. Don't believe me ? I played Neocron as my first MMO for several months before Eve came out. Think I know nothing about the game and the company in its current state ? I still have access to the game for free since their latest publisher and billing company ditched them. The game is the same as it was back in '02. So yeah, thinking either of those games is going to do anything special is a horrible pipe dream at best. You would be better off spending your money playing Star Trek if you must have a space sci-fi MMO. Now as far as Eve being boring for you. Instead of bashing the parts of the game you find boring try going doing something in the game you actually enjoy. Nothing says you have to mine, mission run or sit in station watching your skills train. You go on and on insulting the developer of one of the games, group both together, and call them bad before they have been released. How does your experience with one developer have anything to do with the other? You say black prophecy is a waste of money when the game will be free to play. It won't hurt to try the thing. I agree it will probably suck but that doesn't mean it's not worth checking out when it costs you nothing. STO sucks. To the OP's post: I agree! It seems that the game was not designed with OOP in mind so any time they change something it's a big deal. I'm thinking they feel that the only way to make it better is to make eve 2.0 and since a large part of the player base finds the current ui fine they won't change anything. Really, this game will survive for many years as-is even if they never release another x-pack. Meanwhile, CCP will put out dust and make money off that while they develop eve 2.0. This could be a good thing if they plan on keeping all of our character progression and just replacing all the netcode, ui, graphics engine, etc... edit: spelling! On a more pleasant note: I <3 boobs.
Wilet Fox	Posted - 2010.06.14 05:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Messoroz But with the UI, the thoughts of something flashy new age doesn't fit eve, your a pod pilot connected to the ship with gigabytes of data being streamed to your head with no actual vision or sense of the outside besides what is streamed to you by the ship's sensors. I'm not sure what you mean by "flashy new age," but remember, we are actually human beings sitting in front of a screen with two buttons and a mouse. :) Originally by: Ildryn Kinda opinionated for someone who has only played about 15-16 days. Try 3 months. In that time you may be able to help with suggestions instead of just basing it off of other gaming experience that is not EVE. Well, it doesn't take 3 months to see things that need to be fixed. In fact, if such serious shortcomings are obvious in only a couple of weeks, I'd say that indicates an even bigger problem. Originally by: Amarante Idama Originally by: Wilet Fox I have to manually stack the unloaded ammo. Why isn't there a Stack Automatically option? There is. Right click>stack all. No, that's still manual. I mean a game setting that always stacks items automatically, without my intervention. That would save so many clicks, it's not even funny. Originally by: Ildryn It was for me. Maybe this game is not for you. If your measure of fun is the ui and gui maybe you should go play Vector TD. Eve is always updated...these problems you are talking about wont exist forever. If they do it isnt that big a deal. They won't? How many years have they been around? :) My measure of fun simply does not include having to do battle with the interface when I'm trying to battle the enemy (or organize my items, or make ISK to support PvP, etc.) Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki We know the mission content is terrible. That's why we usually recommend people who want that kind of stuff go play a game designed for it. There's so much more to the game than that but some people just don't see it or don't want anything to do with it. Eve ain't about running missions. I agree with you: that's not what EVE is supposed to be about. That's not where its potential lies. But in order to afford interesting player interaction, you have to make ISK somehow, right? And being a pirate sounds like fun, but unless you're the best one ever, you're still going to lose often, and have to buy new ships. :) Originally by: EyeCeeYou The game is what, 7 or 8 years old at this point? Its got small change built up on small change over all that time. Major changes now are nearly impossible because you simply cannot track the effects that even little (but universal) tweaks will have across the board. What they need to do is start over and build Eve 2.0. Bigger. Better. Faster. Harder. That's a great idea. At the least, they ought to build a new client from scratch, even if the server doesn't change. Then they can integrate WiS/Ambulation/Incarna/name-of-the-month while they're at it.

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