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Ana'Lingus
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Posted - 2010.06.16 05:34:00 -
[61]
OP is a "good reson 4" passing an English class..
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.06.16 07:54:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Well at first you also got a mission that was basicly a lvl1. 70k lp in 3 minutes done with a velator and 1 hob. Yeah for QA CCP )
Which mission was that? I never got it working for Caldari agents. 
Best blitz mission I ever got was that one where you only need to take out a station, which spawns fighters and stuff when you shoot at it. Had 8 L2 neut towers iirc. Maybe 10. Took me about 10 minutes that one, with two chars.
3 minutes in a Velator sounds a bit better.
Also the one time I got lazy and didn't travel fit my blitz raven for it, of course a lone guy got an easy kill on the gate. Still, at the time it worked out to some 600m/h (300/char), undock to dock, just that one mission. Quite a bit above average isk/h so it was my favorite even if it was boring.
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Lyra Blazing
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Posted - 2010.06.16 08:39:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Well at first you also got a mission that was basicly a lvl1. 70k lp in 3 minutes done with a velator and 1 hob. Yeah for QA CCP )
Which mission was that? I never got it working for Caldari agents.
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=AlluringEmanations5
You only got the 70k lp at the beginning. Since anybody completed it quite fast. Just before they pulled it you got about 15k. But still nice for 3 minutes of work in a Velator.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2010.06.16 08:52:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Mella Elcus
Originally by: HowardStern
"Good Reson 4 High Sec Level 5's"
L1s got easy, so I moved to L2s.
L2s got easy, so I moved to L3s.
L3s got easy, so I moved to L4s.
L4s got easy, so I moved to L5s.
L5s got removed*, so that'll be that then. Eve was fun while it lasted.
*As far as I'm concerned. I don't want anyone to tell me how to spend my free. And I agree not to tell you how to spend your free time.
Well, I spend my free time watching my bot mine ice, and that's how I want to play this game. So if CCP bans me they are actually telling me, ME, how to spend my free time!!
Good argument there...
this is bad post imo.
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Derelicht
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Posted - 2010.06.16 09:56:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ana'Lingus
OP is a "good reson 4" passing an English class..
I see what you did there. I used to be one of those people, too.
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HowardStern
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Posted - 2010.06.16 09:59:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mella Elcus
Originally by: HowardStern
"Good Reson 4 High Sec Level 5's"
L1s got easy, so I moved to L2s.
L2s got easy, so I moved to L3s.
L3s got easy, so I moved to L4s.
L4s got easy, so I moved to L5s.
L5s got removed*, so that'll be that then. Eve was fun while it lasted.
*As far as I'm concerned. I don't want anyone to tell me how to spend my free. And I agree not to tell you how to spend your free time.
Well, I spend my free time watching my bot mine ice, and that's how I want to play this game. So if CCP bans me they are actually telling me, ME, how to spend my free time!!
Good argument there...
lol, is it possible that you really are that stupid?
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:59:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Well at first you also got a mission that was basicly a lvl1. 70k lp in 3 minutes done with a velator and 1 hob. Yeah for QA CCP )
Which mission was that? I never got it working for Caldari agents.
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=AlluringEmanations5
You only got the 70k lp at the beginning. Since anybody completed it quite fast. Just before they pulled it you got about 15k. But still nice for 3 minutes of work in a Velator.
Hehe, damn that's neato.
I must've started L5's only after they pulled it then.
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions
Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.06.16 15:09:00 -
[68]
my word the exact same post in two places, who'd have thought,
but yes if you want to quote numbers you need as a percentage of use,
for instance if 500 PVE ships were lost in high sec on missions out of 1000missions attempted thats a 50% loss rate, if its out of 500000 missions thats 0.1% and irrelevant,
the problem with statistics is if you only use statistics that seem to agree with you, you can make any case and have 'numbers' support it, 95% of all statistics are taken out of context and context is everything
additionally, people try the oh but it was in high for 3 years,
Getting it wrong for 3 years does not entitle a flaw to remain and i salute CCP for taking care of it
and lastly as someone wonderfully posted in the other copy of this thread
Loosing PVE ships in missions just proves you cant fit a ship, why should missions be moved around just cause some people cant fit and will suicide themselves by jumping into a fight they cant win,
(and no Missions dont have rats to blow people up, they are to set a minimum competency bar for getting the gain, hey look l5's come with a whole extra competency bar called evading players) and please let this be the only other copy of this thread,
Me? im just sitting here,
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.16 15:48:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Tippia on 16/06/2010 15:52:44
Originally by: Rip Minner
No Tippia it do's not make him stupid or a loser it just means he is not greedie or as all knowing as the next trader.
ài.e. stupid, if he's actually a trader. The whole point is to make money ù choosing not to make money means you're doing something wrong. And the fact that he lost the opportunity to make more money makes him ù as the very act implies ù a loser.
Quote:
Fact is Trader B makes isk without any risk just not as much isk as Trader A.
Fact is also that trader B is missing out on a ton of ISK due to the actions of trader A, and (since you continuously ignore that part of the equation) buyer A is losing a ton of ISK since he's being fooled by trader A. Either way, the competition is there, and it's against other players. There is no way around the fact that trading is PvP through and through.
And that's even without turning the tables on the situation: if trader B was genuinely happy with making 10+ less, he could have (re)placed his order at the same station as trader A and stolen the sale ù suddenly, he caused a 90% loss of value in A's stock, which may cause him to outright lose money because he can't match the price. Trader B will constantly put out orders that A (or someone else) picks up and then A can't sell his stuff at a profit because B's prices are always better.
Quote:
if Trading in High sec is pvp becouse of player cometition with other players then High sec gankers ganking Pimp mission ships for mods has every right to level 5 missions in high sec becouse he realy loses isk. And there is Player Competitive PvP activity happening in high sec with his Mission boat.
Non sequitur. The fact that trading is PvP does not mean that L5:s have any place in highsec. The ISK loss you're talking about is not a part of the mission ù it's a risk inherent in carting around valuable goods, regardless of where and why. The PvP happens completely separately from the mission-running. It's not a part of some competitive aspect of running missions ù you haven't lost your mission, after all, have you?
Quote:
And again by your same self standers for pvp risk high sec trading that high sec mission runers should get a pass for level 5 high sec missions as high sec gankers are inherently drawen to his pimp mission boat giving rise to inherent competitive PvP activity.
Same thing here: the risk has nothing to do with the mission; it has everything to do with hauling valuable cargo. You'd be just as much at risk if you were just showboating off of the Jita docking ramp. So no, it does not make PvE competitive (because then it wouldn't be PvE any more), and it certainly does not provide any kind of argument for why the out-of-whack risk-vs-reward of highsec L5:s should be allowed.
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Rip dont try to argue with Tippa. Her arguments are always pretty weak.
àwhich means they should be pretty easy to tear down, but instead people have to resort to ad hominems, presumably because their arguments are even worse (or just non-existent).
Quote:
Btw Tippa you can run lvl5s in a drake or a ishtar.
Yes? And? Shouldn't you direct that comment at Rip, who claims that it's really risky and that you need pimped ships? It seems like the very good counter-argument to that claim.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Miniemoo
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Posted - 2010.06.16 16:29:00 -
[70]
i am against level 5's in high sec purely for the fact that people who live in null sec have a lot harder time and put a lot more effort to actually make isk, taken getting logistics for ships brought down actually grinding the iskies as well.
what was it 6-8 mission for a guy with good skills and he gets enough LP for a navy raven and that person can log on when he likes. where as a person in null sec has to Grind his isk defend his space and be involved in political mumbo jumbo as well :P
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Lyra Blazing
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Posted - 2010.06.16 20:35:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Lyra Blazing on 16/06/2010 20:37:34
Quote:
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Rip dont try to argue with Tippa. Her arguments are always pretty weak.
àwhich means they should be pretty easy to tear down, but instead people have to resort to ad hominems, presumably because their arguments are even worse (or just non-existent).
They are but you just ignore all replys and repeat your weak arguments until your conterpart gives up. And then claim you have been right all along.
Quote:
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
Btw Tippa you can run lvl5s in a drake or a ishtar.
Yes? And? Shouldn't you direct that comment at Rip, who claims that it's really risky and that you need pimped ships? It seems like the very good counter-argument to that claim.
A i forgot your second trick quoting out of context. Yes you can do that but it takes ages. Very bright idea in lowsec. Even so i do agree with you that you dont need rattles to run lvl5s. Best would be a group of 4 or 5 rr bs. Maybe add a dedicated logistcs. But if you do that you might as well run lvl4s in highsec. Which all things considered is the much brighter idea now anyway. Unless you want to test out the badly designed lvl5s for a thrill.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:01:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Lyra Blazing
They are but you just ignore all replys and repeat your weak arguments until your conterpart gives up. And then claim you have been right all along.
àsuch as?
Quote:
A i forgot your second trick quoting out of context. Yes you can do that but it takes ages. Very bright idea in lowsec. Even so i do agree with you that you dont need rattles to run lvl5s.
No, I cut the quotes down so you know what I'm responding to. In this case, though, it's more a matter of me not quite understanding why you're addressing your comment to me since it goes off on a tangent that I have never touched, and rather seems to be an argument against what the OP is saying. I've not mentioned anything about what ships you need or should use. The OP has, partly by trying to generaliseà god knows whatà from a sample using T3 ships, partly by going on about how fitting expensive mods (and ships) somehow makes missions competitive.
Even so, I'd still argue that Drakes and Ishtars are actually excellent L5 implements: not only can they survive them, but as a group they have more than a enough DPS to finish them in short order. As an added bonus, a bunch of Drakes and Ishtars (and maybe even the odd logistic ship) doesn't scream "mission runner!!" quite so much ù it rather edges towards "roaming gang", which may keep the ebil pirates awayà or at least give them pause for a second (so you can dock up). That said, howeverà
Quote:
Best would be a group of 4 or 5 rr bs. Maybe add a dedicated logistcs. But if you do that you might as well run lvl4s in highsec.
Now, see, this is something I do agree with (hell, I've been banging on that drum for the last two years), but which is so rarely brought up nowadays: for missions that are supposedly indended to be done in groups, their rewards aren't really scaled up in such a way that running them in groups is a good idea. The payoff for doing them "the right way" just isn't there, and it comes as absolutely no surprise that highsec L4s are so much more popular as a result.
Nor do I feel that the balance the increased completion time since you will have interruptions. almost by very definition of where these missions are run. So even with the right group payment balance, you still have to compare it against the uninterruptable flow of L4s you can get out of a highsec hub. It doesn't take much until that constant flow of missions pays more than the interrupted flow of L5s (but then again, this is a hard thing to balance since "all" you need is a quiet lowsec system and suddenly your ISK cup overfloweth).
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
caboaddict
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:13:00 -
[73]
Rip you also need to factor in how many people inhabit each area (high, low, null) and provide a comparison of T3 loss per population percentage. Since I have never seen any data that identifies how many or what percentage of the player base resides solely or over 80% of the time in a given security set, we can't really prove my point. However, we know that there are more people in high sec than low sec which has more than null sec.
So when you divide the losses by the population you see that empire is much much safer than low and null sec further proving that lvl 5 missions should be in low/null sec to provide greater rewards for the greater risk.
how does losing a ship in a PvE present a risk to the player that demands higher mission rewards. The only reason a mission runner dies in PvE is when the mess up the aggro or underestimate the mission. In either case it's user error and should not require CCP to provide you with greater rewards which will more often than not only escalate the PvE ship loss statistic for those who are woefully unprepared for level 5 missions. My assumption is that CCP counts ship losses as a PvE loss when only NPC ships are involved in the loss. As soon as a ship is fired upon by a player it moves to PvP even if it happens in a mission....
tl;dr STFU, HTFU and realize highsec is carebear heaven and reality (and more profit) happens in .4 or less.
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Lyra Blazing
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:26:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Lyra Blazing on 16/06/2010 21:28:13
Quote:
It doesn't take much until that constant flow of missions pays more than the interrupted flow of L5s (but then again, this is a hard thing to balance since "all" you need is a quiet lowsec system and suddenly your ISK cup overfloweth).
Sure problem is there is no such thing as a quite lowsec mission hub. If all lvl5s are no taking place in lowsec it will take the pirates no time to catch up to ppl stupid enough to try running lvl5s in lowsec. And since it takes a very short time to scan them out, they either secure the system or will be killed. Read up on this thread :
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1320395
Missoners almost zero, Scanner a lot. Lowsec mission are just plain ****ty with the current scaning system. You have to be at a rather easy to figure out place, and you will loose standing if you dont get it done. Scaning and Explo is a much better buissnes. Or if you want to do mission its highsec for you.
Thats quite ok for me. I mission for standing in highsec. And i play around with explo in low or null. But placing lvl5s as they are now in lowsec mostly means that almost nobody going to run them.
Which from my point of view is not a big loss. I did quite a lot of them and its not like CCP realy did a good job on them. At least most of them still work not like cosmos or epic arcs.
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Ildryn
The Inf1dels
En Garde
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Posted - 2010.06.17 13:59:00 -
[75]
Level 5 missions were somewhat fixed.
Sooner or later they will be completely fixed.
You guys really should stop arguing about this.
The devs have spoken.
Level 5 missions were never intended for high sec.
Those of you that did them are lucky and should just move on.
Let them go.
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Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.17 16:14:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 17/06/2010 16:20:20
Originally by: Ildryn
Level 5 missions were somewhat fixed.
Sooner or later they will be completely fixed.
You guys really should stop arguing about this.
The devs have spoken.
Level 5 missions were never intended for high sec.
Those of you that did them are lucky and should just move on.
Let them go.
Truethfully I think your right Ildryn. We should just move on.
Edit: I have started Buff Low sec post but well I dont think thats going to happen and there trying hard as hell to force me out of high sec. I been to null sec dont like it already know that first hand wh are kk but there is to much time needed to do them some of us have lifes like work wife's kids. And the the only reason I can think of going to 0.0 would be for pirat fraction missions Witch by now I They hate me and well I hate pirats npc or other wise. So that dont realy leve me much o well. cross my fingers and hope for a better expation next time lol
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.18 07:21:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 18/06/2010 07:24:17
Edited by: Rip Minner on 18/06/2010 07:22:03
Rant... Quote:
Tippia you have your head so far up your own ars here I dont even realy know were to begin. I have already gone with your thinking that Trading is player Verses player compation. But Risk it is not. At best it is Mild very mild pvp. At best you mite if your very luck and find some 5th grader trading make there wallets go downwards reather then upwards.
If you wish to prove me wrong you have my name and my corps name I trade in High sec both Amarr and Caldie so plz come and make my wallet go backwards I dare you!
But I promise you can what you mite bealbe to do at best is slow the speed at witch my wallet go's up. Low sec pvp and Low sec missioning make your wallet go down not just up slower.
So even trying to claim Trading is even close to the same level of risk as low sec puts you in your own little world.
If you wish to chance my mind you have my toons name come make my Trading unprofitable plz show me I'm wrong. Make my wallet go backwards like low sec do's. And I will come back here and Show everyone I was wrong and show them you did in fact make my wallet go backwards with out trading me
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Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
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