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Svabbi k
   |
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:23:00 -
[1]
I was in this fight in hed-gp a few min ago, and i have never, ever, seen this much lag in a fight.
For example, i was orbiting Raid, that was flying some minmatar ceptor, and i was orbiting at my optimal range, with mwd turned off. And i shot him for 3 min. 2 of my shot registered and he lost about 60-70% shield. I mean this is just stupid.
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Svabbi k
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:23:00 -
[2]
I was in this fight in hed-gp a few min ago, and i have never, ever, seen this much lag in a fight.
For example, i was orbiting Raid, that was flying some minmatar ceptor, and i was orbiting at my optimal range, with mwd turned off. And i shot him for 3 min. 2 of my shot registered and he lost about 60-70% shield. I mean this is just stupid.
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Shredder
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Posted - 2004.12.14 22:28:00 -
[3]
Was a thread really needed for this? 
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Shredder
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:28:00 -
[4]
Was a thread really needed for this?
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Tholarim
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:33:00 -
[5]
SA did a good job, the lag was insane, ccp fix.
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Tholarim
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:33:00 -
[6]
SA did a good job, the lag was insane, ccp fix.
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olyyyyy
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:35:00 -
[7]
Lag was a nightmare... I jumped and woke up a few minutes later 1M km from stargate 
Tried to move... It took 2 mintes before I managed to move my ship...
I think we killed server ? 
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
olyyyyy
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:35:00 -
[8]
Lag was a nightmare... I jumped and woke up a few minutes later 1M km from stargate
Tried to move... It took 2 mintes before I managed to move my ship...
I think we killed server ?
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
Roger Dodger
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:36:00 -
[9]
I guess this explains why I lost my connection. 
__________________
Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
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Roger Dodger
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:36:00 -
[10]
I guess this explains why I lost my connection.
__________________
Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
|
Svabbi k
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:37:00 -
[11]
node offline now :P
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Svabbi k
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:37:00 -
[12]
node offline now :P
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LtFireball
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: LtFireball on 14/12/2004 23:00:01
delete me pls
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LtFireball
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 22:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: LtFireball on 14/12/2004 23:00:01
delete me pls
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Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:00:00 -
[15]
sorry this isnt about CA or SA. We meet there and i hoped for a good portion of fun. But what was delivered wasnt hot, but cold lag.
Sorry CCP, but its not easy to keep up the entusiasm for this game, when you could also watch TV. My UI ran fine. I had around 30 fps, but the server response was fubar.
I looked someone for 1min. Then it took 5 min to aktivate any modules. The it took me around 5 min again for warping away. Some ppl call for targets i cant find on my Overview, and thats not because the name wasnt nuderstandable. In 10 min of fighting i think i managed to shoot 10 shells of each gun.
Imidiatly after the fight, the node was dead. Sorry but you post about Hardwareupdate. But after every Hardwareupdate you do, the server is running less smooth. Are you sure, you buy the right upgrade or you downgrade the hardware instead?
I know this arent nice words, but the custumor arent pleased here. And that has nothing to do with ballancing or contant. But performance of the game, which is needed most. We already use clientimprovement like turn off sound and other things to tweak the game here.
Sorry but EVE is the only game i play without sound. Man we have the year 2005 and iam not playing with sound, because it lag the game to hell and back.
I know all my whining is for nothing and will be forgoten same second iam writing this, but iam that unpleased that i have to tell you my current opinion.
Teh game is cool, but battleperformance suck more than anything else.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
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Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:00:00 -
[16]
sorry this isnt about CA or SA. We meet there and i hoped for a good portion of fun. But what was delivered wasnt hot, but cold lag.
Sorry CCP, but its not easy to keep up the entusiasm for this game, when you could also watch TV. My UI ran fine. I had around 30 fps, but the server response was fubar.
I looked someone for 1min. Then it took 5 min to aktivate any modules. The it took me around 5 min again for warping away. Some ppl call for targets i cant find on my Overview, and thats not because the name wasnt nuderstandable. In 10 min of fighting i think i managed to shoot 10 shells of each gun.
Imidiatly after the fight, the node was dead. Sorry but you post about Hardwareupdate. But after every Hardwareupdate you do, the server is running less smooth. Are you sure, you buy the right upgrade or you downgrade the hardware instead?
I know this arent nice words, but the custumor arent pleased here. And that has nothing to do with ballancing or contant. But performance of the game, which is needed most. We already use clientimprovement like turn off sound and other things to tweak the game here.
Sorry but EVE is the only game i play without sound. Man we have the year 2005 and iam not playing with sound, because it lag the game to hell and back.
I know all my whining is for nothing and will be forgoten same second iam writing this, but iam that unpleased that i have to tell you my current opinion.
Teh game is cool, but battleperformance suck more than anything else.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
|
Elfin Carrent
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Elfin Carrent on 14/12/2004 23:28:52
@ Loka
Excellent points loka..just says it all
The battle at HED-GP tonight was bad - LAG was too much - and now we have crashed the server. Please CCP sort this out. PvP is the best part of the game and its been bad for a long time.
I fear very soon people will just get ****ed with this. I am one for sure.
Everyone is complaining and not happy.
Im gonna petition and i suggest everyone else that has lost their ships do this too.
BTW congrats to SE & friends for the fight. You guys did well for the part i saw.
Oh..who mentioned World of Warcraft... is it good ?
Alfony, Supremacy - Curse Alliance
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Elfin Carrent
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Elfin Carrent on 14/12/2004 23:28:52
@ Loka
Excellent points loka..just says it all
The battle at HED-GP tonight was bad - LAG was too much - and now we have crashed the server. Please CCP sort this out. PvP is the best part of the game and its been bad for a long time.
I fear very soon people will just get ****ed with this. I am one for sure.
Everyone is complaining and not happy.
Im gonna petition and i suggest everyone else that has lost their ships do this too.
BTW congrats to SE & friends for the fight. You guys did well for the part i saw.
Oh..who mentioned World of Warcraft... is it good ?
Alfony, Supremacy - Curse Alliance
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Heid banger
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:32:00 -
[19]
ccp 1 - clients 0
Nemesis : Retributive justice in its execution or outcome
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Heid banger
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Posted - 2004.12.14 23:32:00 -
[20]
ccp 1 - clients 0
Nemesis : Retributive justice in its execution or outcome
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The Monk
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Posted - 2004.12.14 23:43:00 -
[21]
"Cops dont kill people, CCP do."
-----------------------
╔╤╗╒╕╔╕║║/
║│║╘╛║╘╝║\
----------------------- |
The Monk
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:43:00 -
[22]
"Cops dont kill people, CCP do."
-----------------------
╔╤╗╒╕╔╕║║/
║│║╘╛║╘╝║\
----------------------- |
Krenshaw
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:46:00 -
[23]
I always love hearing about lag. I had the unfortunate distinction of being the only SE casualty today and I never even got to see the fight. Entering space was replaced with "your ship is out of control" and I snapped the autopilot on to get the pod out. It happens. I don't expect that CCP will replace ships and neither should anyone else. To my knowledge they never have replaced ships lost due to lag and lag has been a huge problem since I started beta in 12/2002.
What for centuries raised man above the beast is not the cudgel but the irresistible power of unarmed truth...B. Pasternak |
Krenshaw
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:46:00 -
[24]
I always love hearing about lag. I had the unfortunate distinction of being the only SE casualty today and I never even got to see the fight. Entering space was replaced with "your ship is out of control" and I snapped the autopilot on to get the pod out. It happens. I don't expect that CCP will replace ships and neither should anyone else. To my knowledge they never have replaced ships lost due to lag and lag has been a huge problem since I started beta in 12/2002.
What for centuries raised man above the beast is not the cudgel but the irresistible power of unarmed truth...B. Pasternak |
Reverend Necrona
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:58:00 -
[25]
 Originally by: The Monk
"Cops dont kill people, CCP do."
I actually laughed.... which is sad ;/
Reverend Necrona |
Reverend Necrona
|
Posted - 2004.12.14 23:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Monk
"Cops dont kill people, CCP do."
I actually laughed.... which is sad ;/
Reverend Necrona |
Diamond Dog
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:13:00 -
[27]
Well at least my game didn't lock up like it did...
I for one consider pvp to more than 100+ ships battles...
I LOVE skirmishes and I prefer them over fleet battles as I find them to be nothing but slugfests.
The servers been pretty much fubar since the db maintenence
________________________________________
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Diamond Dog
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:13:00 -
[28]
Well at least my game didn't lock up like it did...
I for one consider pvp to more than 100+ ships battles...
I LOVE skirmishes and I prefer them over fleet battles as I find them to be nothing but slugfests.
The servers been pretty much fubar since the db maintenence
________________________________________
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Teelmaster
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:16:00 -
[29]
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
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Teelmaster
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:16:00 -
[30]
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
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djubrica
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:26:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
hehe, what is this "no huge blob" concept you speak off? 
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djubrica
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
hehe, what is this "no huge blob" concept you speak off?
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Lodhi
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: olyyyyy
Lag was a nightmare... I jumped and woke up a few minutes later 1M km from stargate
Tried to move... It took 2 mintes before I managed to move my ship...
I think we killed server ?
Neh it were us that bumped 8 ppl at the same time at a gate ;)
Cowboy > Mal you stay and daddy CB will buy you a new white and pink dress with lace |
Lodhi
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: olyyyyy
Lag was a nightmare... I jumped and woke up a few minutes later 1M km from stargate
Tried to move... It took 2 mintes before I managed to move my ship...
I think we killed server ?
Neh it were us that bumped 8 ppl at the same time at a gate ;)
Cowboy > Mal you stay and daddy CB will buy you a new white and pink dress with lace |
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
And I (I have a partial Comp Sci degree) think the whole problem is either because the server hardware cant handle sending the data regarding 100+ ships in one grid to each of the 100+ people (You have this kind of problem in most MMO's). Or else CCP has some bottle necks in their code that kills servers when large battles happen (we had this kind of lag in Nonni last week with 180 people in system). CCP can fix the software, but if its a hardware problem (simply not enough bandwidth to push out all the information) then there is not much that can be done.
So if you want fun till this problem can be fixed, stop using huge blob fleets. Do you want CCP to have to hard code restrictions on how many of each alliance can be in a system (like in Planetside)? Or do you have the maturity to limit yourselves, and fight several simultaneous battles?
I think if this was a simple problem CCP would have fixed it months ago.
--------------------------------------------------
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 00:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
And I (I have a partial Comp Sci degree) think the whole problem is either because the server hardware cant handle sending the data regarding 100+ ships in one grid to each of the 100+ people (You have this kind of problem in most MMO's). Or else CCP has some bottle necks in their code that kills servers when large battles happen (we had this kind of lag in Nonni last week with 180 people in system). CCP can fix the software, but if its a hardware problem (simply not enough bandwidth to push out all the information) then there is not much that can be done.
So if you want fun till this problem can be fixed, stop using huge blob fleets. Do you want CCP to have to hard code restrictions on how many of each alliance can be in a system (like in Planetside)? Or do you have the maturity to limit yourselves, and fight several simultaneous battles?
I think if this was a simple problem CCP would have fixed it months ago.
--------------------------------------------------
|
Moridan
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 01:06:00 -
[37]
Quote:
I think if this was a simple problem CCP would have fixed it months ago.
most likely the most true thing i've read in a while.
ships + missles + drones, all with 100 clients sending in disparate info, along with damage calculation, etc., all make for a busy system. I say we work to donate some superfast linux clusters to CCP so we can fight HUGE battles :)
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
|
Moridan
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 01:06:00 -
[38]
Quote:
I think if this was a simple problem CCP would have fixed it months ago.
most likely the most true thing i've read in a while.
ships + missles + drones, all with 100 clients sending in disparate info, along with damage calculation, etc., all make for a busy system. I say we work to donate some superfast linux clusters to CCP so we can fight HUGE battles :)
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
|
CmdoColin
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 01:58:00 -
[39]
Yeah shame it all went fubar at the end. I was on from after down time, and was involved in the build up from there. The slideshow that followed was a bummer.
The build up was seriously entertaining. Cheers to everyone involved from all sides.
Hopefully the lag can be sorted - didn't someone say that personal computers in every home was a stupid idea once?
Audita et altera pars |
CmdoColin
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 01:58:00 -
[40]
Yeah shame it all went fubar at the end. I was on from after down time, and was involved in the build up from there. The slideshow that followed was a bummer.
The build up was seriously entertaining. Cheers to everyone involved from all sides.
Hopefully the lag can be sorted - didn't someone say that personal computers in every home was a stupid idea once?
Audita et altera pars |
slip66
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 02:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
for a time in castor you were able to get some very nice large scale fights. fleet battles are the most fun imo we just havent been able to get back to that state and we all miss it :) Plus for the number of times CA and SA blob we do get some fights in.
|
slip66
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 02:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
for a time in castor you were able to get some very nice large scale fights. fleet battles are the most fun imo we just havent been able to get back to that state and we all miss it :) Plus for the number of times CA and SA blob we do get some fights in.
|
loozer
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 03:11:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Loka
sorry this isnt about CA or SA. We meet there and i hoped for a good portion of fun. But what was delivered wasnt hot, but cold lag.
Sorry CCP, but its not easy to keep up the entusiasm for this game, when you could also watch TV. My UI ran fine. I had around 30 fps, but the server response was fubar.
I looked someone for 1min. Then it took 5 min to aktivate any modules. The it took me around 5 min again for warping away. Some ppl call for targets i cant find on my Overview, and thats not because the name wasnt nuderstandable. In 10 min of fighting i think i managed to shoot 10 shells of each gun.
Imidiatly after the fight, the node was dead. Sorry but you post about Hardwareupdate. But after every Hardwareupdate you do, the server is running less smooth. Are you sure, you buy the right upgrade or you downgrade the hardware instead?
I know this arent nice words, but the custumor arent pleased here. And that has nothing to do with ballancing or contant. But performance of the game, which is needed most. We already use clientimprovement like turn off sound and other things to tweak the game here.
Sorry but EVE is the only game i play without sound. Man we have the year 2005 and iam not playing with sound, because it lag the game to hell and back.
I know all my whining is for nothing and will be forgoten same second iam writing this, but iam that unpleased that i have to tell you my current opinion.
Teh game is cool, but battleperformance suck more than anything else.
The (P)roblem is that CCP is probably slaved to Microsoft (Probably some lock in deal?)
If CCP would goto a Unix Cluster enviroment or 1 high end AS400 (IBM)and they were willing to dump the Microsoft SQL and get Oracle or something Capable of handling the stress, Then Im sure we would see a 500% increase in performance.
But until then the ball is in their court.
|
loozer
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 03:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Loka
sorry this isnt about CA or SA. We meet there and i hoped for a good portion of fun. But what was delivered wasnt hot, but cold lag.
Sorry CCP, but its not easy to keep up the entusiasm for this game, when you could also watch TV. My UI ran fine. I had around 30 fps, but the server response was fubar.
I looked someone for 1min. Then it took 5 min to aktivate any modules. The it took me around 5 min again for warping away. Some ppl call for targets i cant find on my Overview, and thats not because the name wasnt nuderstandable. In 10 min of fighting i think i managed to shoot 10 shells of each gun.
Imidiatly after the fight, the node was dead. Sorry but you post about Hardwareupdate. But after every Hardwareupdate you do, the server is running less smooth. Are you sure, you buy the right upgrade or you downgrade the hardware instead?
I know this arent nice words, but the custumor arent pleased here. And that has nothing to do with ballancing or contant. But performance of the game, which is needed most. We already use clientimprovement like turn off sound and other things to tweak the game here.
Sorry but EVE is the only game i play without sound. Man we have the year 2005 and iam not playing with sound, because it lag the game to hell and back.
I know all my whining is for nothing and will be forgoten same second iam writing this, but iam that unpleased that i have to tell you my current opinion.
Teh game is cool, but battleperformance suck more than anything else.
The (P)roblem is that CCP is probably slaved to Microsoft (Probably some lock in deal?)
If CCP would goto a Unix Cluster enviroment or 1 high end AS400 (IBM)and they were willing to dump the Microsoft SQL and get Oracle or something Capable of handling the stress, Then Im sure we would see a 500% increase in performance.
But until then the ball is in their court.
|
Bellon
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
|
Bellon
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:52:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
|
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 10:12:00 -
[47]
tbh ever since the so called lag fix they made, fleet battles has only been worse than they ever was...
"We brake for nobody"
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Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 10:12:00 -
[48]
tbh ever since the so called lag fix they made, fleet battles has only been worse than they ever was...
"We brake for nobody"
|
Thomas Epsilon
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 10:16:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Thomas Epsilon on 15/12/2004 10:19:35
I jumped into HED.. and my client stayed at SV5, but I still could see the people moving there and nothing happened. Then I relogged, and after some minutes, I found myself on a warp-out spot in HED  well it could have been worse of course, me getting destroyed
The most fun aspect in EVE.. and it's not working properly.
Let's hope the hardware upgrades will kick in soon.
|
Thomas Epsilon
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 10:16:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Thomas Epsilon on 15/12/2004 10:19:35
I jumped into HED.. and my client stayed at SV5, but I still could see the people moving there and nothing happened. Then I relogged, and after some minutes, I found myself on a warp-out spot in HED well it could have been worse of course, me getting destroyed
The most fun aspect in EVE.. and it's not working properly.
Let's hope the hardware upgrades will kick in soon.
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 10:25:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Bellon
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
this Fraps is showing the current situation perfectly. You were lucky not to get destroyed. Lol i heare myself saying iam not able to warp :(
Another problem was also that after CTD or relogging some BS warped to the gate instead to the safepsot, where they logged. Which lent to their destruction ofc.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 10:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bellon
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
this Fraps is showing the current situation perfectly. You were lucky not to get destroyed. Lol i heare myself saying iam not able to warp :(
Another problem was also that after CTD or relogging some BS warped to the gate instead to the safepsot, where they logged. Which lent to their destruction ofc.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
|
LoxyRider
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:15:00 -
[53]
Well i had 0-1fps for the whole fight but i did notice that apart from client lag my mods activated straight away and ship response was good. I got a ****ty gfx card so bad fps is normal. Perhaps there is some advantage to jumping in now?
And lol at that video, summed it up well.
-----
Eris Discordia; I think the proper term is <3
|
LoxyRider
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:15:00 -
[54]
Well i had 0-1fps for the whole fight but i did notice that apart from client lag my mods activated straight away and ship response was good. I got a ****ty gfx card so bad fps is normal. Perhaps there is some advantage to jumping in now?
And lol at that video, summed it up well.
-----
Eris Discordia; I think the proper term is <3
|
benwallace
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:19:00 -
[55]
hmm your the reason I couldn't play eve damn you limit your fleet battles to 100 players max both side combined
--------------------------
|
benwallace
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:19:00 -
[56]
hmm your the reason I couldn't play eve damn you limit your fleet battles to 100 players max both side combined
--------------------------
|
JimmySav
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:30:00 -
[57]
To all the smart alecs saying , "oooh dont blob up". answer this:
If the enemy is trying to bring a large amount of reinforcememnts somewhere, what are you going to do?
u can either fight them with 5 ships (to avoid lag), or an equal/larger number. OR you can wave them through and wish them good luck.
Blob wars are gonna be inevitable, between alliances that can field 60 ships each.
The first ever CA vs SA 100 man dingdong in HLW many moons ago, was amongst the most fun ive had. Yesterdays lag fiasco was a disgrace tho! It took me between 3-5 mins to actually be in state to even attempt to do anything with my ship after i jumped in.
Jim'll Fix it For You. ( and you and you!)
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JimmySav
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:30:00 -
[58]
To all the smart alecs saying , "oooh dont blob up". answer this:
If the enemy is trying to bring a large amount of reinforcememnts somewhere, what are you going to do?
u can either fight them with 5 ships (to avoid lag), or an equal/larger number. OR you can wave them through and wish them good luck.
Blob wars are gonna be inevitable, between alliances that can field 60 ships each.
The first ever CA vs SA 100 man dingdong in HLW many moons ago, was amongst the most fun ive had. Yesterdays lag fiasco was a disgrace tho! It took me between 3-5 mins to actually be in state to even attempt to do anything with my ship after i jumped in.
Jim'll Fix it For You. ( and you and you!)
|
Icarus100
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 12:37:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bellon
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
Can we have an Icelandic mirror for that one please?
-
My hair is ugly.. |
Icarus100
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 12:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Bellon
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
Can we have an Icelandic mirror for that one please?
-
My hair is ugly.. |
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 12:52:00 -
[61]
well 150 pilots in HED-GP local yesterday wasnt that bad either 
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 12:52:00 -
[62]
well 150 pilots in HED-GP local yesterday wasnt that bad either
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
|
Bala Dwinn
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 15:38:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Bellon
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
LOL, no more damning evidence of the pathetic performance of the servers can be found.
|
Bala Dwinn
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 15:38:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Bellon
Edited by: Bellon on 15/12/2004 09:55:42
evil electricians fraps of the lag can be found here:
www.bellon.nu/hed-lag.avi
LOL, no more damning evidence of the pathetic performance of the servers can be found.
|
Lowa
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 17:51:00 -
[65]
Oh oh oh oh!!! A Lag thread! Sweet!
Until someone actually talks to me and explain
how EVE is sending out data Im going to keep pushing
this story as I've done before.
EVE has a limited amount of byte sent out to each client.
This is so no one with a faster pipe will get an advantage.
(And so that you can play this game using a modem)
100+ clients at the same place asking about updates about
the same enviroment needs a fair deal bytes to be sent.
But it doesnt get sent. If you need lets say 1k of updates
every second to keep your client updated and you only get
500b you will lag. Multiply this by...a lot... and you get
the idea. Im sure there are other reasons as well but that is one theory at least.
Regarding the movie: ROFLMAO!!
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
Regards,
LOWA - deth to lag!
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Lowa
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 17:51:00 -
[66]
Oh oh oh oh!!! A Lag thread! Sweet!
Until someone actually talks to me and explain
how EVE is sending out data Im going to keep pushing
this story as I've done before.
EVE has a limited amount of byte sent out to each client.
This is so no one with a faster pipe will get an advantage.
(And so that you can play this game using a modem)
100+ clients at the same place asking about updates about
the same enviroment needs a fair deal bytes to be sent.
But it doesnt get sent. If you need lets say 1k of updates
every second to keep your client updated and you only get
500b you will lag. Multiply this by...a lot... and you get
the idea. Im sure there are other reasons as well but that is one theory at least.
Regarding the movie: ROFLMAO!!
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
Regards,
LOWA - deth to lag!
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:19:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Teelmaster
I think if this was a simple problem CCP would have fixed it months ago.
Like Afterburners/Propulsion? Missiles? Ship Bumps? Defenders? Mines? Gate Jams? Etc
Or they could fix a problem by making a more unpopular problem or re-introducing old bugs to new patches.
However, blobwars are indeed bad, but CCP have no-one to blame but themselves as their new game ethics dictate that this is how they the,selves envisage future combat esp with regards to how they want us all to join megacorps or alliances to lag one another to death and expect to pay for this service and call it fun and enjoyable.
I can think of no other game that is admittedly fun like eve, that has to put up with a 1/2 finished game constantly changing, where you have to disable most of the ingame options such as sound and/or gfx options thus annoying the majority of their player base, i find it quite unbelievable.
I think many (such as myself) expect this shuffling of gameplay to somehow all work its self out smoothly and efficiently in the end, and tbh, im doubting it will.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:19:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Teelmaster
I think if this was a simple problem CCP would have fixed it months ago.
Like Afterburners/Propulsion? Missiles? Ship Bumps? Defenders? Mines? Gate Jams? Etc
Or they could fix a problem by making a more unpopular problem or re-introducing old bugs to new patches.
However, blobwars are indeed bad, but CCP have no-one to blame but themselves as their new game ethics dictate that this is how they the,selves envisage future combat esp with regards to how they want us all to join megacorps or alliances to lag one another to death and expect to pay for this service and call it fun and enjoyable.
I can think of no other game that is admittedly fun like eve, that has to put up with a 1/2 finished game constantly changing, where you have to disable most of the ingame options such as sound and/or gfx options thus annoying the majority of their player base, i find it quite unbelievable.
I think many (such as myself) expect this shuffling of gameplay to somehow all work its self out smoothly and efficiently in the end, and tbh, im doubting it will.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:24:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 15/12/2004 18:23:54
Originally by: JimmySav
To all the smart alecs saying , "oooh dont blob up". answer this:
If the enemy is trying to bring a large amount of reinforcememnts somewhere, what are you going to do?
u can either fight them with 5 ships (to avoid lag), or an equal/larger number. OR you can wave them through and wish them good luck.
Blob wars are gonna be inevitable, between alliances that can field 60 ships each.
The first ever CA vs SA 100 man dingdong in HLW many moons ago, was amongst the most fun ive had. Yesterdays lag fiasco was a disgrace tho! It took me between 3-5 mins to actually be in state to even attempt to do anything with my ship after i jumped in.
I suppose this is what POS are for, anhialating everything in sight while the players all lag to death and appear in pods.
The rundown people are mentioning sounds very akin to the test that was made on sisi before patch deployment, it took me ages to gate through and do anything, everything was very very bad and slow, but the devs said this was due to server logging, if CCP are pushing everyone towards grouped/alliance/blob combat then surely it would have been wise to have made that move knowing your hardware/software could handle or manage it better.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:24:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 15/12/2004 18:23:54
Originally by: JimmySav
To all the smart alecs saying , "oooh dont blob up". answer this:
If the enemy is trying to bring a large amount of reinforcememnts somewhere, what are you going to do?
u can either fight them with 5 ships (to avoid lag), or an equal/larger number. OR you can wave them through and wish them good luck.
Blob wars are gonna be inevitable, between alliances that can field 60 ships each.
The first ever CA vs SA 100 man dingdong in HLW many moons ago, was amongst the most fun ive had. Yesterdays lag fiasco was a disgrace tho! It took me between 3-5 mins to actually be in state to even attempt to do anything with my ship after i jumped in.
I suppose this is what POS are for, anhialating everything in sight while the players all lag to death and appear in pods.
The rundown people are mentioning sounds very akin to the test that was made on sisi before patch deployment, it took me ages to gate through and do anything, everything was very very bad and slow, but the devs said this was due to server logging, if CCP are pushing everyone towards grouped/alliance/blob combat then surely it would have been wise to have made that move knowing your hardware/software could handle or manage it better.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
DarkAlpha
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:30:00 -
[71]
When everyone will stop writing stupid petitions every other second than maybe the lag will drop. Ever thought about it?
No forgiveness with out bloodshed! |
DarkAlpha
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:30:00 -
[72]
When everyone will stop writing stupid petitions every other second than maybe the lag will drop. Ever thought about it?
No forgiveness with out bloodshed! |
Saladin
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:09:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
Teel has got a point. Only move in a blob when you have 50 ships and the enemy is only one or 2. |
Saladin
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:09:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Teelmaster
Haven't you all realized the 100+ ship battles are all the same and just end up being HUGE lagfests? They havent fixed it, and it prolly won't be fixed. So why dont you do something smart and DONT RUN AROUND IN HUGE BLOBS!!! We all know how blobs end up. They are crap, complete utter crap.
Teel has got a point. Only move in a blob when you have 50 ships and the enemy is only one or 2. |
Bellon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 19:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lowa
Oh oh oh oh!!! A Lag thread! Sweet!
Regarding the movie: ROFLMAO!!
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
Regards,
LOWA - deth to lag!
bastard! :)
|
Bellon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 19:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Lowa
Oh oh oh oh!!! A Lag thread! Sweet!
Regarding the movie: ROFLMAO!!
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
Regards,
LOWA - deth to lag!
bastard! :)
|
Lowa
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 21:28:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Lowa on 16/12/2004 21:28:50
Originally by: Bellon
Originally by: Lowa
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
bastard! :)
Am I not correct?
Ok, lets do this, on Saturday I'll warp (get on top of a table and throw myself) on
you around 00:30 and we'll see what state I end up in...aaaaAAAKTA AJ SOM FAN!
Synes,
LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Lowa
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 21:28:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Lowa on 16/12/2004 21:28:50
Originally by: Bellon
Originally by: Lowa
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
bastard! :)
Am I not correct?
Ok, lets do this, on Saturday I'll warp (get on top of a table and throw myself) on
you around 00:30 and we'll see what state I end up in...aaaaAAAKTA AJ SOM FAN!
Synes,
LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Bellon
|
Posted - 2004.12.17 07:06:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Lowa
Edited by: Lowa on 16/12/2004 21:28:50
Originally by: Bellon
Originally by: Lowa
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
bastard! :)
Am I not correct?
Ok, lets do this, on Saturday I'll warp (get on top of a table and throw myself) on
you around 00:30 and we'll see what state I end up in...aaaaAAAKTA AJ SOM FAN!
Synes,
LOWA
hahahaha, sounds good to me! see ya there m8!
|
Bellon
|
Posted - 2004.12.17 07:06:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Lowa
Edited by: Lowa on 16/12/2004 21:28:50
Originally by: Bellon
Originally by: Lowa
And guys, I wouldnt warp on Bellon even if someone
insured me that I would get a new ship later on...
bastard! :)
Am I not correct?
Ok, lets do this, on Saturday I'll warp (get on top of a table and throw myself) on
you around 00:30 and we'll see what state I end up in...aaaaAAAKTA AJ SOM FAN!
Synes,
LOWA
hahahaha, sounds good to me! see ya there m8!
|
Tesk Malloc
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 02:14:00 -
[81]
Just a general reply to the several posters saying:
"Well why don't you just not blob up in the first place?"
This, in the current game is simply impossible, a group gets 10 ships, the enemy get 15. The group then gets 20 and then the enemy gets 25 and so on and so forth cold war style.
Yes, it would be nice to say "Hold on. Lets just place a max fleet size of 20 ships." But then any foe worth his salt will jump in anyway with their much, much greater numbers and wipe you out.
Personally I much prefer the smaller squad ops and avoid the massive fleet battles that just end in lag, dissatisfaction and usually a lost ship with nothing to do about it.
But unfortunately sometimes you just have to do it anyway.
Tesk Malloc - Hired Scum, Murderer and All Round Nasty Piece Of Work
"You can't love life too much. Everybody dies." |
Tesk Malloc
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 02:14:00 -
[82]
Just a general reply to the several posters saying:
"Well why don't you just not blob up in the first place?"
This, in the current game is simply impossible, a group gets 10 ships, the enemy get 15. The group then gets 20 and then the enemy gets 25 and so on and so forth cold war style.
Yes, it would be nice to say "Hold on. Lets just place a max fleet size of 20 ships." But then any foe worth his salt will jump in anyway with their much, much greater numbers and wipe you out.
Personally I much prefer the smaller squad ops and avoid the massive fleet battles that just end in lag, dissatisfaction and usually a lost ship with nothing to do about it.
But unfortunately sometimes you just have to do it anyway.
Tesk Malloc - Hired Scum, Murderer and All Round Nasty Piece Of Work
"You can't love life too much. Everybody dies." |
David Corbett
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 02:18:00 -
[83]
I agree -- lag makes fighting unbearable :(
...oh, and rather boring. For example, a massive 30-ship gate camp is annoying to be a member of, since if the enemy is asleep and walks into you, he's probably dead/run before you can even lock him :(
|
David Corbett
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 02:18:00 -
[84]
I agree -- lag makes fighting unbearable :(
...oh, and rather boring. For example, a massive 30-ship gate camp is annoying to be a member of, since if the enemy is asleep and walks into you, he's probably dead/run before you can even lock him :(
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 02:51:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tesk Malloc
Just a general reply to the several posters saying:
"Well why don't you just not blob up in the first place?"
This, in the current game is simply impossible, a group gets 10 ships, the enemy get 15. The group then gets 20 and then the enemy gets 25 and so on and so forth cold war style.
Yes, it would be nice to say "Hold on. Lets just place a max fleet size of 20 ships." But then any foe worth his salt will jump in anyway with their much, much greater numbers and wipe you out.
Personally I much prefer the smaller squad ops and avoid the massive fleet battles that just end in lag, dissatisfaction and usually a lost ship with nothing to do about it.
But unfortunately sometimes you just have to do it anyway.
Then CCP could implement population control ala Planetside. Where each faction can only have a certain number of pilots in a system before it gets "pop locked". Frankly thats the only way you are going to get "fair" fights, because even if the server could handle 200 ships fighting, people would make 300 ships blobs, then 400 ship blobs etc etc.
Just grow some balls and fight even if you 10 less ships then the enemy. If they result of the battle is that pre-determined why do you even bother fighting? Just count up how many ships are on each side and declare the group with more ships the winner.
--------------------------------------------------
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 02:51:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Tesk Malloc
Just a general reply to the several posters saying:
"Well why don't you just not blob up in the first place?"
This, in the current game is simply impossible, a group gets 10 ships, the enemy get 15. The group then gets 20 and then the enemy gets 25 and so on and so forth cold war style.
Yes, it would be nice to say "Hold on. Lets just place a max fleet size of 20 ships." But then any foe worth his salt will jump in anyway with their much, much greater numbers and wipe you out.
Personally I much prefer the smaller squad ops and avoid the massive fleet battles that just end in lag, dissatisfaction and usually a lost ship with nothing to do about it.
But unfortunately sometimes you just have to do it anyway.
Then CCP could implement population control ala Planetside. Where each faction can only have a certain number of pilots in a system before it gets "pop locked". Frankly thats the only way you are going to get "fair" fights, because even if the server could handle 200 ships fighting, people would make 300 ships blobs, then 400 ship blobs etc etc.
Just grow some balls and fight even if you 10 less ships then the enemy. If they result of the battle is that pre-determined why do you even bother fighting? Just count up how many ships are on each side and declare the group with more ships the winner.
--------------------------------------------------
|
aeti
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 03:09:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Tesk Malloc
Just a general reply to the several posters saying:
"Well why don't you just not blob up in the first place?"
This, in the current game is simply impossible, a group gets 10 ships, the enemy get 15. The group then gets 20 and then the enemy gets 25 and so on and so forth cold war style.
Yes, it would be nice to say "Hold on. Lets just place a max fleet size of 20 ships." But then any foe worth his salt will jump in anyway with their much, much greater numbers and wipe you out.
Personally I much prefer the smaller squad ops and avoid the massive fleet battles that just end in lag, dissatisfaction and usually a lost ship with nothing to do about it.
But unfortunately sometimes you just have to do it anyway.
well when you say have 70-80 in corp chat, what are you going to say: "oh btw, 50 of you aren't allowed to play, go logoff" or are you going to get as many as possible?
|
aeti
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 03:09:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tesk Malloc
Just a general reply to the several posters saying:
"Well why don't you just not blob up in the first place?"
This, in the current game is simply impossible, a group gets 10 ships, the enemy get 15. The group then gets 20 and then the enemy gets 25 and so on and so forth cold war style.
Yes, it would be nice to say "Hold on. Lets just place a max fleet size of 20 ships." But then any foe worth his salt will jump in anyway with their much, much greater numbers and wipe you out.
Personally I much prefer the smaller squad ops and avoid the massive fleet battles that just end in lag, dissatisfaction and usually a lost ship with nothing to do about it.
But unfortunately sometimes you just have to do it anyway.
well when you say have 70-80 in corp chat, what are you going to say: "oh btw, 50 of you aren't allowed to play, go logoff" or are you going to get as many as possible?
|
Tesk Malloc
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:52:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Tesk Malloc on 20/12/2004 18:56:32
Originally by: theRaptor
Then CCP could implement population control ala Planetside. Where each faction can only have a certain number of pilots in a system before it gets "pop locked". Frankly thats the only way you are going to get "fair" fights, because even if the server could handle 200 ships fighting, people would make 300 ships blobs, then 400 ship blobs etc etc.
Population lock is never gonna happen. In the grand scheme of things, how would the server know who is on whose side? Too easy to exploit so therefore impossible to regulate.
Originally by: theRaptor
Just grow some balls and fight even if you 10 less ships then the enemy. If they result of the battle is that pre-determined why do you even bother fighting? Just count up how many ships are on each side and declare the group with more ships the winner.
Insult my balls would you? *Shudder*
Myself and other brave CA pilots have warped into fleets of a larger size than ours many, many times before. But I think you where so eager to talk about my balls you missed the fact that I was speaking theroretically, as in using a fictional example to explain my point, so I'll let you off son.
Tesk Malloc - Hired Scum, Murderer and All Round Nasty Piece Of Work
"You can't love life too much. Everybody dies." |
Tesk Malloc
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:52:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Tesk Malloc on 20/12/2004 18:56:32
Originally by: theRaptor
Then CCP could implement population control ala Planetside. Where each faction can only have a certain number of pilots in a system before it gets "pop locked". Frankly thats the only way you are going to get "fair" fights, because even if the server could handle 200 ships fighting, people would make 300 ships blobs, then 400 ship blobs etc etc.
Population lock is never gonna happen. In the grand scheme of things, how would the server know who is on whose side? Too easy to exploit so therefore impossible to regulate.
Originally by: theRaptor
Just grow some balls and fight even if you 10 less ships then the enemy. If they result of the battle is that pre-determined why do you even bother fighting? Just count up how many ships are on each side and declare the group with more ships the winner.
Insult my balls would you? *Shudder*
Myself and other brave CA pilots have warped into fleets of a larger size than ours many, many times before. But I think you where so eager to talk about my balls you missed the fact that I was speaking theroretically, as in using a fictional example to explain my point, so I'll let you off son.
Tesk Malloc - Hired Scum, Murderer and All Round Nasty Piece Of Work
"You can't love life too much. Everybody dies." |
Tesk Malloc
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:53:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Tesk Malloc on 20/12/2004 18:54:35
Originally by: aeti
well when you say have 70-80 in corp chat, what are you going to say: "oh btw, 50 of you aren't allowed to play, go logoff" or are you going to get as many as possible?
I think your agreeing with me there?
Tesk Malloc - Hired Scum, Murderer and All Round Nasty Piece Of Work
"You can't love life too much. Everybody dies." |
Tesk Malloc
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:53:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Tesk Malloc on 20/12/2004 18:54:35
Originally by: aeti
well when you say have 70-80 in corp chat, what are you going to say: "oh btw, 50 of you aren't allowed to play, go logoff" or are you going to get as many as possible?
I think your agreeing with me there?
Tesk Malloc - Hired Scum, Murderer and All Round Nasty Piece Of Work
"You can't love life too much. Everybody dies." |
Moiran
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:59:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Moiran on 20/12/2004 21:00:21
yup, i know everytime there is an huge battle involving more then 50 ships lag is insane i heard of some battles actually being smooth in the past unfortunly i never got to witness them.
I tried to switch from mining to pvp, i had some great fun with battles against ca, but the lag devil finally got me, i decided to leave the game over it so in january my account won't be renewed.
They have promised over an year now the issue would be worked on and i am sure they tried, but i think they failed, still following the politics great fun.
|
Moiran
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:59:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Moiran on 20/12/2004 21:00:21
yup, i know everytime there is an huge battle involving more then 50 ships lag is insane i heard of some battles actually being smooth in the past unfortunly i never got to witness them.
I tried to switch from mining to pvp, i had some great fun with battles against ca, but the lag devil finally got me, i decided to leave the game over it so in january my account won't be renewed.
They have promised over an year now the issue would be worked on and i am sure they tried, but i think they failed, still following the politics great fun.
|
MadHawk
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 01:41:00 -
[95]
In the (good?) old days on Earth, a battle ground was chosen before the battle. Open field with room for both armies would do.
Then, they would both show up at opposite sides and try and scare each other into not fighting (read smacktalk.. :) )
Then, when both are ready they would walk, then run into eachother and the carnage would begin...
Maybe there is something to learn from the (good?) old days?
|
MadHawk
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 01:41:00 -
[96]
In the (good?) old days on Earth, a battle ground was chosen before the battle. Open field with room for both armies would do.
Then, they would both show up at opposite sides and try and scare each other into not fighting (read smacktalk.. :) )
Then, when both are ready they would walk, then run into eachother and the carnage would begin...
Maybe there is something to learn from the (good?) old days?
|
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