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Unlearning skills.

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Lester Atlas VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.18 18:50:00 - [1] - Quote Well i have been playing eve for some time now and have always been troubled by skills that i wished i havent learned and spent the time learning. So why not unlearn the skill and spend them elsewhere. I was thinking of something like a once a year refocusing button very similar to the neural remap already available in the game. I dont see anybody disenfranchised by this move. Older players get to refocus newer ones get to spend the skill points accordingly. So what do you think EVE-O?
Lester Atlas VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.18 18:51:00 - [2] - Quote reserved .
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 1073	Posted - 2012.07.18 19:09:00 - [3] - Quote I think it has to do with choices having consequences. I really don't care one way or the other on this, so, no support, but no resistance either from me.
Infinite Force Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 95	Posted - 2012.07.18 20:08:00 - [4] - Quote This has been brought up in other forum posts, but in essence, is all about a "skill remap". I personally wouldn't mind removing a useless skill or two, but there is also potential for abuse or everyone creating FOTY toons - which would end up making Eve a boring place. e.g. Max out remap of Perc / Will. Once a year, "unlearn" those skills, and dump them into areas that require, say, Charisma & Intel. I would like to see something like this, but I neither agree or disagree as long as it's properly implemented. HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go!
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 227	Posted - 2012.07.19 09:02:00 - [5] - Quote I hate this idea, always have, always will. 1. choices have consiquenses in Eve. 2. Most probably you used thos skills at one time in your Eve life, so you already benefitted from them. 3. If it was an accident that you chose a skill, then live with it (and why a full remap then?) 4. If it was an accident that you chose many skills that you no longer want (be more careful) 5. Character bazaar will kill the game for anyone who does not want to buy a character. (or have the $$$ to convert to PLEX / ISK) Please just live with the game choices you made and stop suggesting this idea. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Tidurious ResLife Can Suck It 219	Posted - 2012.07.19 18:46:00 - [6] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: I hate this idea, always have, always will. 1. choices have consiquenses in Eve. 2. Most probably you used thos skills at one time in your Eve life, so you already benefitted from them. 3. If it was an accident that you chose a skill, then live with it (and why a full remap then?) 4. If it was an accident that you chose many skills that you no longer want (be more careful) 5. Character bazaar will kill the game for anyone who does not want to buy a character. (or have the $$$ to convert to PLEX / ISK) Please just live with the game choices you made and stop suggesting this idea. This. Also, please learn what the word "search" means. You would have seen that this horrible, stupid idea has been suggested MANY times, over and over again by ignorant fools such as yourself. It is always shot down because it would totally defeat the purpose of EVE's skill system. That actions have long-term consequences is one of the core features of EVE - deal with it.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 801	Posted - 2012.07.19 20:55:00 - [7] - Quote No. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Lester Atlas VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 06:24:00 - [8] - Quote Tidurious wrote: Jint Hikaru wrote: I hate this idea, always have, always will. 1. choices have consiquenses in Eve. 2. Most probably you used thos skills at one time in your Eve life, so you already benefitted from them. 3. If it was an accident that you chose a skill, then live with it (and why a full remap then?) 4. If it was an accident that you chose many skills that you no longer want (be more careful) 5. Character bazaar will kill the game for anyone who does not want to buy a character. (or have the $$$ to convert to PLEX / ISK) Please just live with the game choices you made and stop suggesting this idea. This. Also, please learn what the word "search" means. You would have seen that this horrible, stupid idea has been suggested MANY times, over and over again by ignorant fools such as yourself. It is always shot down because it would totally defeat the purpose of EVE's skill system. That actions have long-term consequences is one of the core features of EVE - deal with it. We have enough consequences in game. IF you want more go play real life that has more.
Lester Atlas VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 06:24:00 - [9] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: No. why so any justifications?
Lester Atlas VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 06:37:00 - [10] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: I hate this idea, always have, always will. 1. choices have consiquenses in Eve. 2. Most probably you used thos skills at one time in your Eve life, so you already benefitted from them. 3. If it was an accident that you chose a skill, then live with it (and why a full remap then?) 4. If it was an accident that you chose many skills that you no longer want (be more careful) 5. Character bazaar will kill the game for anyone who does not want to buy a character. (or have the $$$ to convert to PLEX / ISK) Please just live with the game choices you made and stop suggesting this idea. 1. Yes i do understand that and we still have consequences in game this will NOT erase all of it. It will however lessen the consequences we take. Now the question is how much/many consequences do we need in this game? Have we gone to far? YES NO? that is the real issue just arguing that this game has consequences I can argue pushing your argument to its LOGICAL limit then why dont we have MORE consequences in game? 2. This is true but we also have to understand that thing/focus changes. Benefiting from the skills has nothing to do with changing your focus and benefiting from them even more. Why not? 3. Its highly unlikely that it is an accident 4. Accident nah. not gonna happen people chose to be a miner or an industrialist or a mission runner out of sheer ignorance and people forum posting about quadrillion isk/hour. Newer players are easily swayed by this. 5. Ok this is the ONLY valid effect that i see would affect the game. LESS players will buy from the bazaar since instead of selling their industry toon and buying a PVP toon or PVE toon they can just skill remap. OK to address this issue i believe that giving newer players/newly created accounts something to look forward for after a year of subscription like a skill remap will make the newer players LIKE to stay in the game more. I believe that the money gained by CCP for newer players having subscribing for a whole year and also returning players that have their skills in disarray will compensate for the income lost in the bazaar.

Damen Apol Cult of Escobar 17	Posted - 2012.07.20 13:09:00 - [11] - Quote Came in expecting a topic about Unlearning a skill where you put a skill in the unlearn queu and it deletes your SP so you don't have as expensive a clone.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 446	Posted - 2012.07.20 16:38:00 - [12] - Quote Damen Apol wrote: Came in expecting a topic about Unlearning a skill where you put a skill in the unlearn queu and it deletes your SP so you don't have as expensive a clone. See now THIS would actually be interesting. Not the OP though, that guy just wants respecs, and that's just silly.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant 77	Posted - 2012.07.20 16:39:00 - [13] - Quote Nope
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 804	Posted - 2012.07.20 17:32:00 - [14] - Quote Lester Atlas wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: No. why so any justifications? Many. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1173615 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94210 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86481 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098962 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78809 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=962209 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53185 Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
FloppieTheBanjoClown Buster's Salvage Transport and Recycling Service 1986	Posted - 2012.07.20 17:52:00 - [15] - Quote Been a while since we had one of these. I could get behind a ONE TIME, per account "gift" allowing a player to unlearn a certain number of skillpoints. Let's say at 18 months, after you've had plenty of time to figure the game out and know what you do and don't enjoy doing, you get the opportunity to reclaim from 1-3 million SPs and undo those noob mistakes, like training industrial skills you used a few times and then ignored. It would be a per-account thing, so characters couldn't be sold with it. Eve is just fine without it, I don't see any *need* for it, but at the same time I'd love to be able to scrap a few skills and repurpose them toward something I would actually find useful...instead of having skills trained that I'll never use because I didn't really understand what they did at the time. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
FloppieTheBanjoClown Buster's Salvage Transport and Recycling Service 1986	Posted - 2012.07.20 17:57:00 - [16] - Quote Lester Atlas wrote: This toon i am posting on right now is my 4th and i have sent 3 toons to the recycling bin because i was new and had no idea what i was doing. Apparently not, biomassing characters just because you weren't happy with your previously-chosen skills. This isn't some other MMO where you're at level 20 with a crappy skillset and needing to reroll. As SOON as you realize you took the wrong path, just start training what you want. The few million SP you wasted isn't THAT big a deal. You probably wasted quite a few support skills that apply to anything when you trashed those characters. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
Krusty Amarr VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 18:59:00 - [17] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Lester Atlas wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: No. why so any justifications? Many. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1173615 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94210 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86481 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098962 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78809 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=962209 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53185 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1173615 -> PLEX FOR SKILL https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94210 -> PLEX FOR SKILL https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86481 -> PLEX FOR SKILL https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098962 -> PLEX FOR SKILL https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78809 -> OH WAIT ANOTHER PLEX FOR SKILL https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=962209 -> YET ANOTHER https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53185 -> AND ANOTHER Please read the post im not asking to plex for skills. Im asking to have a remap of the skills you have already learned through time. I WONT BE PROPOSING ANYTHING THAT WOULD DESTROY THE GAME BECAUSE RICH FOLKS WANT INSTANT GRATIFICATION! This proposal has nothing to do with what you have called "JUSTIFICATIONS" which are all out of topic. THIS IS NOT A PLEX FOR SKILL! THIS IS A ONE TIME SKILL REMAP! Im still waiting for your justifications if you have any. My proposal is VERY different from what you have posted.
Krusty Amarr VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 19:04:00 - [18] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Lester Atlas wrote: This toon i am posting on right now is my 4th and i have sent 3 toons to the recycling bin because i was new and had no idea what i was doing. Apparently not, biomassing characters just because you weren't happy with your previously-chosen skills. This isn't some other MMO where you're at level 20 with a crappy skillset and needing to reroll. As SOON as you realize you took the wrong path, just start training what you want. The few million SP you wasted isn't THAT big a deal. You probably wasted quite a few support skills that apply to anything when you trashed those characters. Good sir. Biomassing a toon and "just start training what you want." is very much the same. This whole point of this feature is to not waste the time you have invested in training the skills you want so you can play. I believe EVE is already painful enough that you have to wait for a few months before you get to PVP,PVE or BUILD something properly. Which i totally love about the game but making a mistake realizing that mistake and spending all the time ALL over again to be able to PVE is a bit painful for newer even midlevel sp people.
Krusty Amarr VokoV space weaponry and trade 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 19:09:00 - [19] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: Damen Apol wrote: Came in expecting a topic about Unlearning a skill where you put a skill in the unlearn queu and it deletes your SP so you don't have as expensive a clone. See now THIS would actually be interesting. Not the OP though, that guy just wants respecs, and that's just silly. I dont think it is silly. First of what is silly is what the other guy is proposing for me its too one sided nothing for the player all for CCP. If you have the time and the money to pay for monthly subscription and just throw away all that so just you can have a cheaper clone then i feel really sad for you sir. A better solution is to just lower the price overall. But then again thats another topic and a different issue.
FloppieTheBanjoClown Buster's Salvage Transport and Recycling Service 1987	Posted - 2012.07.20 19:11:00 - [20] - Quote Krusty Amarr wrote: Good sir. Biomassing a toon and "just start training what you want." is very much the same. This whole point of this feature is to not waste the time you have invested in training the skills you want so you can play. I believe EVE is already painful enough that you have to wait for a few months before you get to PVP,PVE or BUILD something properly. Which i totally love about the game but making a mistake realizing that mistake and spending all the time ALL over again to be able to PVE is a bit painful for newer even midlevel sp people. Unless you completely forego and amount of combat skills--unlikely for a new player, as ship combat is the first thing you're shown--then biomassing your first toon is throwing out combat skills. You almost certainly acquired support and fitting skills that will apply to ANY ship you could fly. Biomassing a toon because you picked the skills is just repeating training you've already done. If the OP has biomassed four toons, that is probably MONTHS of training time thrown out. Just keep the skills you have, train new ones, and carry on. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711

Krusty Amarr VokoV 0	Posted - 2012.07.20 19:22:00 - [21] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Krusty Amarr wrote: Good sir. Biomassing a toon and "just start training what you want." is very much the same. This whole point of this feature is to not waste the time you have invested in training the skills you want so you can play. I believe EVE is already painful enough that you have to wait for a few months before you get to PVP,PVE or BUILD something properly. Which i totally love about the game but making a mistake realizing that mistake and spending all the time ALL over again to be able to PVE is a bit painful for newer even midlevel sp people. Unless you completely forego and amount of combat skills--unlikely for a new player, as ship combat is the first thing you're shown--then biomassing your first toon is throwing out combat skills. You almost certainly acquired support and fitting skills that will apply to ANY ship you could fly. Biomassing a toon because you picked the skills is just repeating training you've already done. If the OP has biomassed four toons, that is probably MONTHS of training time thrown out. Just keep the skills you have, train new ones, and carry on. I totally agree is months of training time thrown own. This is because as a newer player i had no direction everything was on the table the tutorials sucked and FORCED me to do everything. I thought that was how the game was supposed to be played. I learned industrial and combat skills and tried to make it work. But when as you advance and learn more about the game you realized that you would have been better of with a focused skill training. I am not saying that the previous skills you trained are TOTALLY useless they are just something that you wanna get rid of or something that you realize your not interested in. OK i admit i may have done a mistake biomassing the toons but it was horrible that the skills were in total disarray. Made me feel bad that i couldnt fly a kestrel properly but i can fit an Osprey with miners. Why so because Industrial tutorial asked me to mine so and so. Then security tutorial suddenly asked me to kill something but i couldnt fit anything in my kestrel. I real world example of how new players get frustrated.
Tidurious ResLife Can Suck It 221	Posted - 2012.07.25 10:48:00 - [22] - Quote OP - You are a dumbass. You are asking for either a SP remap or an attribute remap with no penalties - go **** yourself!!! For the vast majority, players don't want this - go screw yourself! This would be game breaking. No SP for re-maps!!!
z Flint Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective 3	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:52:00 - [23] - Quote Can't support this proposal.
Aren Valle Lonetrek Mineral Corporation 3	Posted - 2012.08.29 23:08:00 - [24] - Quote Unlearning skills == Bong hits
Tidurious ResLife Can Suck It 222	Posted - 2012.08.31 23:37:00 - [25] - Quote By the way: Unlearning is called forgetting, dumb***. Horrible idea, biomass your toon.
Kaelie Onren Nyan Cat Logistics Persona Non Gratis 41	Posted - 2012.09.06 16:40:00 - [26] - Quote You know you are a vet when you have seen this proposal resurrected and rehashed at least 3 times. Just putting my friendly 'no' vote (again) its just like a character bazaar but worse. Will likely spawn people who play 1 year as a certain 'class' then switch up entirely to another one a year later. That essentially 'cheats' the skill system out of another years worth of your subscription money and effort (assuming you take 2 years to skill up both classes)
Arduemont Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable. 264	Posted - 2012.09.06 16:48:00 - [27] - Quote Terrible, terrible idea. Terrible.
Kaelie Onren Nyan Cat Logistics Persona Non Gratis 41	Posted - 2012.09.06 17:03:00 - [28] - Quote Krusty Amarr wrote: I totally agree is months of training time thrown own. This is because as a newer player i had no direction everything was on the table the tutorials sucked and FORCED me to do everything. I thought that was how the game was supposed to be played. I learned industrial and combat skills and tried to make it work. But when as you advance and learn more about the game you realized that you would have been better of with a focused skill training. I am not saying that the previous skills you trained are TOTALLY useless they are just something that you wanna get rid of or something that you realize your not interested in. OK i admit i may have done a mistake biomassing the toons but it was horrible that the skills were in total disarray. Made me feel bad that i couldnt fly a kestrel properly but i can fit an Osprey with miners. Why so because Industrial tutorial asked me to mine so and so. Then security tutorial suddenly asked me to kill something but i couldnt fit anything in my kestrel. I real world example of how new players get frustrated. Maybe that means you should bug CCP to fix the tutorials, or otherwise make the new player experience better. Not ask for a cheat to compensate for a bad tutorial. I think team Five 0 is doing good work on this front recently. But in the big picture of things is ... the SP you end up putting into skills after running all the tutorials... is what? like less than 1-2mil? That not that much wasted time. Also I didn't find that any skills learned in the Security Tutorial Agent was wasted. I'm curious to know which ones were wasted and would have been better spent making you fit a kestrel properly. You shouldn't assume that just because you took the indy tutorial, then you should be prepared for the security tutorial. They are distinct and independent. Remember that some people choose to skip some tutors entirely. (if they wanted to, say, be just a grunt) maybe you should have done that instead of wasting your time and SP with the indy tutorial.
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 749	Posted - 2012.09.06 17:13:00 - [29] - Quote I think you need to live with whatever **ty decision you've made. It's called a "consequence." Now *ing deal with it. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."*
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 487	Posted - 2012.09.06 17:27:00 - [30] - Quote No.... 1.) If I can unlearn a few million skills every year, I can save them and instantly ship into anything I desire at a moments notice.... This is NOT a good thing.... Hell, 700k sp will allow me to train a brand new race from no-ships to Frig IV, Cruiser IV, and BS IV..... It's another 400k for Frig V, 1m for Cruiser V, and its 1.6m for BS V. 2.) I can train Precep will skills all day long, and then untrain them to pick up nice leadership skills without remapping to charisma, or whatever. This basically allows me to earn those pesky specialty skills 55% faster.... and 2m SP is enough to pick up four basic fleet bonuses to V, or two warfare link bonuses to V. 3.) Just because you aren't utilizing a skill now, doesn't mean you didn't gain benefit from that skill in the past.... so you're essentially reaping the rewards of your skillpoints more than once.... Also, just because you don't use a skill now doesn't mean you wont use it in the future.... People change careers all the time in EvE..... and having a wide variety of skills keeps doors open!



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