whats the average..... 50-100m/hour / 100-200m/hour

i basically just have a tengu this pilot was my capital builder for a while just used him for the extra slots for capital componant building, but if the isk is good enough i may think about selling my main.... 47m sp sub cap pilot easy 15b sale with the skills he has to buy one that can work better in a WH/incursion

whats the average..... 50-100m/hour / 100-200m/hour

incursions = 50-60mil / h per char
c3,c4,c5 etc 50-100mil / h per char

You're bad at Eve. Get out.

..

It's a matter of perspective.

Highsec incursions will net you 90-120mil per hour as a realistic figure.

I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.

Do they need nerfing?

The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.

Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.

I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...

Leave incursions alone, working as intended.

incursion needs a nerf for sure. with 3 basi in a fleet, no way in hell your fleet will pop.

and probably you havent seen any C5 cap km, 2 bhaal and you're dead for sure, or not even that, a few T3s with one logis would be enough taking down any cap running sites in C5, C6.

your C3 with your pos is just too safe.

I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.

Do they need nerfing?

The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.

Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.

I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...

Leave incursions alone, working as intended.

[...]
There is no "risk" in PvE when you have a brain. Risk vs. reward is concerning the risk of other players, not NPCs.

If you have half a brain and can put together a decent fleet and know what you're doing, you shouldn't lost a damn thing to NPCs in PvE. The risk comes from players. There is none in high sec.

People flying 1-3 billion ships on the average. Logi's are about 300-400mil. That gives you 1bn in logis, and a fair 10-20 bn in DPS in solid fleets.

Now there is suicide gankers, ECM Burst griefers, griefing Logi, griefing FCs, bad FCs, bad Logis, failfit Logis, disconnecs and idiots in OTAs - this is a very small list - incursions are risky. Don't kid yourself.

The fact that incursions require very careful planning and execution - and any derivation means people die proves its the content that is risky.

thanks for the replies so far guys

as far as the R&K carrier kill in that **** happens R&K will gank you wherever they see fit at least you can make that bill bake fairly easy in a C6

The DPS is far greater than a C3 and C4 for absolute certain.

I enjoy running incursions. It's as much a social event for me as money grinding.

If my fleet is running optimal and every is on form, we can average about 100-120 mill per hour each.

The difference I see for incursions is that you require to be part of a team, some people lack the people skills and or don't want to work with others and so for them running havens, sanctums and worm-holing probably works best.

But if you want to be part of a group, enjoy some laughs and jokes with people and make a poop ton of isk at the same time, then incursions are the thing for you.

Only do something as long as you're having fun. if you're making a ton of isk on your own... but you're bored of the monotony of solo play, give me a shout in game and I'll get you sorted with a fleet.

Did any of your Logis disconnect?

Did anyone from your fleet who was dual boxing Logis disconnect?

Make no mistake about it Incursions are not easy, I'm quite fortunate and I know some of the best in the business to fly with and yes we are very organised. However It is still easy to lose ships whilst running Incursions.

The DPS is far greater than a C3 and C4 for absolute certain.

Did any of your Logis disconnect?

Did anyone from your fleet who was dual boxing Logis disconnect?

Make no mistake about it Incursions are not easy

If this is truly unbalanced, all those wh dwellers would move back to highsec en mass for the easy money. You don't see this happening. Action speaks louder than words.

Add some of the major WH alliances to your contacts list. Done?

Right.

Now go into an incursion constellation.

You'll see a whole **** load of WH residents there, as well as lots of nullsec folk.

So much so, it was awkard for me to get fleets as BUGRY are set -10 to most WH alliances

How big is a "major wh alliance?"

I happen to know numerous highsec carebears who's moved into whs since Incursion expansion. Since t3 market is stable, I'm going to take your completely objective first hand observation under advisement.

Add some of the major WH alliances to your contacts list. Done?

You also seem to forget (repeatedly) that the risk in a WH isn't coming from a PVE encounter.

This is one of the dumbest points made in this thread.

You can spam D-scan to reduce your WH risk to something near 0?

His comment read as "If incursions were so good, WH residents would be doing them [instead of WH anoms]"

Which any effort will show you is true.

It's only dumb if you can't read.

You can spam D-scan to reduce your WH risk to something near 0?

The ignorance in game mechanics expressed here is phenomenal.

Cloaked ships? Prebookmarked sites? Good probers?

D-scan provides moderate safety. But as anyone who has spent some time in w-space knows, its not a matter of if you'll get taken down, but a matter of when.

His comment read as....they are so good that wh residents are doing them...

Incursion income needs a nerf.

I'm not sure who you're trying to disagree with at the moment

WH residents are doing them, given that both myself, members of my alliance, and members of WH alliances I've got on contacts lists are going them. Not to mention the number of null-alts you see around.

100mil+ an hour in highsec needs a nerf, on that we will agree (though whilst they're there....)

im not talking about risk vs. reward or WH saftey guys.

i was just curious if i was to log in play for 5-8 hours what would make me more isk a C5 or highsec incursions

the only alliances i would even consider is Talcan United or Norwhals so im sure those guys have security in check

Since everyone is getting out of whs and doing incursions, we must speculate on t3 stuff, prices are gonna rise... Oh wait, they're not.

People move into whs... and they move out... If market trends are to be believed, more people moving in than out.

Again:

a) More reasons to live in a WH than to run anoms, so looking at a general trend is stupid
b) You're ********

The fact that you find people whose corp holds C5/C6 wormholes, as well as null residents in highsec running their PVE, isn't indicative of some issue to you, then?

100-150 mil an hour, which I made soloing C1s with a salvage alt in tow. In my time in w-space,

Yes, I do find the dropping t3 prices and increasing supply of t3 material to be indicative of more people moving into whs than out of whs.

I also see null blobbers moving to empire, and empire carebears moving to null. People move.

You can spam D-scan to reduce your WH risk to something near 0?

Why is it in so many of your posts you have a bias against someone? Null sec blobbers, empire carebears...CCP sucks, etc etc.

Biomass your characters and stop trolling these forums.

Did you ever lived in a WH ?

Most of WH, especialy low class are often camped by afk cloaker, and remember clocked ships are not only ***** frigates today.

You have a cooldown on the D-scan refresh, you can easily miss someone entered in the system, especialy when there is several gates poped.

The only safe mode you can get in a WH is when you know nobody entered in the system since few hours, and you are inside a site (not an anomaly) as you have time to see eventual probes ...

Sure, if you scan very often (every few seconds), you can limit your risk but not avoid them 100%

Why would afk cloaker camp a wh? Clearly, you have actually lived in whs and noticed those evil afk cloakers on local, thus preventing you from undocking.

It's safe if you're not stupid. And there are macros that cycle the dscan for you nowdays, get with the program.

Yes, I do find the dropping t3 prices and increasing supply of t3 material to be indicative of more people moving into whs than out of whs.

I also see null blobbers moving to empire, and empire carebears moving to null. People move.

Faceless forum alt says hello. Also, all my alts and alliance peons like me too, on every one of my posts. And nice drake blobs, valuable contribution of TEST to Eve.

Why would afk cloaker camp a wh? Clearly, you have actually lived in whs and noticed those evil afk cloakers on local, thus preventing you from undocking.

It's safe if you're not stupid. And there are macros that cycle the dscan for you nowdays, get with the program.

It is precisely BECAUSE there is no local, that camping the wormhole works, ******.

You simply find an occupied wormhole, scan down every site, then cloak and wait.

People log on, go do stuff. You can then warp to them without popping probes.

You're clearly ******** mate, keep posting ****. It's amusing to see someone so terribly bad **** post like they have a clue.

Be afraid... be very afraid, 23/7. Because the unseen afk cloaky is always out there, even though he's afk, and whether he exists or not.

I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.

Do they need nerfing?

The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.

Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.

I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...

Leave incursions alone, working as intended.

Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers. To note, I have flown and FC'd incursions, and ran just about every type of WH.


-Arazel

this guy gets everything right, 100m/h isnt hard to achieve in hisec incursion.

definitely need a nerf.

and btw, are you serious that 1 C5 site can net about 1.5b, that sounds incredibly insane

1.5bil is about right for capital escalations, yeah.

When you consider this is the unsplit payout and requires most of the pilots to be in capital class ships, and even then, remains pretty brutal and has to be done in nullsec with no local, it doesn't seem out of the normal risk:reward curve. Not to mention you need to occupy "nullsec" space and keep all those assets at risk.

Netting 1.5bil (10.5mil payout x 10) from an Incursion site that takes 5 minutes to run in highsec? That's where your risk:reward is ******.

The escalations in our C6 only needs 3 (2) capital pilots at max really to get the escalations. The damage dealers are sub-capital.
And yes I can confirm that it's around 1.5 b isk per site.

Why do you do subcaps for damage dealers? Just get a good loki or two and then toss on as many dreads as you have pilots for (and of course either a triage carrier or a few logi's to keep said loki's alive). 6kdps per dread that can actually effectively be applied is awsome

-Arazel

Wormhole number discussion including salvage as part of income.

-Arazel

Counting salvage for WHs is akin to counting LP for incursions. Salvage is random.

For C4, I would say about 60mil per site in tags (anomalies, ignore Integrated Terminus), 4 per hour with 2 properly fit tengus, thus netting 120 mil/hr.

Solo farming Frontier Barracks/Command Post used to be possible and thus net about 100 mil/hr but alas that day is gone.

Point being, the risks involved to get up to the 100mi/hr rate in wh space means C4 whs. In high sec...it means get into a decent Incursion farming fleet.

Sorry guys but your little Incursions pot of gold is just a bit over the top. It needs its potential to be cut in half.

Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for or against incursion income values.

However, I think including some approximation of expected salvage value is perfectly reasonable as a measure of income. While your point that salvage is random is true, it does follow a probability distribution(at least I assume it does) so over time will trend towards a stable value.

Counting salvage for WHs is akin to counting LP for incursions. Salvage is random.

For C4, I would say about 60mil per site in tags (anomalies, ignore Integrated Terminus), 4 per hour with 2 properly fit tengus, thus netting 120 mil/hr.

Solo farming Frontier Barracks/Command Post used to be possible and thus net about 100 mil/hr but alas that day is gone.

Point being, the risks involved to get up to the 100mi/hr rate in wh space means C4 whs. In high sec...it means get into a decent Incursion farming fleet.

Sorry guys but your little Incursions pot of gold is just a bit over the top. It needs its potential to be cut in half.

does loki actually work, we tried out on sisi, rapier with 40km web range even doesnt seem enough, loki with domination web is only 37km.

Much of that is due to the organization skills of BTL Pub & TDF and I tip my hat to them for that.

As for the incursions, if you are so against them how about you get 70 or so of your buddies and go kill the mom's after they pop. Look, there is already a means for you to cut back on their excessive income with just a little bit of effort on your part. Do it to all the motherships and suddenly they don't have any incursions to farm. How is that for "risk to earning potential?" You, with just a little bit of effort, can stop hundreds of people from making billions of isk/hour. Don't want to? Then shut up and stop complaining.

You butthurt or something dude?

The fact is, the potential for that sort of isk shouldn't exist in high sec. End of story.

Judging by how mad you seem to be, you know this to be true but you don't want it to change, yet fear that CCP might eventually get wise and fix it.

tl;dr, u mad son?

He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad?

And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away.

sweet troll goose, excellent white knight post

feel free to be constructive once in a while, it wouldn't hurt you (much)

You mad, bro?

never stop posting bro

Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers.

n3v4r!

incursion needs a nerf for sure. with 3 basi in a fleet, no way in hell your fleet will pop.

and probably you havent seen any C5 cap km, 2 bhaal and you're dead for sure, or not even that, a few T3s with one logis would be enough taking down any cap running sites in C5, C6.

your C3 with your pos is just too safe.

You butthurt or something dude?

The fact is, the potential for that sort of isk shouldn't exist in high sec. End of story.

Judging by how mad you seem to be, you know this to be true but you don't want it to change, yet fear that CCP might eventually get wise and fix it.

tl;dr, u mad son?

Incursions in high sec should hit max 50 mil/hr/character, and I'd say that is pushing it right there.
Incursions in low sec, however, should easily exceed 100 mil/hr/character, if not more, as there is real risk there.

[quote=Goose99]
btw, once they cloak, there's no way on earth you can see them....... l2wh

And no way for them to find you, So what is the matter? Probes are not cloaked.

General notes - don't expect to do much with multi-boxing. This is one of the big reasons why I stopped flying them - everyone wants in on it and it seems that everyone has a predjudice against people multi-boxing. If you have just 1 acct, incursions are great. If you have more, they are great for that one acct that can actually fly in it, but you are probably going to be looking to get better isk off of other activities when you divide it out by accts

Your post was really worth reading and it had lots information that people often dont share, like WH rewards per class +.

But this multiboxing thing.. I dont get how this rolls. In my experience 1+ account in incursion (ive run 2 accounts in 2 separate fleets and in same fleet) has not gotten me into trouble, its opposite.

Its much more interesting with 2 accounts, more stuff to do and there is still no time wasted idle on either of my accounts. I understand this might be true if you click everything you do, but if this is not the case I would like to know what is this all about.
Not to forget the fact that you can look fleet on both characters, as soon as one gets picked you got high chance of slipping in your 2nd character, saving time in looking.
Reason why I play incursions mostly multiboxing: 1 account there makes me yawn, its BORING.

Ps. not to forget the double isk factor when running 2 accounts.

Edit: This is embarrassing, I just massively necro'ed this thread.