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Garbad theWeak
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Posted - 2010.07.02 15:15:00 -
[1]
A friend and I are considering joining either FW or RvB. I'm an experienced 0.0 pvper but only tried FW briefly. I've never tried RvB.
Which would you recommend as an overall pvp experience? What type of ships would you suggest as a min/max? Can you recommend some good corps/fcs/hot spots/factions?
Anything else would be helpful.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.02 15:23:00 -
[2]
Why not jump into rvb and after a day or few if you want to continue or try fw rather? ERvB is setup to be fromthego pewpew afaik. -
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Syekuda
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.07.02 15:26:00 -
[3]
believe me on that, trying FW briefly is not enough. Stay longer if you wish to know what FW really is
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.07.02 15:56:00 -
[4]
Both are great. If your friend is not experienced I would say go rvb. Just learn the rules - like no podding or ecm.
Overall rvb is likely the best place to learn the basics. (I'm not saying there aren't very good experienced pilots there because there are) FW has more diversity and is less predictable.
Min max ships for rvb: noob ship- cruiser for rvb. But any ship if its a purple op. (third party war dec)
Min max for fw(amarr minmatar): min- t1 frigate. Max? jsut limited by being in low sec. In gneral there are lots of fleets with cruisers and bcs.
I have always fought for amarr and like them. The corp I am in is not all that active but then again I am not that active lately so thats a good thing. I need to know a bit more about what you want from a corp before I can recomend one.
Good luck -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Milla Jovobitch
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Posted - 2010.07.02 17:22:00 -
[5]
Having done both, I have to say they both are very good entertainment.
RvB is great insta-fun: in the peak hours there are constant fights in small gangs and small fleets (20+ on each side), you can always get 1v1s that are honored, and it's all about action within a set of rules. You're guaranteed to have a blast, and lose a lot of T1 frigs and cruisers, plus an occasional BS/BC/T2 ship.
FW is a much more serious affair, and there's much more planning, scouting, tactical thought, and warping around. The playground is bigger. In FW, like in Eve in general, there are no rules and fights are usually not balanced. Straightforward action doesn't play a central role, like in RvB. FW has some of the best FC's of Eve (in my experience). You're gonna have fun and learn a lot while losing any ships types you like to lose.
As the other people earlier said: Try RvB first, then get immersed deep in FW. Both are great fun. (In FW, watch out for your pod.)
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Major GaIdari
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Posted - 2010.07.02 17:28:00 -
[6]
Going to have to agree with the general consensus here. Plan for both.
Start at RvB, especially if you have no real pvp experience. It is pretty easy to get 1v1s (which are generally the best way to learn the ropes) but good fleet fights as well. However, I found it to get kind of stale.
So my advice is, as soon as RvB looses its thrill plan to go to FW, you will have hopefully enough experience to get yourself around fairly safely, and its a better long term plan as RvB after a while feels too prearranged to really be fun. (Disclaimer: You're results may vary)
As far as which faction to join, really just join the one you have standings with. They are pretty much all the same despite what some of the fanboy's may tell you.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.02 17:29:00 -
[7]
They are rather different beasts. Generally I get the impression that the FW folks are a little more serious business than RVB they're focused more on winning while RVB is mainly about the fight (don't get me wrong we like winning and all but the fight is the priority).
RVB is pretty consistent on the types of fighting we do mostly t1 Frig and Cruiser stuff (though there are no rules on what you can fly) on fleet action the ship types are generally restricted by the FC and in general we try to keep the fights more or less even as far as ship types and number.
We do this not because of some sort of weird sense of ebushido but because when people feel like their getting ganked all the time they stop having fun and when they stop having fun they take their toys and go home and then no one is getting kills.
Faction War seems far more random and matter of who just has the biggest blob on at a given moment.
RVB also doesn't worry about spys since for the most part it really doesn't matter for what we do and the damage that can be caused by 3rd parties is limited, while my understanding of FW is pretty paranoid about spying to the point where you won't be getting into any fleets until you develop something of a rep.
RVB is almost exclusively in high sec with all the market advantages that that entails while FW takes place mostly in low sec. RVB has rules against podding meaning that your implants are safer while FW does not.
FW on the other hand has access to their unique LP store items and some apparently very lucrative missions if one is willing to crater a couple faction standings. RVB is a pure money pit with very little in the way of income options.
I personally think that RVB is a little more newb friendly not that we don't have plenty of experienced pilots but the cheaper hulls and generally more congenial attitude makes it a bit of a better environment than the paranoid serious internet spaceship war of FW.
I have to admit I might be tempted to give FW a go myself once I get board of RVB I'm just not quite ready to surrender my easy travel in empire.
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Mopsy Six
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Posted - 2010.07.02 17:41:00 -
[8]
With FW you really have to get into it. Trying it briefly means getting a Frigate or a Cruiser and going from one system to annother, flying around a beacon. Sometimes getting fights, since it's lowsec and pirates will warp on your complex.
RvB, it's fun blowing stuff up, but it'll never be the real EVE PvP. It'll never be a sandbox, you're fighting specified targets and in pretty much a boxed, safe space.
TL;DR I'd definetly go into FW, if you're picking from just these two. You'll get good fights in lowsec and highsec, you're a part of an alot bigger community and you're constantly fighting in a hazardous enviroment where ev'rything can happen. Then there are alot of opportunities to fleet up or meet up with people you don't know in a plex, simply because you're having the same goal. Butterfly anyone?
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.02 18:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 02/07/2010 18:28:27
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Garbad theWeak
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Posted - 2010.07.02 19:01:00 -
[10]
Thanks for the comments so far, keep em coming.
I'm a pvp vet but new to rvb and fw, having only played fw very briefly as a noob. My friend isn't technically a virgin, since his indy corp got wardeced a while back and he got a couple of kills but he has never really pvped. I would probably be in a nanocane and he would probably be in some ghetto celestis or something equally garbage.
We would probably be minmatarr or amarr for the challenge, and would mostly be looking for an active, aggressive corp preferably with some decent vets and not just rifter spam.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.07.02 19:50:00 -
[11]
Based on what you just said I would say go with fw.
As far as getting in a corp, there is allot of concern for spies. It's ridiculous that people have spies in fw, but it does happen. You may want to join the npc fw corp and then just join some fleets get to know some people on the vent server and then inquire about joining a corp. Yes some people in militia are overly concerned about spies.
For the amarr you would join the 24th. Just hanging out around kourmonen and the systems 1 jump from there would probably give your dynamaic duo some pretty fun pew pew. Amarr has a high sec station that they resupply in tuomuta which is 2 jumps. So logistics isn't bad.
Remember you get sentry guns if you shoot neutrals, no bubbles, and no bombs. -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
ulduarm
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Posted - 2010.07.03 08:23:00 -
[12]
RVB is an great place to learn ship types are Frigate-Cruiser-BC-BS really upto what you can afford to loss as your for sure gonna get a small fleet on you if you fly anything bigger than an BC :)
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Chrome Molly
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2010.07.03 11:27:00 -
[13]
R-V-B is the same as all high sec pvp and not very good. Try faction warfare .
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Chrome Molly R-V-B is the same as all high sec pvp and not very good. Try faction warfare .
Wrong ---------- www.eve-arena.com
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Dr Lebroi
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Posted - 2010.07.03 14:22:00 -
[15]
RVB is probably the best place to start, you can jump in and out without any problems, there are no interviews or closed fleets or other cliques that won't admit you until you've 'done time'. Joincorp, join fleet, fight, rinse and repeat. Drop corp once it gets stale and move on. Do a couple of days to get up to speed then move onto FW.
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Elton Murrow
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Posted - 2010.07.03 17:19:00 -
[16]
I have no experience with RvB, but FW is very engrossing. I left after a while simply because I wanted to pirate in nullsec and having the added logistical issues of FW in empire wasn't something I cared to deal with.
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Torothin
Shadow Morning
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Posted - 2010.07.03 17:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Torothin on 03/07/2010 17:48:32 I disagree. In order to excel at PvP you need to be doing it 24-7 and be surrounded by targets that fight back. Join a good FW corp with an experienced FC or two. In FW someone is always willing to go on a roam and you can get some good small scale fights. But theres also bigger fights as well. Fleet Finder is your friend. Start off in a tackling scram frig and go nuts. Buffer Tanked T1 Cruisers are a cheap option too.
I have no experience with RvB but I have been told it's mainly frig based. FW can provide small scale 30 on 30 BC or RR BS engagements. Sometimes Caps can be involved too. It makes things very fun since it's all in low sec and you never know who is watching. Can high-sec offers all of this valuable experience??? Again I am not trying to bash any RvB players here. But FW offers plentiful targets, and it's also low-sec so it offers pirates and other targets as well. This goes more into surrounding yourself with targets idea...
Lag isn't very bad during those fights either. But you can just focus on getting solo kills in FW too. Not everyone does the plexes. And targets base 3 jumps away. What more of a pvp environment could you ask for??? Amarr Vs Minnie is where it's at. I hope I have provided some insight.
Thanks,
Toro
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Torothin Edited by: Torothin on 03/07/2010 17:48:32 I disagree. In order to excel at PvP you need to be doing it 24-7 and be surrounded by targets that fight back. Join a good FW corp with an experienced FC or two. In FW someone is always willing to go on a roam and you can get some good small scale fights. But theres also bigger fights as well. Fleet Finder is your friend. Start off in a tackling scram frig and go nuts. Buffer Tanked T1 Cruisers are a cheap option too.
I have no experience with RvB but I have been told it's mainly frig based. FW can provide small scale 30 on 30 BC or RR BS engagements. Sometimes Caps can be involved too. It makes things very fun since it's all in low sec and you never know who is watching. Can high-sec offers all of this valuable experience??? Again I am not trying to bash any RvB players here. But FW offers plentiful targets, and it's also low-sec so it offers pirates and other targets as well. This goes more into surrounding yourself with targets idea...
Lag isn't very bad during those fights either. But you can just focus on getting solo kills in FW too. Not everyone does the plexes. And targets base 3 jumps away. What more of a pvp environment could you ask for??? Amarr Vs Minnie is where it's at. I hope I have provided some insight.
Thanks,
Toro
Having done FW for almost 1,5 years and RvB nearly half a year combining the current RvB (2) and the original, I'd say RvB is a lot better at teaching PVP basics than FW. "Proper" FWers are wary of new people in the NPC militias as spies are so easily used so you won't get in the good fleets right away and for a noob soloer RvB is an infinitely better training ground in the raw combat mechanics and skills... Though RvB does not teach you much about the metagame, situational/ environmental awareness or other stuff very important to "real" PVP but it's debatable if FW does really either, at least on the NPC/ bad corp "grunt" level :D
Go RvB 1st, do an Agony class if you so fancy (but RvB forums and corp chat used to be pretty full of information and newbie friendly as well), then try other stuff including FW. Just stay out of hisec wars or large spaceholding alliances and you're bound to have fun ;) ---------- www.eve-arena.com
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Mav'Lite
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Posted - 2010.07.03 18:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Raimo Having done FW for almost 1,5 years and RvB nearly half a year combining the current RvB (2) and the original, I'd say RvB is a lot better at teaching PVP basics than FW. "Proper" FWers are wary of new people in the NPC militias as spies are so easily used so you won't get in the good fleets right away and for a noob soloer RvB is an infinitely better training ground in the raw combat mechanics and skills... Though RvB does not teach you much about the metagame, situational/ environmental awareness or other stuff very important to "real" PVP but it's debatable if FW does really either, at least on the NPC/ bad corp "grunt" level :D
Go RvB 1st, do an Agony class if you so fancy (but RvB forums and corp chat used to be pretty full of information and newbie friendly as well), then try other stuff including FW. Just stay out of hisec wars or large spaceholding alliances and you're bound to have fun ;)
QFT, the man speaks sense.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.03 19:34:00 -
[20]
Oh, I forgot to add that it's a huge plus that RvB sees a lot of frigate action, IMHO mastering frigate PVP teaches you all the skills you need for larger ships as well, but hopping straight in to a BC or BS you will outright *Suck* for a long time in frigates... Also, speed is fun :D ---------- www.eve-arena.com
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Torothin
Shadow Morning
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Posted - 2010.07.03 21:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Torothin on 03/07/2010 21:20:10 FW does offer situational awareness that you have to acquire if you want to be good at PvP. In real eve there is no set rules/even number fleets/ PvP paradise. It is whoever outwits the other opponet wins. Pirates/Roaming alliances offer alot to low-sec PvP. If you want set rules/even numbers then RvB is the way to go.
If you want to be ready for a 0.0. Have something to offer. Learn how to survive. All that good stuff and not get ganked because you are used to being outnumbered and what not then FW is the way to go. I once again will recommend Amarr/Minnie as before. A good PC corp is vital as stated above.
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Elton Murrow
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Posted - 2010.07.03 21:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Torothin
If you want to be ready for a 0.0.
Go join a large alliance NAP and blob stuff. Be sure to train for Amaar ships.
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Milayy Papangan
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Posted - 2010.07.04 19:20:00 -
[23]
PoTBS dead yet?
Go RvB Garbad - I've read poasts from you for 3 years from pirates.
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Rmage Gemmell
Minmatar Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.04 19:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Rmage Gemmell on 04/07/2010 19:50:49
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Torothin Edited by: Torothin on 03/07/2010 17:48:32 I disagree. In order to excel at PvP you need to be doing it 24-7 and be surrounded by targets that fight back. Join a good FW corp with an experienced FC or two. In FW someone is always willing to go on a roam and you can get some good small scale fights. But theres also bigger fights as well. Fleet Finder is your friend. Start off in a tackling scram frig and go nuts. Buffer Tanked T1 Cruisers are a cheap option too.
I have no experience with RvB but I have been told it's mainly frig based. FW can provide small scale 30 on 30 BC or RR BS engagements. Sometimes Caps can be involved too. It makes things very fun since it's all in low sec and you never know who is watching. Can high-sec offers all of this valuable experience??? Again I am not trying to bash any RvB players here. But FW offers plentiful targets, and it's also low-sec so it offers pirates and other targets as well. This goes more into surrounding yourself with targets idea...
Lag isn't very bad during those fights either. But you can just focus on getting solo kills in FW too. Not everyone does the plexes. And targets base 3 jumps away. What more of a pvp environment could you ask for??? Amarr Vs Minnie is where it's at. I hope I have provided some insight.
Thanks,
Toro
Having done FW for almost 1,5 years and RvB nearly half a year combining the current RvB (2) and the original, I'd say RvB is a lot better at teaching PVP basics than FW. "Proper" FWers are wary of new people in the NPC militias as spies are so easily used so you won't get in the good fleets right away and for a noob soloer RvB is an infinitely better training ground in the raw combat mechanics and skills... Though RvB does not teach you much about the metagame, situational/ environmental awareness or other stuff very important to "real" PVP but it's debatable if FW does really either, at least on the NPC/ bad corp "grunt" level :D
Go RvB 1st, do an Agony class if you so fancy (but RvB forums and corp chat used to be pretty full of information and newbie friendly as well), then try other stuff including FW. Just stay out of hisec wars or large spaceholding alliances and you're bound to have fun ;)
This really. I have done FW for 9 months now, and i just recently got into RVB. If you want to learn fast, RVB is a better place, but you also need to remember that most of the stuff that is viable in RVB, arranged fights/hg snakes/hg slaves/no podding, is not done in FW. Also, RVB peeps setup their ships for higher buffer, which is not viable in low/0.0 .
Try RVB first, but be weary of who you ask 1;1's ... my advice is to simply state that you are a newbie and would like a gf in frig - 1;1, with ppl who DO NOT have slaves, as you won't learn anything when you see that punisher of 18k EHP still in 80% armor when you pop.
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Why not jump into rvb and after a day or few if you want to continue or try fw rather? ERvB is setup to be fromthego pewpew afaik.
Wardecc both first, than fight ... than join one of the corps worked better for me. :) - Intigo |
Sneaky Noob
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.04 22:30:00 -
[25]
join amarr fw so i can shoot you in the face over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
The Sneakiest Noob in all of EVE |
Chrome Molly
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2010.07.05 09:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Chrome Molly R-V-B is the same as all high sec pvp and not very good. Try faction warfare .
Wrong
This must not the R-v-B that you knew. I'm aware that the original R-v-B had solid leadership, great members and was a great place to pvp but that is not what I saw.
I was told to join Blue and saw red BC blobs, smacktalk, people dropping cans at undock and blue playing docking games in BS while I was moving my stuff. Go to Alentene and Tourier at Euro primetime if you don't believe me. In fact, a quick look at the killboards will tell you what R-v-B is. Using Drakes and faction cruisers to shoot frigates seem to be the order of the day.
FW is miles better than R-v-B. |
Chrome Molly
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2010.07.05 09:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rmage Gemmell R-v-B is great because I like to shoot frigates in a Hurricane. All newbies should bring their frigates to alentene so I can shoot them as they undock.
Is what your stats say
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Wiccerakith
Absinthe Brothers
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Posted - 2010.07.05 10:00:00 -
[28]
RvB is FW in a smaller scale and with rules.
Go RvB to learn how to kill, go FW to learn how to survive (and smack ).
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Allbrecht
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.05 16:52:00 -
[29]
I have done both FW and RVB. RVB is better. I'm a pretty casual EVE pilot. I play maybe 2 or 3 days for 2 or 3 hours.
This is how my life has been in FW and in RVB: (To be fair, I did FW when it first started -- when there were a lot more pilots and it was *supposedly* more fun.)
FW: Log-in, get into a fleet maybe being FC'd by someone decent, and maybe with some other pilots who weren't totally dumb. Fly around in low security space taking over "complexes" which mean nothing anyway. Fear for my life every gate jump since 3rd party pirates are all around anyway. Then after maybe an hour or two of flying around, MAYBE find out there's another enemy fleet near. Then a few things could happen:
1. Our fleet chickens out because we are outnumbered/outgunned etc etc. 2. The other fleet chickens out because they are outnumebred/outgunned etc etc. 3. The fleets actually do engage and you either die or you live.
Summary: FW requires more organization, and you'll get 1 fight 1/3 of the time which will more than likely require hours of your time. You might crush the other team or you might get crushed.
RVB: Log-in and by asking in the RVB/corp channel I can immediately find out if something organized is going on. If something is going on/getting organized, I can know that within 15 minutes (MAX) there WILL 100% be a roughly equal engagement and more than likely be repeats afterward as well. If something is not getting organized, I just hop into the ship of my choosing and hop a max of 2 jumps and check out the enemy headquarters.
At that point, it is up to YOU if you want to fight or not. The enemy will be there, it's just at your discretion if you want to engage knowing you'll be outnumbered and maybe outgunned. If all else fails, you can always just challenge a 1v1 in rvb. Most people will accept. But be prepared to fight against 20mil frigs.
Now, also keep in mind this does not include 3rd party war targets (People who war dec red/blue corporations). 3rd party targets are ALWAYS around. And many of these 3rd party war targets actually end up joining RVB eventually because they see it is a lot of fun.
Summary: if something is organized, you'll get at least 3 FAIR fights per hour. If not, you choose your own fights. 3rd party targets are always available too.
Yes, in FW there are no strip/mod restrictions. Although in RVB there technically isn't a ship restriction, most fights happen in frigs/cruisers. People who fly in BC's generally are flying solo and try to pick off dumb frigate/cruiser pilots. When fleets are being formed for a RVB clash, if one team has more pilots, we balance this by letting someone else in the less numbered fleet to fly a bigger ship. ECM is not allowed in RVB unless you're on the grid of your HQ.
RVB is organized fun. Yes, smack talk happens and station camping happens occasionally. It happens everywhere. Most of the time smack talk comes from someone who has just been in RVB for a day or two and feels powerful because he killed a cruiser solo. The funny thing is though, dozens and dozens of frigates and cruisers are destroyed on a DAILY basis.
JOIN RVB!
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greentusk
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Posted - 2010.07.05 18:23:00 -
[30]
RvB is awesome. Join up now.
Red have no honor |
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Amitor
Minmatar Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:44:00 -
[31]
Blue needs more targe... pilots! |
greentusk
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Posted - 2010.07.06 10:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Amitor Blue needs more targe... pilots!
Amitor needs to blob more.
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Leperoutcast
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Posted - 2010.07.06 10:57:00 -
[33]
Well I've tried both RvB and FW.
FW just smelt to me too much like 0.0 megablob boredom, waiting around for hours while another couple of people log in to join up, then blob chasing blob, 100+ lagfests etcetc. Maybe my view is skewed as I only tried it for a while after it started.
RvB is a lot more fun, decent sized groups of up to about 20, very regular action. This will give you a better PvP experience, plus youll not be expected to fly anything above a cruiser so its all cheap too.
Another thing you might consider, just as an aside, is agony unleashed schools, veryvery good training there.
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eddie valvetino
Caldari Bi-Polar Bears
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Posted - 2010.07.06 13:28:00 -
[34]
I've been in FW from nearly day one, apart from a short break in 0.0 and some time BANE.
I have never been in RvB, but i have had lots of corp mates you were and came back to FW.
I think the reason is simple, RvB is an awesome concept, and does provide great high sec pvp, but from what i have been told, it's a little to much like SISI pvp, the guys i have spoken to could get "invested" in it the same way they did in FW
Corp faction, while they might respect each other, really don't like each other at all... to the point of pure white hot hatred, which tends to make the victories and loses that much more intense.
but as far pure pvp, i'm not sure there is a great deal in it
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) |
Ravenclaw2kk
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Posted - 2010.07.06 16:39:00 -
[35]
I have been in 0.0. Dullest place ever with unimaginable lag. i ended up stuck in a single system for a month and just played around on my industrial character there was so little to do.
RvB is great, cheap, clean fun. Sometimes a little waiting for peak hours if u are after the fleet fights or lo/null - sec roams. However you can get 1v1's anytime, even if it's with other corpmates. It's also great if you don;t have unlimited isk as u can fly around in cheapo t1 frigs and also the guys are pretty honourable, if u agree to fight to hull or whatever you don't have to lose your ship. When i was there most peeps would also offer to give the mods from the wreck back after losing.
3rd party wars can be even more fun as you get to fleet together with the other corps and really see the FCs shine. Although being station camped during lo-period with no insta can be kinda gay.
I'm a little biased as i have only been in RvB and never FW. but i don;t have the time to spend in FW like a lot of the players. Also not having mumble is a big disadvantage :(
I am planning on getting back into RvB fairly soonish and maybe move on to FW after that. I will never go back to 0.0 unless by some miracle it becomes less laggy or less blobby.
iiwu i'd start with RvB, see if u like it and when u feel you've had enough try FW.
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Torothin
Shadow Morning
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Posted - 2010.07.06 19:10:00 -
[36]
again I am going to mention that real pvp in EVE has not set rules. it is no even number pvp paradise. Go ahead and go R V B then when you get tired of it, move out to 0.0, and start sucking at pvp because the playing field is not "even" or you don't know what the enemy has up his sleeve, so you get ganked, come back to me so I can say I told you so.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.06 21:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Torothin again I am going to mention that real pvp in EVE has not set rules. it is no even number pvp paradise. Go ahead and go R V B then when you get tired of it, move out to 0.0, and start sucking at pvp because the playing field is not "even" or you don't know what the enemy has up his sleeve, so you get ganked, come back to me so I can say I told you so.
Please explain to me how experience fighting roughly equal opponents is somehow going to cripple your ability to beat the inferior forces that most null/low seccers seem to prefer engaging?
I mean lets face it it doesn't take much talent for a HAC blob to take out a single T1 industrial.
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Torothin
Shadow Morning
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:44:00 -
[38]
At the same time. It doesn't require much skill to have set gangs and know exactly what you are going to go up against. That type of PvP is flawed. I'm just going by what people above have stated.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:04:00 -
[39]
tbh, you wanna know about pvp and yourself, join a FW NPC corp and start soloing, moving from frigs and upward as you get good. if you're a good solo pilot and you can follow orders, you wont suck in a fleet.
Quote:
Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
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ExiledMoon
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Posted - 2010.07.07 02:01:00 -
[40]
In the first few hours of being a member, I've had every ship I've owned blasted out from under me and couldn't have had more fun doing it :)
I'm blue, and have been getting advice from both my corp mates AND the boys from Red.
Awesome. Just awesome.
~M
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Aerion Va'rr
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.20 13:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Torothin again I am going to mention that real pvp in EVE has not set rules. it is no even number pvp paradise. Go ahead and go R V B then when you get tired of it, move out to 0.0, and start sucking at pvp because the playing field is not "even" or you don't know what the enemy has up his sleeve, so you get ganked, come back to me so I can say I told you so.
Because when you first went out to 0.0 you were 'pure pvp-awesome sauce' right? In life, if you have stopped learning, you have died. What makes EvE different? If someone new jumps into FW right now, are they going to learn how to PvP quicker? or are they going to drown trying to soak up everything at once? Noone said RvB was an express lane to PvP Supremacy, Its not an academy; we will however, help the inexperienced out in anyway we can. Obviously our fits are different than LowSec/0.0 Fits. Yes we primary Rifters. Yes 90% of us are KM *****s. Yes, most of us have HG Slaves and Faction Ships laying about.
No- not a single one of us needs or wants any sort of validation from anyone not in RvB about the way we play the game. Theres no set way to 'PvP' in EvE its all based on what you want to do. Not everyone wants to go to 0.0, not everyone wants to go to LowSec, most people don't want to even touch FW after they read a few of the 'blah blah blah QQ FW is broken blah blah blah' threads.
RvB is great for what it is, its fun more often than not, and when its not fun, people step up and organize events and whatnot to find new and unusual ways to kill each other. Its what we do.
Saying you can't learn PvP in RvB is like saying you can't learn to swim in the Ocean by swimming in a Pool (OMG theres freaking sharks and tides and stuff).
TL;DR. Get over this Fascist FW/0.0 is the only PvP Nonsense.
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Ghaylenty
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Posted - 2010.07.20 15:02:00 -
[42]
RVB is -way- more carebear oriented. It's great for the casuals who can't hack it in the real pvp gangs. I'm sure they can blob as well as anyone else in their "purple" ops but their whole intention is to take out the random factor of pvp that makes roaming so great.
RVB will not teach you about being chased, chasing, or surviving in a hostile environment. It might teach you basic pvp skills that (unless you're a carebear) you would pick up in time anywhere else.
But RVB pilots don't come here telling us how your pvp experiences are valid whatsoever outside of RVB, because they aren't. RVB doesn't have to deal with spies, intel, roaming, logistics, etc.
The truth is FW is a much more 'serious' form of pvp and it is far more challenging, and rewarding, in all aspects.
RVB appeals to people who either can't be assed to go find their pvp, or are just that bad they can't get their own pvp without getting killed. Ironically, these people will never learn the skills required to survive and succeed outside of RVB. i actually fly amarr |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.20 16:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ghaylenty RVB is -way- more carebear oriented. It's great for the casuals who can't hack it in the real pvp gangs. I'm sure they can blob as well as anyone else in their "purple" ops but their whole intention is to take out the random factor of pvp that makes roaming so great.
RVB will not teach you about being chased, chasing, or surviving in a hostile environment. It might teach you basic pvp skills that (unless you're a carebear) you would pick up in time anywhere else.
But RVB pilots don't come here telling us how your pvp experiences are valid whatsoever outside of RVB, because they aren't. RVB doesn't have to deal with spies, intel, roaming, logistics, etc.
The truth is FW is a much more 'serious' form of pvp and it is far more challenging, and rewarding, in all aspects.
RVB appeals to people who either can't be assed to go find their pvp, or are just that bad they can't get their own pvp without getting killed. Ironically, these people will never learn the skills required to survive and succeed outside of RVB.
Congratulations Captain Obvious for pointing out stuff that everyone knows full well and admits too.
Obviously you are very good at being chased (not so sure on the surviving part)and obviously your still working on the killing part.
RVB is different from other PVP in EVE that's the whole f-ing point behind it. It was created by people who wanted a place to be able to find fights easily.
So that's what we do. We don't pretend to be anything else. It's a player created arena where people can come in get a little PVP fix then go about their merry way.
It just happens to be a great place to get your feet wet and there is enough of a mix of people that you can learn about other aspects of the game from people who are experienced with them.
No one pretends for one second that you're going to gain all the skills to survive in low sec in RVB. Then again you aren't going to learn all the skills to survive null in low either are you? I mean with the no bubbles or bombs and all?
But that doesn't mean you aren't going to learn some of the skills needed. I know a hell of a lot more about the various ships people fly, Their strengths/weaknesses, how they are fit what works what doesn't.
I know for instance that a dual repped punisher with no resit mods or cap boosters isn't going to tank much before going down. I know that engaging a wolf in such a ship is probably not going to end well for me and would probably represent a good chance to practice those running away skills.
FW is different we know this, it much more "serious business" than RVB. And someday when I'm bored with RVB I may even give it a try then people can point and laugh at what a poor PVPer this RVB vet is. In the end it doesn't matter as long as I'm having fun.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.21 06:14:00 -
[44]
From the perspective of how 'real' pvp in EVE is, RVB is a special case, it cannot compare to FW, and it cannot compare to lowsec/0.0, because many fights are arranged. I'd go even further than that and say that RVB provides a pod safe environment which is in a way detrimental to the new player in EVE, especially when you ask for a frigate 1;1 and end up fighting some 18k ehp Punisher ... :PVP:. We all know that pilot with 2b isk implants in his head will never put himself in a situation where he can lose them. However, there are some very good things about RVB. You have 2j out a corp that is willing to fight you, with up to 30 ppl online in peak tz's. Arranged fights of equal gangs can be a very powerfull learning experience, because even in a 10vs10 just one pilot's actions can shift the entire fight. Most ppl in RVB are actually alts, from some 0.0 alliance and you see how these ppl get a crashcourse in frig and cruiser pvp. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Koyo Zerin
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 06:30:00 -
[45]
Another factor that may or may not affect your decision is whether or not your timezone and/or schedule make it easy or convenient for you to log in after downtime. Because of how FW plex mechanics work, the hour or so immediately after downtime is far and away more fun than the rest of the day. There are usually fleets in all militias rushing to capture plexes and being far more willing to fight each other. My fondest memories of FW all took place in the post-DT rush.
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TwiggyHazz
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Posted - 2010.07.21 08:03:00 -
[46]
OH HAI GUISE
Basically I were a PVP noob, went to RvB, now im alright at pvp xD
Most of our stuff is cruiser and below, but we do get bored from time to time and get the shinys out xD
http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7176734
This was a rather good kill from blues, not to say reds where at fault in various paces but their 20 man cruiser gang really came out of nowhere xD
But yeah, its not serious pvp but its fun and its a bloody good learning curve.
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Helmh0ltz
future of humankind HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.22 06:17:00 -
[47]
RvB is a ton of fun. I would recommend it for someone who wants low-drama CONSTANT pvp. ====== Your signature is freakishly huge for this forum. Please resize according to the forum rules, thanks. Shadow. |
Aerion Va'rr
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.22 13:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ghaylenty RVB is -way- more carebear oriented. It's great for the casuals who can't hack it in the real pvp gangs. I'm sure they can blob as well as anyone else in their "purple" ops but their whole intention is to take out the random factor of pvp that makes roaming so great.
RVB will not teach you about being chased, chasing, or surviving in a hostile environment. It might teach you basic pvp skills that (unless you're a carebear) you would pick up in time anywhere else.
But RVB pilots don't come here telling us how your pvp experiences are valid whatsoever outside of RVB, because they aren't. RVB doesn't have to deal with spies, intel, roaming, logistics, etc.
The truth is FW is a much more 'serious' form of pvp and it is far more challenging, and rewarding, in all aspects.
RVB appeals to people who either can't be assed to go find their pvp, or are just that bad they can't get their own pvp without getting killed. Ironically, these people will never learn the skills required to survive and succeed outside of RVB.
So essentially, what your saying is..
All the High-Sec Wardec corps, don't actually engage in PvP.. All the FW People that go on Suicide Dessie runs into enemy territory, again, arn't PeeVeePeeing?
So are gate guns and 200 man blobs the definitive here? Or is your definition of PvP (Player Vs. Player) somehow defined in the way that YOU see it? Pods are relatively safe. We chase each other, not every engagement is arranged, we use scouts, we use probes, we use everything that most Low Sec people use.
Oh wait. We don't have Spy's.
But other than that, I'd love to see a run down of the difference between High Sec and Low Sec PvP Aside from gate guns and sec status loss.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.07.22 15:09:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Oh wait. We don't have Spy's.
I find it ironic that people are pointing out this as one of the faults of RvB when a lot of FW'ers are crying on the forums that alt spies are destroying FW.
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Aerion Va'rr
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: James Tritanius
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Oh wait. We don't have Spy's.
I find it ironic that people are pointing out this as one of the faults of RvB when a lot of FW'ers are crying on the forums that alt spies are destroying FW.
RvB doesn't have spies really. And if someone tries its typically easily spotted by a quick KB check.. Character 1 day old, in RvB less than a day... hmm...
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Lock out
Bi-Polar Bears
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Posted - 2010.07.22 17:20:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Lock out on 22/07/2010 17:21:13 Edited by: Lock out on 22/07/2010 17:20:54 Imo PVP quality is determined by 3 factors. Fun , pilot skill and consequence.
- 0.0 has a lot of consequence, good pilot skill which usually can't be put to use cos it's a numers battle, and very little fun (alarm clock ops, drama, large fleets, etc.)
- RvB is a lot of fun due to instant action , so and so pilot skill and very little consequence (no podding, cheap ships, etc.)
- FW has a decent number of good pilots tired of 0.0 lagfests, reasonable consequence as fielded ships are more expensive then in RvB and increasingly more fun since fights and skirms are very often.
That's about it, and for me FW balances the 3 factors best. For other ppl low consequence pvp (which is the major RvB drawback imo) can be a good thing though. (cough : cheapskates )
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.22 17:54:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 22/07/2010 17:56:15
Originally by: Lock out Edited by: Lock out on 22/07/2010 17:21:13 Edited by: Lock out on 22/07/2010 17:20:54 Imo PVP quality is determined by 3 factors. Fun , pilot skill and consequence.
- RvB is a lot of fun due to instant action , so and so pilot skill and very little consequence (no podding, cheap ships, etc.)
That's about it, and for me FW balances the 3 factors best. For other ppl low consequence pvp (which is the major RvB drawback imo) can be a good thing though. (cough : cheapskates )
Yeah because no one flies expensive ships in RVB and no one flies anything cheap in FW.
People fly what they can afford to lose where ever they are PVPing. The frigs I fly cost about 16 mil isk fit out and I lose a lot of them. lower cost of loss per engagement means more fights for the same amount of isk. It also means less risk aversion which leads to more action. One is naturally going to be more cautious in a 200mil isk BS than one will be in a 16 mil isk frig. Which means that one will pass on fights in the more expensive ship that one wouldn't in the cheaper.
Risk is also relative. Generally a pilot who's flying cheap T1 fit frigates has less overall wealth than the ones flying the 2bil isk faction battleships. As such proportionally they may be risking just as big a portion of their wealth and the Faction BS pilot.
Risk and consequences are meaningless in this discussion. the no podding rule simply results in more pilots putting more expensive implants in their clones than they would in a pod popping environment. Accidents happen and 3rd party WTs don't respect the no podding rule so while the chance of loss might be lower in RVB the amount risked is generally much greater.
I've lost a set of HG slaves in the "pod safe" environment of RVB so don't lecture about consequence.
As far as pilot skill honestly except regarding experience with specific mechanics and meta-gaming I don't think there is probably that much difference. I've seen killmails from low/nul sec pilots who are obviously clueless and there are plenty of highly skilled pilots in RVB (I don't consider myself one of them) many of whom are also skilled low/nul sec pilots.
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Lock out
Bi-Polar Bears
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Posted - 2010.07.22 18:44:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Lock out on 22/07/2010 18:46:13 Corporation details - Red Federation [R-FED]
Damage done (ISK):336.52B
Corporation details - Bi-Polar Bears [BI-PO]
Damage done (ISK):368.24B
One new (functioning from april this year) FW corp has killed more isk wise then the entire R FED.
That doesn't mean we're better (ofc we are), just that on average there is more isk put on the line and lost on a daily basis in FW then in RvB . Fact.
Not saying it's better with more isk on the line less fights or the other way around, just pointing out what the differences are and what suits me better.
And risk and consequence aren't meaningless in this discution. They might be meaningless to you, but they are not meaningless for me and I'm sure they're not for other ppl either
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.22 21:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lock out Edited by: Lock out on 22/07/2010 18:46:13 Corporation details - Red Federation [R-FED]
Damage done (ISK):336.52B
Corporation details - Bi-Polar Bears [BI-PO]
Damage done (ISK):368.24B
One new (functioning from april this year) FW corp has killed more isk wise then the entire R FED.
That doesn't mean we're better (ofc we are), just that on average there is more isk put on the line and lost on a daily basis in FW then in RvB . Fact.
Not saying it's better with more isk on the line less fights or the other way around, just pointing out what the differences are and what suits me better.
And risk and consequence aren't meaningless in this discution. They might be meaningless to you, but they are not meaningless for me and I'm sure they're not for other ppl either
And I still say risk is relative. FW has a lot more opportunities to generate isk which is to say there are some where as RVB is pretty much a money sink.
Now I do agree that they are different flavors of combat and I admit that on average higher value ships are fielded but you got a whopping 6864 targets out of that while we killed over 22 thousand. that's a hell of a lot more fighting.
But I do agree that the two activities are different flavors and have different pros and cons. RVB is a bit more contrived and more for fun. Members aren't fighting for anything but just to get fights we don't have to worry about spies we don't have any sorts of mandatory ops (don't know if you do or not)
And it is true that in general we prefer less expensive ships in order to maximize fight opportunities while I suspect you probably prefer more expensive ships to maximize victory chances. We stick mainly to Frigate hulls (which are generally lower in price compared to what you are flying).
And in the type of warfare you engage in you probably are better we're not structured for large coordinated ops we're set up more for small gang warfare.
You probably also have some relatively high SP requirements. While we take anyone and everyone who wants some pew pew.
Also you are talking about the performance of one of the top FW corps (very serious business) which I suspect is not typical or representative of the majority of those involved in faction war.
Because of the way we fight ship loss is generally a higher probability compared to the way you fight. You obviously pick and chose your fights relatively carefully while we go at each other with abandon.
This combined with the generally lower experience level SP and game wise in RVB compared to an organization such as your corp is going have an effect on the average cost of ships put on the line.
Also you aren't exactly the place a PVP newb is going to be headed the instant they join FW are you? What was that I read on your corps bio "Recruitment - strictly Invite only, don't ask we don't want to have to say no"
Yeah not exactly typical experience for the new FW pilot is it?
Like I've said through out all these threads, I don't deny that FW and RVB are different beasts. One is just about fighting for fun the other is a much more "serious" endeavor where you are all concerned about efficiency and and victory than we are.
You're goals are long reaching and involve inflicting maximum isk damage on your opponents. Our goals are generally personal and involve having fun and getting experience.
I personally don't undestand the animosity between some of the FW proponents and RVB. As has been pointed out RVB's combat is contrived and I suspect will eventually get stale for all of us. At some point after that happens we'll venture out into other area's of the game. Some of us will even go into faction warfare and bring those skills gained in RVB to FW.
And don't tell me that being able to follow order fit decent ships keep your cool under fire and shoot the f-ing primary aren't skills than your FC's want in their fleets.
RVB is more newbie friendly, not saying that FW is bad.
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