Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 09/07/2010 19:35:56
In these days of metagaming, IP tracking and general all around skullduggery it's no wonder a lot of CCP Staff stay away from major entities due to the :drama: it could cause. When I spoke to some fellows they were pretty wary about joining Eve Voice in FW fleets because their voices might be recognized.

The potential fallout from someone finding out and it being publicly revealed that such'n'such corp/alliance has a Dev or GM in it's ranks, even if they were a lowly tower jockey or miner would be a massive source of drama.

Saying that, given the woeful lack of knowledge in some areas displayed by some GMs/Devs and the general disconnect that staff have with the actual population of the game I think it's necessary for CCP to encourage more staff to get involved in actually playing the game, especially in areas in which they are involved in developing. You can't hope to sort out problems unless you have experienced them yourself in some degree.

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 09/07/2010 19:35:56
In these days of metagaming, IP tracking and general all around skullduggery it's no wonder a lot of CCP Staff stay away from major entities due to the :drama: it could cause. When I spoke to some fellows they were pretty wary about joining Eve Voice in FW fleets because their voices might be recognized.

The potential fallout from someone finding out and it being publicly revealed that such'n'such corp/alliance has a Dev or GM in it's ranks, even if they were a lowly tower jockey or miner would be a massive source of drama.

Saying that, given the woeful lack of knowledge in some areas displayed by some GMs/Devs and the general disconnect that staff have with the actual population of the game I think it's necessary for CCP to encourage more staff to get involved in actually playing the game, especially in areas in which they are involved in developing. You can't hope to sort out problems unless you have experienced them yourself in some degree.

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There are so many ways a dev can insulate themselves from the risk of getting busted that there is just no excuse. And add to that the fact that they can get their characters renamed and get a clean slate anyways. sure, they can't lose anything if they don't play, but then they don't have anything in the first place.

unless you have a totally outrageous accent or are a girl, chances are nobody will recognize your voice. i go on people's comms with my spy alt and talk like normal and nobody recognizes my voice.

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Originally by: Ander

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I will offer free anonymization services (VPN) for any dev who'd like to play EVE again, or surf kugutsume'n unimposed.

Wash your IP of that filthy ccp hostname ;)

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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I think if I could only get behind a single issue for the rest of all my possible CSM terms, I think that this would be the one. We need devs to get back to playing EVE. It is pretty clear that sometimes in statements made by devs about game mechanics, you can get the sense that they don't really play the game, or at least they don't play with the same part of the game they work with.

I don't want to mention names because it would be unproductive and I would not be able to back up accusations with their actual activity level in eve, but I think that there is a problem of devs not playing the game- especially after the t20 scandals and devs getting outed. I'm sorry that some of you devs got traumatized over EVE and don't think you'll enjoy coming back, but that was three years ago, and EVE needs you now. It won't be hard to get back into whatever part of the game is relevant to any dev's job. Even 0.0 sov warfare- if I can get in bull**** alts to major alliances, dev characters can get in too. Microsoft Excel is not EVE PVP, and the test server is not EVE Sovereignty.

We don't need them to play EVE at the expense of their work time or family time. We don't need to name and shame any devs who don't play EVE. All we need is for the creators of the game to experience the unpredictable end results of their creations, so that when they get back to the drawing board they will be more passionate and articulate about what exactly needs to be done to make the game more fun. This is part of their job. Devs balancing PVP should get into PVP alliances. Devs balancing Sov should get into powerbloc alliances. Devs balancing missions should join a missionrunner corp. If they get outed as a dev, well it's unfortunate but at least they know what the dangers are and they can take precautions.

and for all the devs that still play eve: thanks, you guys are awesome. You are doing your job.

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Originally by: ChrisIsherwood

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stuff

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Originally by: Persepoli

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Can I get you to come over and be my vacuum cleaner? I need your sucking up power to get the hard to get at dirt that is deep in the shag pile

Or are you still lording it over the "Deaf B*tch gets kicked off CSM" posting kudos . Good to see the calibre of the representative members of the CSM going up in quality

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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Edited by: mazzilliu on 10/07/2010 04:33:40

Originally by: ChrisIsherwood

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stuff

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1 - when i was in iceland for the csm there were devs playing counterstrike(or whatever fps game) as well as shooting each other with nerf guns and stuff. they have recreational time at work. how much time is required or encouraged is just a smaller detail and not a dealbreaker and something for their management to work out.

2 - not my call, eve is a sandbox for devs too. i'm not really one to micromanage.

3- not strictly relevant in my opinion.

4- devs already have characters(at least, usually. they get to keep their player characters from before ccp). when we were given the updated "new player experience" presentation, for example in csm3, the people that worked on that all seemed to have a thorough knowledge of the tutorial both from experiencing it(presumably, with new characters) and through diagnostic tools used to monitor new players' behaviors while using the tutorial. so now at least eve's new player experience might not rank as most difficult ever, but maybe third or fourth most difficult ever.

on the other hand the new sov system was created by somebody who clearly did not ever spend eight hours shooting a station. as a punishment for doing something like that to us, they should be forced to participate in capturing a region.

Originally by: Persepoli

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Can I get you to come over and be my vacuum cleaner? I need your sucking up power to get the hard to get at dirt that is deep in the shag pile

Or are you still lording it over the "Deaf B*tch gets kicked off CSM" posting kudos . Good to see the calibre of the representative members of the CSM going up in quality

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my happiness rests on the misfortune of others

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Originally by: ChrisIsherwood

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Sure seems reasonable and sounds great.

But let me give you the counter-arguments:

1) Are you saying this is important enough that you would have the devs play at work? So instead of spending 40 or 60 or whatever hours/week developing EVE and fixing lag, they would spend fewer hours working on developing EVE? Or is the proposal just to extract unpaid effort from the devs? And if you can extract the extra hours from them, wouldn't those hours be better spent on, for example, fixing lag? Regardless, considering the crunch CCP is now in (quality + DUST + INCARNA + lag ) I suspect proposals that would divert resources have an uphill climb. While I certainly would appreciate the irony, do you really want a dev taking 40 hours of their life that could be spent developing EVE in clicking on PI things and grinding missions to replace their ship? Taking 20 minutes to fly someone by mindlessly clicking WT0 is a mindless time sink. Once you get your PI network designed and laid out, then logging into each character and doing several dozen double clicks per planet per character is a mindless time sink. By Design. I think the employees time clearly would be better spent developing software.

2) Also, "playing EVE" may not be enough. Would 20 hours of station trading and mining a week give a dev much insight into 1500 vs 1500 fleet battles? Or vice versa for that matter?

3) There are already a number of T20/CCP gave NC super cap/... comments. Is everyone going to believe everything is a completely level playing field? (I would but there are a number of tinfoil hats about) If as am employee I a, required to play EVE, and the ship I spent 2x$35 on get destroyed by some lolsuicideganker, then is that a reimbursable business expense?

4) Remember that skill system? Should CCP the developers who are working on MoMs and Titans the skills and ISK to fly one ASAP? solving #2 but exacerbating #3 above? Or should they be required to play EVE, yet it might be many many months before they can fly what is related to their development effort?

N.B. The following is mostly humor with a touch of troll but a sprinkling of truth: a lot of the interaction in EVE is about hurting other people. When a dev is under the time-crunch I hope they are under now, then how uplifting would it be to come home after 12+ hours at the office and get conned/ganked/suicided? Maybe the PI clicking was designed by a developer who got his Tengu ganked at a gatecamp and thought "I'll show those a**hats: lets see how they like a few thousand clicks a day to fuel their POS" I just think an EVE developer would treat EVE customers better if (s)he never met them. just saying.

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