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Trying to work out the math on this

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.15 02:54:00 - [1] Strangely seems to make perfect sense
silly person	Posted - 2010.07.15 03:01:00 - [2] Makes sense in theory.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.15 03:10:00 - [3] Don't strain yourself. 1 million + 1 million does in fact = 2 million also It does take 1 year for light to travel 1 light year --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.15 04:52:00 - [4] in theory, yeah. As a matter of fact, in battlefield earth, they (humans) use a incredibly long distance transporter technology to transport a (really fancy) camera to a point in space to see what happened in the past.. but practically. Honestly, how good angling would you have to have to use a mirror like that? and not to mention just to get the mirror to 1m ly out anyway.. Originally by: CCP Shadow Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
ReaperOfSly Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.15 05:57:00 - [5] Also of course you wouldn't be able to observe a point in time before the mirror was launched. ____________________
Shade Millith Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.15 06:38:00 - [6] You'd also have to wait 1 million years to view a new area whenever you moved the mirror. ------------------------
BiggestT Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.07.15 06:44:00 - [7] Edited by: BiggestT on 15/07/2010 06:44:43 Too bad the mirror would have to be magnitudes greater in size than our sun and the relfection angle that properly conveys an observable image back to Earth would be nearly impossible to define without some kind of method to manipulate matter on an atomic scale... But otherwise, it's a great idea! EVE Trivia EVE History
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2010.07.15 19:13:00 - [8] It's like the theory about finding something with an enormous amount of mass in space that it has bent light coming towards it backwards, and therefore should be sending something from the past back at you. Just like being able to see stars behind the sun because of the mass, but on a grander scale, and much much farther away. AK EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS
Yuki Katsumura Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.07.15 19:53:00 - [9] The problem with this being that it would be nearly impossible to discern Earth from the Sun at a distance of 1 million light years (hell, just a few would make us effectively invisible). On the other hand, if the details of Earth could be discerned you would be able to see into the past (assuming you deposited the mirror by using FTL travel). Another problem is that you'd only be able to view the planet from one frame of reference come hell or high water, as the surface area of the sphere the mirror is lying in is 5.02654825 + 10^13 lightyears. This is soooo not Zions Child's Alt because he sooooo did not get a ban for soooooo not trolling one of Ekrid's sooo not a troll post. True. Story.
ReaperOfSly Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.15 21:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Yuki Katsumura The problem with this being that it would be nearly impossible to discern Earth from the Sun at a distance of 1 million light years (hell, just a few would make us effectively invisible). You wouldn't even be able to discern the sun from the galaxy. ____________________

Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.15 22:47:00 - [11] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Yuki Katsumura The problem with this being that it would be nearly impossible to discern Earth from the Sun at a distance of 1 million light years (hell, just a few would make us effectively invisible). You wouldn't even be able to discern the sun from the galaxy. That's what the telescope is for, dumbasses
Culmen Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.07.15 23:51:00 - [12] Edited by: Culmen on 15/07/2010 23:52:19 At 1 million light years, you'd be hardpressed to detect the sun. The Sun has a luminosity of 3.827e26W As it is a wave form, the photons will interfere with them selves and begin to defract Thus it is subject to the equation I = P/A I is intensity P is the power of the sun A is the area of effect In this case it is the surface area of a sphere 1 million light years in radius 1 million light years = 9.4605284 e 21 meters A = 4 pi r squared A = 4 pi 8.950159760720656 e 43 A = 1.1247092961072962273216e+45 square meters Intensity of the sun at 1 million light years is thus 3.402e-19 watts per square meter What does this mean? Well assuming the energy of a photon is E= h f h is planck's constant = 6.63 10-34 J s f is the frequencey of light we shall take the most commonly emmited light frequency 5.77 e14 hz (green light) thus the energy of a single photon is 3.825e-19 j thus on average it will take a mirror with an area of 1.12 square meters to deflect a single photon every second. So plug in your mirror size there. Remeber its going to keep on scattering on the way back, so calculate the reflected power on the mirror But lets be nice and put your detector 1 million light years away according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Photon-noise.jpg To generate a 640x480 image of the sun with perfect camera (quantum efficiency = 1, no read-noise, no thermal noise, etc). you would need 307,200 photons 307200photons x 1.12 square meters per photon = 344,064 square meters thus to get a 640x480 image of the sun 1 million light years away you'd need a collector with an 344,064 square meters wide or roughly 586.56 meters wide And this is the sun at 1 million light years. you'd need to calculate the specularity of the earth, calculate the scattering on the way there then get the size of the mirror, re calculate the scattering on the way back, then find the collector size. now somebody dig up the intensity of cosmic back ground radiation to show .3 attowatts is indistinguisable from back ground radiation and further more why do i even need a sig?
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.07.15 23:58:00 - [13] The information needs 1 million years to get there, which will also pass for us. Another 1 million to come back, so you'd see 1 million years into the past, not 2 million. I know that the whole thing is theoretical and would not be practically applicable, so don't sweat it. Item DB \| Sigs
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.16 06:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Culmen Edited by: Culmen on 16/07/2010 00:06:34 Edited by: Culmen on 16/07/2010 00:02:42 At 1 million light years, you'd be hardpressed to detect the sun. The Sun has a luminosity of 3.827e26W As it is a wave form, the photons will interfere with them selves and begin to defract Thus it is subject to the equation I = P/A I is intensity P is the power of the sun A is the area of effect In this case it is the surface area of a sphere 1 million light years in radius 1 million light years = 9.4605284 e 21 meters A = 4 pi r squared A = 4 pi 8.950159760720656 e 43 A = 1.1247092961072962273216e+45 square meters Intensity of the sun at 1 million light years is thus 3.402e-19 watts per square meter What does this mean? Well assuming the energy of a photon is E= h f h is planck's constant = 6.63 10-34 J s f is the frequencey of light we shall take the most commonly emmited light frequency 5.77 e14 hz (green light) thus the energy of a single photon is 3.825e-19 j thus on average it will take a mirror with an area of 1.12 square meters to deflect a single photon every second. So plug in your mirror size there. Remeber its going to keep on scattering on the way back, so calculate the reflected power on the mirror But lets be nice and put your detector 1 million light years away according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Photon-noise.jpg To generate a 640x480 image of the sun with perfect camera (quantum efficiency = 1, no read-noise, no thermal noise, etc). you would need 307,200 photons This is an extremely grainy image (1 photon per pixel) 307200photons x 1.12 square meters per photon = 344,064 square meters thus to get a 640x480 image of the sun 1 million light years away you'd need a collector with an 344,064 square meters wide or roughly 586.56 meters wide And this is the sun at 1 million light years. you'd need to calculate the specularity of the earth, calculate the scattering on the way there then get the size of the mirror, re calculate the scattering on the way back, then find the collector size. now somebody dig up the intensity of cosmic back ground radiation to show .3 attowatts is indistinguisable from back ground radiation PS.at 640x480 each pixel represents 19,815,515.85 square kilometers of area or a square 4 451.46 km on each side or about 3 quarters the size of the earth PPS this is from a basic college level physics stand point. I know theres an equation from astronmy that dictates the maximum effective size of a optical telescope. But im not sure what it is, if somebody can dig it up, more power to you. Last word Now you are going to have to state how big is a "really big" mirror and/or what kind of resolution you want to see the past in. Spotted the virgin in the thread!
Exploding Tukey Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.16 16:46:00 - [15] So.. Assuming we can place a mirror there NOW... We need to wait a million years for the information to reach us. And of coarse the massive post above assumes there is no interference, no other photons hitting this several kilometer mirror. Myth busted? <Signature Type="Clever" Width=100% Height=5 Edible="No" />


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