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AB size for BC/destroyers?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2004.12.18 17:31:00 - [1] So tell me again which one i supposed to use in say Ferox? Which one is penalized less? 100MN seems to be takin too much pg these days for the tanking setup ship, and bonus speed from 10MN one is too low (im gettin like 90% from t2 10MN AB, while description says 145%) ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2004.12.18 17:31:00 - [2] So tell me again which one i supposed to use in say Ferox? Which one is penalized less? 100MN seems to be takin too much pg these days for the tanking setup ship, and bonus speed from 10MN one is too low (im gettin like 90% from t2 10MN AB, while description says 145%) ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
Aksama	Posted - 2004.12.18 17:43:00 - [3] You're getting 90% Thrust because your mass is larger than the tech II AB produces, is produces 15,000,000N of thrust, and if a ship is exactly 15,000,000Kg (since 1N=energy to move 1kg 1ms) then you'll get 145% Thrust, I think if you're getting 90% thrust your ship mass is around 22,000,000kg right? I'm not sure if I calculated it right but it should be around there. Honestly, I think it makes sense that you can only get 90-100% increased speed on a BC, it's a BC! I'ts not supposed to be whirling around at 600-700mps, it just doesn't make sense.
Aksama	Posted - 2004.12.18 17:43:00 - [4] You're getting 90% Thrust because your mass is larger than the tech II AB produces, is produces 15,000,000N of thrust, and if a ship is exactly 15,000,000Kg (since 1N=energy to move 1kg 1ms) then you'll get 145% Thrust, I think if you're getting 90% thrust your ship mass is around 22,000,000kg right? I'm not sure if I calculated it right but it should be around there. Honestly, I think it makes sense that you can only get 90-100% increased speed on a BC, it's a BC! I'ts not supposed to be whirling around at 600-700mps, it just doesn't make sense.
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2004.12.18 17:52:00 - [5] you answerin wrong question... im not and idiot, and i do know relation between mass and speed boost. Im askin which size im supposed to use now. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2004.12.18 17:52:00 - [6] you answerin wrong question... im not and idiot, and i do know relation between mass and speed boost. Im askin which size im supposed to use now. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:06:00 - [7] I think if you use 100mn you will accelerate really slow so it's probably not worth the grid so I would go with the 10mn. If you want to go faster just use 10mn mwd and hope you are not in deadspace __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:06:00 - [8] I think if you use 100mn you will accelerate really slow so it's probably not worth the grid so I would go with the 10mn. If you want to go faster just use 10mn mwd and hope you are not in deadspace __________ Capacitor research
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Dust Puppy I think if you use 100mn you will accelerate really slow so it's probably not worth the grid so I would go with the 10mn. If you want to go faster just use 10mn mwd and hope you are not in deadspace yeah, thx, thats what i kinda though.... just wanted to see if ppl got any other ideas on that topic... I use 10MN t2 AB in my Ferox, but chasing Bloodraiders' cruisers (to get into NOS range) is still a pain ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Dust Puppy I think if you use 100mn you will accelerate really slow so it's probably not worth the grid so I would go with the 10mn. If you want to go faster just use 10mn mwd and hope you are not in deadspace yeah, thx, thats what i kinda though.... just wanted to see if ppl got any other ideas on that topic... I use 10MN t2 AB in my Ferox, but chasing Bloodraiders' cruisers (to get into NOS range) is still a pain ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
Aksama	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:16:00 - [11] I apologize if I answered the wrong questin, but yeah, as Dust Puppy said there's really no easy way around it, it'll just be frustrating until you get used to it.
Aksama	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:16:00 - [12] I apologize if I answered the wrong questin, but yeah, as Dust Puppy said there's really no easy way around it, it'll just be frustrating until you get used to it.
crazyiven	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:37:00 - [13] Edited by: crazyiven on 18/12/2004 18:37:18 The 100mn ab worked great till they patched the game. Now it uses too much grid. I was able to keep to high slots open and have the low slots set up to keep grid up. But useing a 100 ab is over now, it was able to just keep me out of reach with rats in deadspace. So thanks for screwing up the AB, and making me a slow ass target again.
crazyiven	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:37:00 - [14] Edited by: crazyiven on 18/12/2004 18:37:18 The 100mn ab worked great till they patched the game. Now it uses too much grid. I was able to keep to high slots open and have the low slots set up to keep grid up. But useing a 100 ab is over now, it was able to just keep me out of reach with rats in deadspace. So thanks for screwing up the AB, and making me a slow ass target again.
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:48:00 - [15] I use a 10mn (YS 8) and an overdrive in the low slots. It goes fast enough, just about.
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.18 18:48:00 - [16] I use a 10mn (YS 8) and an overdrive in the low slots. It goes fast enough, just about.
Hawk Firestorm	Posted - 2004.12.18 20:10:00 - [17] Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 18/12/2004 20:10:56 Unfortunatley they didn't think to bring in wep/modules appropriate for the new ship classes, but instead bodged it with bonus's. But a ferox you should be using a 10 as they use cruiser class modules, even though really it's a bit too big to be a cruiser really, but more like a pocket battleship.
Hawk Firestorm	Posted - 2004.12.18 20:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 18/12/2004 20:10:56 Unfortunatley they didn't think to bring in wep/modules appropriate for the new ship classes, but instead bodged it with bonus's. But a ferox you should be using a 10 as they use cruiser class modules, even though really it's a bit too big to be a cruiser really, but more like a pocket battleship.
Robstr	Posted - 2004.12.18 23:15:00 - [19] i think a 50mn afterburner for BC's and a 5mn for Destroyers would be a nice addition. As it is with either you can get good speed form a larger one but get gimped on grid and manuverability or go lower and not get a very good speed boost.
Robstr	Posted - 2004.12.18 23:15:00 - [20] i think a 50mn afterburner for BC's and a 5mn for Destroyers would be a nice addition. As it is with either you can get good speed form a larger one but get gimped on grid and manuverability or go lower and not get a very good speed boost.
Jennifer Danz	Posted - 2004.12.19 02:33:00 - [21] As long as the BC is still faster than the BS, it's all good.
Jennifer Danz	Posted - 2004.12.19 02:33:00 - [22] As long as the BC is still faster than the BS, it's all good.
Kunming	Posted - 2004.12.19 02:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Jennifer Danz As long as the BC is still faster than the BS, it's all good. Sadly not, I was like "WTF, LOL" when an apoc dusted me at a gate Intercepting since BETA
Kunming	Posted - 2004.12.19 02:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Jennifer Danz As long as the BC is still faster than the BS, it's all good. Sadly not, I was like "WTF, LOL" when an apoc dusted me at a gate Intercepting since BETA
Jennifer Danz	Posted - 2004.12.19 03:09:00 - [25] Hehe, I din say they should survive against them, it only makes sense a BS > BC, but the BC should still be the more mobile firepower.
Jennifer Danz	Posted - 2004.12.19 03:09:00 - [26] Hehe, I din say they should survive against them, it only makes sense a BS > BC, but the BC should still be the more mobile firepower.
Newport Capri	Posted - 2004.12.19 09:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Jennifer Danz Hehe, I din say they should survive against them, it only makes sense a BS > BC, but the BC should still be the more mobile firepower. he ment speed, not firepower...
Newport Capri	Posted - 2004.12.19 09:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Jennifer Danz Hehe, I din say they should survive against them, it only makes sense a BS > BC, but the BC should still be the more mobile firepower. he ment speed, not firepower...
Hobbsalong	Posted - 2004.12.19 09:44:00 - [29] Edited by: Hobbsalong on 19/12/2004 09:44:24 The problem with adding 5mn or 50mn MWD/AB is what's to stop frigs from fitting 5mn AB? Or for a cruiser to fit a 50mn one..
Hobbsalong	Posted - 2004.12.19 09:44:00 - [30] Edited by: Hobbsalong on 19/12/2004 09:44:24 The problem with adding 5mn or 50mn MWD/AB is what's to stop frigs from fitting 5mn AB? Or for a cruiser to fit a 50mn one..
Erloas	Posted - 2004.12.19 10:42:00 - [31] all ABs add the amount their thrust changed to the mass of the ship use the thrasher as an example because thats what I fly ie old 1mn abs now are 1.5mn thrust but adds 500k mass to your ship 10mn ABs are 15mn thrust but add 5000k mass and 100ab add 50,000k mass so when you equip a 1mn on a 1m frigate the new mass is 1.5m and so is the thrust, so you get the full new top speed, but with less agility based on the new mass when I put a 10mn on my 1.5mil mass destroyer when it runs it makes the mass 6.5mil, so even with a 15mn thrust I don't get nearly as much out of the AB because the mass increased so much. Also the agility of the destroyer was based on 1.5mil and its now 6.5mil so it really kills the manuverability of the thing and also the acceleration. the problem with the 1mn on the destroyer is then it puts my mass to 2mil with the thrust of 1.5mn still, which means I'm only getting 75% of the listed bonus of the AB, so my named 120% AB only gives me about 90% speed. so it would be very nice if they made some inbetween sized ABs for destroyers and BCs because they fall into the same problem, just at the next level up. really the only way to avoid this is to make modules and ships somewhat more restrictive in use and remove the mass penalty, but being that they didn't do this in the first place it doesn't seem likely. However.... one thing they could do to help out destroyers and BCs (and maybe some other 'normal' ships with unusualy high masses) is to give the ships themselves either thrust or mass bonuses to balance it out. this would of course only apply to the correct size ABs, and not take away the penalties of oversized ABs. so with a few levels in destroyers or BCs, the mass of your ship stays at 1.5mil, and the thrust stays at 1.5mil, and you get full use, or the mass still increases to 2mil (to keep with the agility penalty all other ships get) but also the AB thrust increases to 2mn and you are back to full use again.
Erloas	Posted - 2004.12.19 10:42:00 - [32] all ABs add the amount their thrust changed to the mass of the ship use the thrasher as an example because thats what I fly ie old 1mn abs now are 1.5mn thrust but adds 500k mass to your ship 10mn ABs are 15mn thrust but add 5000k mass and 100ab add 50,000k mass so when you equip a 1mn on a 1m frigate the new mass is 1.5m and so is the thrust, so you get the full new top speed, but with less agility based on the new mass when I put a 10mn on my 1.5mil mass destroyer when it runs it makes the mass 6.5mil, so even with a 15mn thrust I don't get nearly as much out of the AB because the mass increased so much. Also the agility of the destroyer was based on 1.5mil and its now 6.5mil so it really kills the manuverability of the thing and also the acceleration. the problem with the 1mn on the destroyer is then it puts my mass to 2mil with the thrust of 1.5mn still, which means I'm only getting 75% of the listed bonus of the AB, so my named 120% AB only gives me about 90% speed. so it would be very nice if they made some inbetween sized ABs for destroyers and BCs because they fall into the same problem, just at the next level up. really the only way to avoid this is to make modules and ships somewhat more restrictive in use and remove the mass penalty, but being that they didn't do this in the first place it doesn't seem likely. However.... one thing they could do to help out destroyers and BCs (and maybe some other 'normal' ships with unusualy high masses) is to give the ships themselves either thrust or mass bonuses to balance it out. this would of course only apply to the correct size ABs, and not take away the penalties of oversized ABs. so with a few levels in destroyers or BCs, the mass of your ship stays at 1.5mil, and the thrust stays at 1.5mil, and you get full use, or the mass still increases to 2mil (to keep with the agility penalty all other ships get) but also the AB thrust increases to 2mn and you are back to full use again.
Haematite	Posted - 2004.12.19 13:26:00 - [33] Can they not just make BC size modules? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Haematite	Posted - 2004.12.19 13:26:00 - [34] Can they not just make BC size modules? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Erloas	Posted - 2004.12.19 13:52:00 - [35] the problem is that if they make a BC (or destroyer) sized module, there is currently no way to stop it from being equiped on the smaller variant ie normaller cruisers (or frigates) which then still leads to a oversized AB, just to a lesser extent. the problem is there is no way to limit an item to be equipable on just a certain type of ship. the mechanics in the module and ship design just doesn't allow for that restriction, that is why they are forced to add insane CPU usage and conrisponding special bonuses to ships to use some modules. like mining barges and strip miners and covert ops and cloaking modules. the only restriction placed on modules is skills... so the other way to do it might be to have a ship add a skill to your char also... so when you board your frigate you gain the skill 'ability to use 1mn ABs' and unless you have that 'skill' you can't use it. the same would then happen for cruisers and BSs with 10mn and 100mn ABs respectively. So if you switched to your cruiser from your frig you would loose the 1mn skill but gain the 10mn skill, they could then add destroyer and BC sized ABs and this same ship skill and it would all work out. but its a lot of work either way or see my suggestion above, more bonuses for various ship types to accomidate the use of the 'correct' sized modules.
Erloas	Posted - 2004.12.19 13:52:00 - [36] the problem is that if they make a BC (or destroyer) sized module, there is currently no way to stop it from being equiped on the smaller variant ie normaller cruisers (or frigates) which then still leads to a oversized AB, just to a lesser extent. the problem is there is no way to limit an item to be equipable on just a certain type of ship. the mechanics in the module and ship design just doesn't allow for that restriction, that is why they are forced to add insane CPU usage and conrisponding special bonuses to ships to use some modules. like mining barges and strip miners and covert ops and cloaking modules. the only restriction placed on modules is skills... so the other way to do it might be to have a ship add a skill to your char also... so when you board your frigate you gain the skill 'ability to use 1mn ABs' and unless you have that 'skill' you can't use it. the same would then happen for cruisers and BSs with 10mn and 100mn ABs respectively. So if you switched to your cruiser from your frig you would loose the 1mn skill but gain the 10mn skill, they could then add destroyer and BC sized ABs and this same ship skill and it would all work out. but its a lot of work either way or see my suggestion above, more bonuses for various ship types to accomidate the use of the 'correct' sized modules.

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