Originally by: Dakisha

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I get the distinct impression that someone in CCP just got the message that the playerbase are not happy..

And so you roll out the PR as ever. And I doubt you even see it as PR. The list of dev count for teams, but glossing over that almost half the developers have been moved to Dust.

You seem to forget we don't care about dust. Not many of us will even get the chance to play it (non-console owners). We're supposed to accept its okay your not working on low-sec/lag (properly)/insert-problem-here because your working on some other console game with a loose tie in to eve.

And your working hard on Incarna - good for you.. We're all so pleased to see you working on something -nobody gives a **** about-.. Your obsession with shinys to bring in new players has gone on long enough and is driving away your real EXISTING players.


Why can you not understand? People are upset because there are problems that have been around for ages, with promises of eventual fixes - and then they find out the majority of the dev time is being put into two things -nobody cares about- (yet again). Tell me a playerbase who is going to accept that?

Until you stop trying to gloss over that you're basically ignoring eve until WIS/dust are out - and either admit it and watch the players leave in disgust, or change it - people are going to continue to be write angry rants (like this)

On the upside, at least someone did actually notice people are upset.. Thats monumentous in its own right (sort of).

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Originally by: CCP Lemur

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Hello there. I was pondering a long time whether to post here or not.
/snip

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Originally by: Haven Wind

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Posting to confirm that some of us have been waiting a long time on Incarna, love the idea of 70 devs working on it, and hope CCP does not bow to pressure from people in this thread.

angry posters: Bottom line is that if fixing eve means net subscriber growth of 20,000 over a year (forecast) and Incarna means net subscribers growth of 100k (forecast) then no amount of angry crying (and making wild assumptions about what it all means) will change the course of things.

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Originally by: Mynxee

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Edited by: Mynxee on 22/07/2010 15:50:27

Originally by: CCP Lemur

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Hello there. /snip

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Sorry for selective quoting--those are just the ones that struck me as key.

Thanks for that honest, straightforward post, Lemur. It gets right the point I've been trying to make: communication is good. Honest, on-target, communication is better. EVE players are generally too paranoid and too smart to fall for spin and subterfuge. I'd love to see the next 10 pages of this thread filled with devs taking that same honest, heartfelt approach in responding to the direct questions posed here that relate to their areas of expertise. Even if to say details are not known, can't be known, or can't be shared due to <insert reason here>.

As to focusing resources, we all understand that no solution will make everyone happy. However, I think there is a common theme in the "unhappy camp" that is easily discernible and probably fairly easily addressable with even a mild shift of resources in the short term. *shrugs* It's just a matter of whether or not what CCP is reading in and taking away from this thread is of sufficient concern to inspire changes in the focus of that short term plan.

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Originally by: Cergorach

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Originally by: Marcus Vorenius

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Edited by: Marcus Vorenius on 22/07/2010 21:37:44
I wonder whats next:

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You can't spell "what's" - cool

;-)

I would like to point out that no one is perfect, even not to folks that wrote the text on the page the use to attract a new Producer of Incarna.

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Quote:

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The product backlog is a high-level document for the entire project. It contains backlog items: broad descriptions of all required features, wish-list items, etc. prioritized by business value. It is the ôWhatö that will be built. It is open and editable by anyone and contains rough estimates of both business value and development effort. Those estimates help the Product Owner to gauge the timeline and, to a limited extent, prioritize. For example, if the ôadd spellcheckö and ôadd table supportö features have the same business value, the one with the smallest development effort will probably have higher priority, because the ROI (Return On Investment) is higher.

The product backlog is the property of the Product Owner. Business value is set by the Product Owner. Development effort is set by the Team."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_(development)

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Quote:

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The product backlog is the property of the Product Owner. Business value is set by the Product Owner. Development effort is set by the Team."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_(development)

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Originally by: Ban Doga

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Originally by: Marcus Vorenius

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Quote:

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The product backlog is the property of the Product Owner. Business value is set by the Product Owner. Development effort is set by the Team."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_(development)

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I hope the wiki is wrong. The Product Owner is the "client" (business value is in his P&L) - the guy responsible for the deliveries (e.g. programme director, project manager) should own the backlog.

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The Product Owner is not the "client", (s)he is the one "ordering a product" from the team(s).
The Product Owner could even be someone who will never use the product at all (although this would probably make less sense)

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Originally by: Playing Eve

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Originally by: Marcus Vorenius

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it would be interesting to have a look at the factors that influence the Return on Investment (ROI) for Incarna. The ROI would be: Business value (or benefits) minus development effort. The tangible benefits of Incarna would probably be "net increase in subscribers" (new subcribers minus cancelled subs) and <insert potential benefits from Product Owner here>
In addition to the tangible benefits, CCP has probably added a long list of intangible benefits like

TL;DR: Customer reactions to CCP Zulu's Dev Blog means that the ROI of Incarna/Dust is probably being looked at again and the more doubt there is about the benefits, the more the business case is crumbling.

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Remember also that CCP own WhiteWolf and presumably wants to release a person/avatar based game for that audience at some time. So in addition to the factors you have listed, Incarna call also be seen as ground work for an entirely other product line. If the outlook for that product is still seen as good, quite a bit of loss on the EVE side can be written off as costs/learning for the new product.

That said, I still think Incarna can bring in LARGE numbers of new players. I have several friends who are completely turned off to Eve once they find out that they only have a ship to relate to -- people who want to occasionally sit around a virtual table and look another face in the eyes.

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Originally by: Kireiina

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nothing

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Malcanis

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12 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the TransparentÖ response with great interest.

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Originally by: Tarasina

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http://agilemanifesto.org/

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Quote:

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"It's easy to get hung up on the process rather than focusing on the quality of the game." - Anonymous

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Quote:

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Scrum incorporates features in the process, let's say 1 feaure is 1 sprint for example. Now that feature IS the process. But given the nature of sprints, maybe it wasn't all fleshed out or made with quality in mind (The quality the player perceives, not codequality

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