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Maluminse Caldari Out Siders	Posted - 2010.07.20 12:40:00 - [61] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba 1. Investors usually prefer a company doing what they can do best: developing the core game itself, instead of experiments on uncharted waters. I'm sure you meant for this to only apply to game companies. Because if the companies I invested in IRL didn't do any R&D and expand product lines, just so I could look forward to stale dividends the rest of my life, I would never invest in them. CCP has a good business model. People will still pay to fly internet spaceships, and people will buy the console game.
Muscaat ASCENTIS CORPORATION Free Worlds Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.20 12:52:00 - [62] Originally by: Tippia Quote: It's like to put a brand new roof on a ruined house. 1st you fix the house structure THEN you put a new roof. No. It's like building a second house, and while you have the roofers there and can get a great bulk price on tiles, you commission them to spruce up the first house as well. You could wait until the foundation of the first house got fixed, but then you'd have to pay a whole lot more and it wouldn't happen until five years in the future ù as it is, you have the resources booked up for a different building project, so why not make use of them? Best analogy of the situation I've read. Some, of course, would argue that you shouldn't have started building a second house while the first is still falling down in places... ---------- EVE Markets - global price trends at your fingertips
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.20 13:18:00 - [63] Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 20/07/2010 13:20:35 Originally by: Maluminse Originally by: Yakia TovilToba 1. Investors usually prefer a company doing what they can do best: developing the core game itself, instead of experiments on uncharted waters. I'm sure you meant for this to only apply to game companies. Because if the companies I invested in IRL didn't do any R&D and expand product lines, just so I could look forward to stale dividends the rest of my life, I would never invest in them. CCP has a good business model. People will still pay to fly internet spaceships, and people will buy the console game. Let me tell you a story from RL: We had a company in our country that was excellent at postal services. They were one of the market leaders on that field, delivered most mail within 1 day, parcels within 2 days nationwide. Then, for some obscure reasons, they entered the banking business, started to offer giro accounts, loans and all that other banking services. They probably thought they gain something by linking that two businesses, doing something new that will be beneficial for all fields. For them banking was the uncharted waters, they wanted to play on a field that already had enough players with much more experience. And guess what, they failed horribly, making heavy losses on the banking sector, which had repercussions on their postal sector as well. Today they don't offer banking anymore and they aren't excellent at postal services. Others overtook them on the postal field, with postal service related innovations and a even better service. If they'd only stay with what they could do best and pushed that to new levels ...
Maluminse Caldari Out Siders	Posted - 2010.07.20 14:23:00 - [64] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 20/07/2010 13:20:35 Originally by: Maluminse Originally by: Yakia TovilToba 1. Investors usually prefer a company doing what they can do best: developing the core game itself, instead of experiments on uncharted waters. I'm sure you meant for this to only apply to game companies. Because if the companies I invested in IRL didn't do any R&D and expand product lines, just so I could look forward to stale dividends the rest of my life, I would never invest in them. CCP has a good business model. People will still pay to fly internet spaceships, and people will buy the console game. Let me tell you a story from RL: We had a company in our country that was excellent at postal services. They were one of the market leaders on that field, delivered most mail within 1 day, parcels within 2 days nationwide. Then, for some obscure reasons, they entered the banking business, started to offer giro accounts, loans and all that other banking services. They probably thought they gain something by linking that two businesses, doing something new that will be beneficial for all fields. For them banking was the uncharted waters, they wanted to play on a field that already had enough players with much more experience. And guess what, they failed horribly, making heavy losses on the banking sector, which had repercussions on their postal sector as well. Today they don't offer banking anymore and they aren't excellent at postal services. Others overtook them on the postal field, with postal service related innovations and a even better service. If they'd only stay with what they could do best and pushed that to new levels ... So you used the example of a postal service getting into banking to compare CCP/EVE (a gaming company/product) working on another.. game? I've divested in drug companies because they are going to hit a patent wall because they didn't put enough towards R&D. The same with tech companies, and a mining exploration company that didn't want to explore anymore. There's plenty of meat out there for the CCP/EVE grinder. If I was a CCP investor, I would be demanding that they expand their product line. The amount of people that will QQ because of lag in fleet battles or because the PI interface is too click intensive is insignificant. The EVE revenue stream has been tapped; it's time to open another one. I want a return on my investment. Stale product lines rarely invite new investors/revenue. Sure, support your core products, but by no means does that require you to forgo all future development and corporate expansion. If CCP stuck with EVE as their sole source of revenue, and I was an investor, I wouldn't be for very much longer.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.20 14:35:00 - [65] Originally by: Maluminse So you used the example of a postal service getting into banking to compare CCP/EVE (a gaming company/product) working on another.. game? There are space MMOs, there are full-body-avatar FPS, there are PC and console GAMES. I think a spaceship MMO is MUCH different than a console FPS ... and it's not like there are not enough console FPSs on market. Quote: I've divested in drug companies because they are going to hit a patent wall because they didn't put enough towards R&D. The same with tech companies, and a mining exploration company that didn't want to explore anymore. I absolutely agree that R&D is absolutely vital. I even agree more on this than you, as I assume that without further in-space-Eve development Eve might die. The core game needs constant R&D. But I prefer this R&D to be done within Eve, not within other game sectors. Or what would you say if that drug company, which you mentioned started to do R&D in tech or mining exploration ?
Maluminse Caldari Out Siders	Posted - 2010.07.20 14:45:00 - [66] Edited by: Maluminse on 20/07/2010 14:45:44 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Maluminse So you used the example of a postal service getting into banking to compare CCP/EVE (a gaming company/product) working on another.. game? There are space MMOs, there are full-body-avatar FPS, there are PC and console GAMES. I think a spaceship MMO is MUCH different than a console FPS ... and it's not like there are not enough console FPSs on market. Quote: I've divested in drug companies because they are going to hit a patent wall because they didn't put enough towards R&D. The same with tech companies, and a mining exploration company that didn't want to explore anymore. I absolutely agree that R&D is absolutely vital. I even agree more on this than you, as I assume that without further in-space-Eve development Eve might die. The core game needs constant R&D. But I prefer this R&D to be done within Eve, not within other game sectors. Or what would you say if that drug company, which you mentioned started to do R&D in tech or mining exploration ? You know, I'm taking a liking to you because you haven't QQ'd or resorted to "go play wow" or other such things, and you raise good points. It seems what we disagree on is that developing other games is entirely within a game developer's corporate purpose. A gaming company that enters into mining, is not within the same purpose or area of expertise. If CCP successfully manages to launch DUST and continue to maintain EVE, I see much profit in its future and a better chance of it growing as a respected developer. The bottom line is one product/revenue stream isn't enough.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.07.21 02:16:00 - [67] Originally by: Maluminse If CCP successfully manages to launch DUST and continue to maintain EVE, I see much profit in its future and a better chance of it growing as a respected developer. IF
Zso Sahal Minmatar Multiverse Academy	Posted - 2010.07.21 03:08:00 - [68] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Janus Nightmare with the generally high level of intelligence required to play this game ::spitcoffee:: OMG. i want your sig
Dred Control	Posted - 2010.07.21 23:48:00 - [69] Incarna seems like it could possibly be cool, if it doesn't increase lag. (Eh, but what doesn't?) Dust is just a terrible idea. There's a reason no one has ever tried it before. I'm going to trust the security of a multi-million ISK planetary installation to a bunch of Mountain Dew drinking 14 year-old PS3 gamers with the attention spans of gold fish? Right. Great idea there. It is going to be dead in the water....er...vacuum of space. They did state that lag and fleet fight issues are a concern which are being worked on by smart people. From what I've heard, simple lag isn't the only issue. It is a combination of lag, non-linearity (where if event A occurs before event B the server could actually process B before A), and being able to shoot ships where the client running the ship hasn't loaded grid but is still target-able. There also seem to be cases where the server drops requests completely. So it is a big can of worms where lag is only one of the worms. Sounds like a lot of recoding would need to be done to fix-up all the various problems.
Kephael Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.22 00:08:00 - [70] I want a Sci-Fi simulator, not just internet spaceships.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.07.22 00:30:00 - [71] If CCP wants to draw more people to Eve then a quick solution would be: 1) expand the portraits down to mid abdomen 2) allow manipulation of the chest area during player creation 3) include wet t-shirt in the wardrobe CCP would have people clamoring to pay to change their portraits and attract new players.
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.07.23 06:09:00 - [72] Edited by: Aelius on 23/07/2010 06:10:55 Edited by: Aelius on 23/07/2010 06:09:26 Some simple questions with multiple answers. Pick yours. #1 - CCP is launching Incarna because: a) They want to turn EVE into WOW in space. b) They want to lower their average player base age. c) They want to mass test the new White Wolf vampire game. d) A good MMORPG always has full body chars. e) All the above. #2 - CCP is launching Dust 514 because: a) The market really needs another FPS. b) They want to win the peace Nobel prize, by bringing together "PC gamers" and "Console gamers". c) They want to finally give "PC gamers" a way to nuke "Console gamers" from orbit option, because "it's the only way to be sure". d) They want to provide carebears a way to pvp without risk of losing their ship. #3 - Is it cool to put EVE "on ice" for 18 months because of Incarna and Dust 514? a) Yes, what ever it takes. I'm looking forward to have that exotic dancer lap dance in my full body char. b) Yes i want to nuke "Console players" from orbit (disclaimer: Nuke rockets won't work). C) No, fix my rockets before that lap dance, everyone knows that a man without rockets, isn't a real man. #4 - Comment on the following sentence by Nathan Richardsson AKA Oveur: "The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features" a) He was clearly drunk. b) We hope he was drunk. c) Too much beer makes you make sentences that "will echo for eternity". _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) _________________________
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.07.23 07:07:00 - [73] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Today they don't offer banking anymore and they aren't excellent at postal services. Others overtook them on the postal field, with postal service related innovations and a even better service. If they'd only stay with what they could do best and pushed that to new levels ... Linking a console MMOFPS hybrid with a full fledged PC MMO, and letting the console players act as planetary invasion forces for the elite space commanders, and letting a single shard of 400k people walk around in thousands of individual stations playing poker and drinking beer while the fleet forms up IS pushing it to new levels! And no, CCP won't forget about the space part of eve, that will always be the core. Sure, they're focusing really heavily on Incarna now, but really, do we really want it pushed back another release (6 more months). No, we've been *****ing about how Incarna will never happen for years, I'm glad they're finally getting it done.
DjLowballer Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2010.07.23 07:48:00 - [74] I want Incarna. I joined the game because of internet spaceships, but the reality is that one should not undock their internet spaceship unless they have something planned. Otherwise the internet spaceship could become internet space dust. I look forward to a time when I can get out of my internet spaceship and go interact with others in the internet spaceship universe in a more human way.
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.23 10:22:00 - [75] Edited by: Ti''anla on 23/07/2010 10:25:55 Originally by: Aelius #3 - Is it cool to put EVE "on ice" for 18 months because of Incarna and Dust 514? Why are you berks convinced EVE's going to be any more 'on ice' for the next 18 months than it has been these past few years? New content has always held priority with problem fixing, optimisation and fleshing-out almost always coming in second. In other words, nothing going to change for 18 months and then the dev's have said there'll be a much heavier focus on the non-expansion stuff that previously took a back seat. The most laughable part is the near-religious shrieking that Incarna isn't part of EVE. Honestly, this place has some kind of chronic glass-must-always-be-half-empty disorder. We get people reading a promise to focus primarily on optimisation after 3 dev' cycles, rather than the previous secondary focus, as "OMFG THEY'RE ABANDONING MY INTERNET SPACESHIPS COMPLETELY WHILE THEY MAKE THEIR STUPID CHATROOM", I've seen idiots in other threads accuse the developers of incompetence and inability to provide everything they said they would while simultaneously declaring they'd take time to stealth-implement features they said they weren't ever going to.. Good god, I've never seen such rampant, paranoid, brainless cynicism as inhabits this dump..
Grunanca Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.07.23 10:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba 1. Investors usually prefer a company doing what they can do best: developing the core game itself, instead of experiments on uncharted waters. I have an advise to you: NEVER EVER invest in shares! You will be pretty much sure to lose your money with that mindset. Buying shares in safe companies or companies that just hit their peak, is the sure way to either gain nothing or lose it all. Same counts for this game. You got to take risk to grow.
Foundation Vox	Posted - 2010.07.23 12:41:00 - [77] Could care less about DUST but Incarna I can't wait for. Casual EVE player though and yes I want to get out of my flipping pod once in a while. For myself, Incarna will change my EVE experience in a very big way. Like the developers keep repeating, they want to make the best sci-fi mmo possible. In order to do this we simply must be allowed to leave the damn pod. Oh yeah, fix: fleet lag, faction warfare, planetary interaction (2 much clicky), rockets and hell, go ahead and nerf those pesky lvl4 mission runners again while yer at it too. Did I get all the hot topics in there? Seriously, I am gonna start manufacturing tin foil hats. There appears to be a demand.
GateScout	Posted - 2010.07.23 13:20:00 - [78] Edited by: GateScout on 23/07/2010 13:20:35 Originally by: Aelius I recon that Incarna is the next logical step, but only after fixing some key broken key features in EVE (ie:FW). I disagree. CCP should only be working on Incarna. Nothing else. Eve works fine. You're not leaving, right? Subscribers seem to be going up? Looks fine to me. Roll on Incarna. Real edit: And Dust.
KING TERROR	Posted - 2010.07.23 13:43:00 - [79] Dude, read devblogs and watch eve videos. All you questions and counteractions on rants are already answered before you ever questioned them. Do your homework.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.07.23 13:47:00 - [80] Oh good another thread about Dust and/or Incarna... Yawn
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.07.23 20:33:00 - [81] I always get a smile out of the "EVE is falling apart" meme that surfaces in these arguments. 1: The only serious issue with EVE not functioning right now is lag, which has a considerable amount of effort being put into fixing. Even if all other projects were nixed as of today, it would change nothing as far as fixing lag is concerned. 2: The only serious core issue that seems to universally come up as needing an upgrade is the UI, which has just had it's developement manpower tripled. 3: FW and Cosmos could use a rework and some polish. Neither issue is remotely game breaking. 4: Balancing issues with certain ships and weapon system. About as far from game breaking as you can get. So... tell me again... just where is EVE "falling apart" from lack of attention? I agree though, it sure does lend artifical weight to your anti DUST/INCARNA posts to throw that bit in. It really shakes up the sheep that can't think for themselves. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.07.23 20:49:00 - [82] Originally by: BrundleMeth Oh good another thread about Dust and/or Incarna... Yawn THIS. Syn Callibri Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
NiGHTS	Posted - 2010.07.23 22:02:00 - [83] Counter posting the original post. What got me into EVE is the science fiction universe. In this universe I can fly spaceships and soon I will be able to walk around in it, and fire science fiction hand weapons in it. sigs are dead and CCP killed them
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.23 22:09:00 - [84] Edited by: Ti''anla on 23/07/2010 22:09:48 Originally by: NiGHTS Counter posting the original post. What got me into EVE is the science fiction universe. In this universe I can fly spaceships and soon I will be able to walk around in it, and fire science fiction hand weapons in it. I like you. And your name. Though I'm afraid I'm hereby changing it to Claris.
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.07.27 21:23:00 - [85] Originally by: Aelius #1 - CCP is launching Incarna because: a) They want to turn EVE into WOW in space. b) They want to lower their average player base age. c) They want to mass test the new White Wolf vampire game. d) A good MMORPG always has full body chars. e) All the above. F) It will add something extra to what already exists, thereby enriching the overall game. Quote: #2 - CCP is launching Dust 514 because: a) The market really needs another FPS. b) They want to win the peace Nobel prize, by bringing together "PC gamers" and "Console gamers". c) They want to finally give "PC gamers" a way to nuke "Console gamers" from orbit option, because "it's the only way to be sure". d) They want to provide carebears a way to pvp without risk of losing their ship. E)They think it'll be cool and make them money. Quote: #3 - Is it cool to put EVE "on ice" for 18 months because of Incarna and Dust 514? a) Yes, what ever it takes. I'm looking forward to have that exotic dancer lap dance in my full body char. b) Yes i want to nuke "Console players" from orbit (disclaimer: Nuke rockets won't work). C) No, fix my rockets before that lap dance, everyone knows that a man without rockets, isn't a real man. D) they're not putting jack sh on ice, moron. Quote: #4 - Comment on the following sentence by Nathan Richardsson AKA Oveur: "The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features"** a) He was clearly drunk. b) We hope he was drunk. c) Too much beer makes you make sentences that "will echo for eternity". D) He's entirely right. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.27 21:33:00 - [86] Edited by: Ti''anla on 27/07/2010 21:34:57 Originally by: Stitcher The Above Well I'm glad to someone else isn't a complete idiot, and noticed the questionnaire was biased rubbish. Not to mention noticed that Eve being 'on ice' is complete crap. Agreed on all the correct answers (F, E, D, and D), because the question-writer was too stupid to include them himself.

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