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CSM should go blow themselves.

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yani dumyat Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.20 10:22:00 - [1] That's right, blow your own trumpet, tell us what you've done. After reading the threadnought about CCP Zulu's blog I looked up the wiki which says you've managed to get 6 issues resolved in 5 years. Is this accurate? _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Viral Effect Caldari BRAINDEAD Corp	Posted - 2010.07.20 10:35:00 - [2] Absolutely brilliant thread! I approve! Thread of the week!
Black Dranzer	Posted - 2010.07.20 14:45:00 - [3] Saying "six issues" is uninformative. Which six issues? How soon after they were proposed were they fixed? How many issues have been put forward that have not yet been dealt with, and how long has it been since those issues were put forward? Six issues over five years would be a great track record if they only made six suggestions and each one was fixed within minutes of proposing them. -------------------------------------------------- Learning skills are an ultimatum, not a choice.
ThisIsNotMyAlt	Posted - 2010.07.20 20:46:00 - [4] each other you mean ?
OwlManAtt Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.07.20 21:36:00 - [5] The CSM can't achieve anything if CCP refuses to ever work on things they bring up. Originally by: Black Dranzer Saying "six issues" is uninformative. Which six issues? There's a link in the OP with details. --- Owl
DontMindMe JustPassnThru	Posted - 2010.07.20 22:00:00 - [6] If I could blow myself I'd never leave the house never mind get on a plane to Iceland
Amber Accelerando	Posted - 2010.07.20 23:48:00 - [7] Originally by: DontMindMe JustPassnThru If I could blow myself I'd never leave the house never mind get on a plane to Iceland that's so disgusting, I mean Men are so disgustingly obsessed with getting themselves off. Your hand will do & it's all you'll get!
Delilah Wild	Posted - 2010.07.21 04:11:00 - [8] Oh so true. Nicely said Amber. Fun aside.... Yani I mean no disrespect, but I think we all need to be more fair in our expectations of the CSM. We aren't talking about simple technical changes, as if anything in Eve was simply technical, or as if technical issues were themselves simple. Rather we are talking about policy issues with a technical dimension. Policy issues are much harder to change as they are based on values and culture, in this case the values and culture of CCP and its player base. Please, give the CSM your support and a reasonable period of time to try and effect such change. It may not work, I acknowledge that. Yet it may, and we will all be better off if it does. Delilah friendsofeve.wordpress.com
captain foivos	Posted - 2010.07.21 05:38:00 - [9] I think we should start improving EVE by ending sexism. All those in favor of podding Delilah and Amber, say aye. All those not in favor, go post moar QQ about Hulkageddon and lowsec.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.21 06:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Amber Accelerando Originally by: DontMindMe JustPassnThru If I could blow myself I'd never leave the house never mind get on a plane to Iceland that's so disgusting, I mean Men are so disgustingly obsessed with getting themselves off. Your hand will do & it's all you'll get! Wait till we tell what we'd do if only we were really limber. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.

Pax Mentor	Posted - 2010.07.21 08:27:00 - [11] Originally by: yani dumyat ..... resolved in 5 years. CSM has not exicted for 5 years. It is more like 2 years.
yani dumyat Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.21 10:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Pax Mentor Originally by: yani dumyat ..... resolved in 5 years. CSM has not exicted for 5 years. It is more like 2 years. This is a very good point, should have said terms . Possibly should have been iterations as CCP seem to like that word. Originally by: Delilah Wild Yani I mean no disrespect, but I think we all need to be more fair in our expectations of the CSM. Indeed I wasn't getting at the CSM, quite the opposite. The current pandemic of nerdrage is getting out of hand, for that reason I was looking for concise information that might be used as a form of medicine to help treat all these poor nerds in their hour of need. _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Delilah Wild	Posted - 2010.07.21 15:42:00 - [13] Ah. Thanks for clarifying this, and apologies for misunderstanding your intent.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.21 17:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Bagehi on 21/07/2010 17:06:58 I would like to point out that the page in question is a wiki page. As a wiki page, it only is updated when someone updates it. As it was last updated 12:58, 16 July 2009 by Erik Finnegan, I propose that this is more a case of a wiki page that hasn't been updated and less an issue of CSM's ability to get issues resolved. In fact, the page was only worked on by Erik, a CSM 3 delegate, so those are probably only issues resolved during CSM 3. Issues that he remembered to move on the wiki to resolved. I think the problem is that issues are often resolved outside the term of the CSM who passed the proposal, so there is less impetus to take finalize the work of someone else, simply to "blow their horn" as you elegantly put it. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.23 12:27:00 - [15] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 23/07/2010 12:27:42 Originally by: OwlManAtt The CSM can't achieve anything if CCP refuses to ever work on things they bring up. There's a link in the OP with details. Exactly. I blame CCP this time, not the CSM.
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.07.25 04:16:00 - [16] petitioned because your thread title discriminates against Mazz, I can not and will not stand for that.
Lykouleon Trust Doesn't Rust Mostly Cookie	Posted - 2010.07.25 14:45:00 - [17] Your opinion has been noted. However, the napkin I scribbled the note on was thrown out along with the rest of the garbage. Please biomass yourself. Quote: Aedun Sole > flying with lyk is like flying a bus filled with 5 year old children
Dierdra Vaal	Posted - 2010.07.26 09:58:00 - [18] Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 26/07/2010 10:03:06 Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 26/07/2010 10:01:31 Originally by: yani dumyat Is this accurate? nope unfortunately, the wiki is incomplete. We have asked CCP to give us a full overview of all CSM issues in their development pipeline/backlog/etc, once we have that it will be a more accurate view. When I did my presentation for CSM3 at Fanfest 2009, 18% of the CSM issues (CSM1-3) had already been finished. At the time, 184 issues had been submitted to CCP. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DznBzBrre6g#t=4m20s * * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
yani dumyat Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.26 11:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Dierdra Vaal We have asked CCP to give us a full overview of all CSM issues in their development pipeline/backlog/etc, once we have that it will be a more accurate view. Thank you and good luck getting that info from CCP, it would be nice to have information rather than all the recent Zulu inspired nerdrage saying the CSM are/aren't useful. _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.07.26 15:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Dierdra Vaal Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 26/07/2010 10:03:06 Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 26/07/2010 10:01:31 Originally by: yani dumyat Is this accurate? nope unfortunately, the wiki is incomplete. We have asked CCP to give us a full overview of all CSM issues in their development pipeline/backlog/etc, once we have that it will be a more accurate view. When I did my presentation for CSM3 at Fanfest 2009, 18% of the CSM issues (CSM1-3) had already been finished. At the time, 184 issues had been submitted to CCP. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DznBzBrre6g#t=4m20s 82% success rate because 33 issues were not denied is a rather generous statement ("we did not fail, so it was a success"?). Again and again we heard that there is no tagging for the backlog items, that no one knows which issues belong to the CSM and which not. Where are these numbers coming from? Is there a publically accessible list of those "Finished" features somewhere, even if it is outdated by now?

Marcus Vorenius Caldari Citadel Enterprise	Posted - 2010.07.26 17:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Dierdra Vaal Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 26/07/2010 10:03:06 Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 26/07/2010 10:01:31 Originally by: yani dumyat Is this accurate? nope unfortunately, the wiki is incomplete. We have asked CCP to give us a full overview of all CSM issues in their development pipeline/backlog/etc, once we have that it will be a more accurate view. When I did my presentation for CSM3 at Fanfest 2009, 18% of the CSM issues (CSM1-3) had already been finished. At the time, 184 issues had been submitted to CCP. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DznBzBrre6g#t=4m20s thanks for the update - personally I don't give a hoot about metrics, if the CSM can get a couple of our core issues prioritized in the backlog then i'm a happy bunny _________________________________________ Citadel Enterprise - Private Military Corporation
Dierdra Vaal	Posted - 2010.07.27 10:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Ban Doga Where are these numbers coming from? Is there a publically accessible list of those "Finished" features somewhere, even if it is outdated by now? I went through all CSM minutes (up to Fanfest 2009) and compared the issues that were accepted by CCP to the features/fixes/etc that were added to the game since the start of the CSM. It was a lot of work, but to improve that in the future we're working with CCP to get CSM issues tagged as such in the backlog, as well as improve CCP-CSM communication when the status of such an issue is changed. That will allow us to keep track of the state our issues are in. * * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.07.28 07:13:00 - [23] Edited by: Ban Doga on 28/07/2010 07:14:12 Originally by: Dierdra Vaal Originally by: Ban Doga Where are these numbers coming from? Is there a publically accessible list of those "Finished" features somewhere, even if it is outdated by now? I went through all CSM minutes (up to Fanfest 2009) and compared the issues that were accepted by CCP to the features/fixes/etc that were added to the game since the start of the CSM. It was a lot of work, but to improve that in the future we're working with CCP to get CSM issues tagged as such in the backlog, as well as improve CCP-CSM communication when the status of such an issue is changed. That will allow us to keep track of the state our issues are in. So this list only exists as a piece of paper somewhere on your desk? EDIT If it was so much work and the result so good I'd post it all over the place and/or put it into my sig.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.08.09 12:03:00 - [24] Just bumping to ask: You really don't want to share that list? It seems strange that there are "hard facts" about the success of the CSM and it is not made public despite people asking for it every now and then...
Cromo Effect	Posted - 2010.08.09 12:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Ban Doga Just bumping to ask: You really don't want to share that list? It seems strange that there are "hard facts" about the success of the CSM and it is not made public despite people asking for it every now and then... They are basically making **** up. They are getting all kinds of free perks and special privilages being in the CSM. So the will dance their whole term not really producing anything. It's politics. This CSM has accomplished nothing. Just like the one before it, and the one before it, so on and so on. You get the idea.
Trebor Daehdoow	Posted - 2010.08.09 13:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Bagehi I would like to point out that the page in question is a wiki page. As a wiki page, it only is updated when someone updates it. As it was last updated 12:58, 16 July 2009 by Erik Finnegan, I propose that this is more a case of a wiki page that hasn't been updated and less an issue of CSM's ability to get issues resolved. That's an index page - it doesn't need to be updated because it changes automatically as issues get recategorized. I actually did a pass at updating the issues in process list before I started the crowdsourced prioritization last week, and there's a few more items that need updating that I will try and get to later this week. Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician Spending Hours blogging the Minutes
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.09 17:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Originally by: Bagehi I would like to point out that the page in question is a wiki page. As a wiki page, it only is updated when someone updates it. As it was last updated 12:58, 16 July 2009 by Erik Finnegan, I propose that this is more a case of a wiki page that hasn't been updated and less an issue of CSM's ability to get issues resolved. That's an index page - it doesn't need to be updated because it changes automatically as issues get recategorized. I actually did a pass at updating the issues in process list before I started the crowdsourced prioritization last week, and there's a few more items that need updating that I will try and get to later this week. If this is an accurate, up to date list, then it conflicts with Dierdra Vaal's statement that 18% or 33 proposals raised by CSM 1&2 were completed by the end of CSM 3. I had noticed that in previous CSMs issues/proposals rarely had their own wiki pages, is this part of the issue? This signature is useless, but it is red.
Trebor Daehdoow	Posted - 2010.08.10 12:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Bagehi If this is an accurate, up to date list, then it conflicts with Dierdra Vaal's statement that 18% or 33 proposals raised by CSM 1&2 were completed by the end of CSM 3. I had noticed that in previous CSMs issues/proposals rarely had their own wiki pages, is this part of the issue? There are unfortunately many inaccuracies in the CSM wiki pages. In particular, items that were either rejected or actually implemented have not had their status updated. I have already spent many hours trying to clean out the Augean Stables, so to speak. The prioritization crowdsourcing that I did last week exposed some more errors in the list, and I will do some more updating soon. Part of the problem is that I don't have good records of CCP correspondence with CSMs 1-3. Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician Spending Hours blogging the Minutes
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.08.18 18:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Originally by: Bagehi If this is an accurate, up to date list, then it conflicts with Dierdra Vaal's statement that 18% or 33 proposals raised by CSM 1&2 were completed by the end of CSM 3. I had noticed that in previous CSMs issues/proposals rarely had their own wiki pages, is this part of the issue? There are unfortunately many inaccuracies in the CSM wiki pages. In particular, items that were either rejected or actually implemented have not had their status updated. I have already spent many hours trying to clean out the Augean Stables, so to speak. The prioritization crowdsourcing that I did last week exposed some more errors in the list, and I will do some more updating soon. Part of the problem is that I don't have good records of CCP correspondence with CSMs 1-3. Are you sure this proposal is really "resolved"? I don't remember seeing this feature in any of the recent patch notes...
Trebor Daehdoow	Posted - 2010.08.19 13:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Ban Doga Are you sure this proposal is really "resolved"? I don't remember seeing this feature in any of the recent patch notes... That is probably a mistake; I have a query in to CCP to find out what the real status is. Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician Spending Hours blogging the Minutes



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