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Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.07.20 18:55:00 -
[1]
Recently I have started station trading in three stations - T2 and named mods, as well as some ammo and manufacturing goods.
I started with 20m and have made 12m profit on this in the past couple weeks. My problem is that I don't have enough capital to field as many buy orders as I would like to, thus slowing me down.
So, I am requesting a 500m loan (1 month) to begin trading with. I actually have no idea how this type of loan normally works in EVE, so I would appreciate direction. As far as collateral goes, I don't really have anything to put up; and I haven't made any large trade deals so I won't be able to provide references.
What is the usual interest rate for something like this? I was thinking I would return something like 520m after 1 month.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.20 19:26:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Xre Vega
What is the usual interest rate for something like this? I was thinking I would return something like 520m after 1 month.
Zero interest rate on zero isk is about right. That will also represent the zero interest you will receive. (Nothing personal - Just saying.)
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.07.20 19:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: RAW23 on 20/07/2010 19:31:55
Edited by: RAW23 on 20/07/2010 19:30:34
Edited by: RAW23 on 20/07/2010 19:29:54
First thing - 4% a month for a first time loan with no collateral will almost certainly not happen (unless an angel of mercy descends with the aim of proving me wrong  ). On the interest rate you really need to be thinking in the 7-12% range if you want to follow the 'normal' path for a first time, uncollateralised offering.
Second - making a 60% profit in two weeks is not to be sniffed at in terms of rate of return. However, on small amounts of capital it is a bit less impressive. The reason this is a problem is because, in general, trading activities in eve don't always scale. I'm not trying to be mean here but someone who knows the markets could probably get a 60% return on 20mil in an hour or so. As you have said, you are new to this so it is not surprising that it will take a little while to get into the swing of things. But potential investors might well take this as evidence of a lack of experience that may suggest you are not ready to handle a 2500% increase in capital yet (on the other hand, the new markets you want to expand into might all make similar returns - if you think you can show that this is so, see point 3) below).
On top of this all the usual concerns about scams will apply.
As things stand I would suggest:
1) Wait a few more weeks until you have a better grasp of the market and are able to show higher returns on low capital levels. Then you will be able to make the case for needing additional capital more easily.
2) Once you have reached that stage, arrange an audit so you can have an external source confirm that you have been making the money you claim.
3) You might also want to walk the auditor through the markets you intend to expand in to.
4) Higher interest rate to hook people in to what will, in any case, be quite a risky investment.
Alternatively, either buy a GTC or run a bunch of missions to get you the cash faster and go from there.
Edit - And growing fire-******ant skin always helps when launching offerings here. Shar has been kind enough to provide in the post above an example of the kind of responses you will have to get used to.
Edit 2 - Damn filter! Let's try fire-proof then.
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Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.07.20 19:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Xre Vega on 20/07/2010 19:50:02
Thanks for the advice!
I will probably have to take the GTC route to prove that I can handle larger amounts of ISK. I suppose it would be better to make initial expansion mistakes with my own ISK rather than someone else's.
Once I have expanded more I will give this another shot.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.20 19:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: RAW23
Edit 3- Just so you know, Shar is being ironic in his post. He has recently made clear that he has nothing but contempt for those who post in a way that can be considered as anything less than useful and respectful and he would never fall below these high standards himself.
Wrong. We discussed this in eve-mail months ago. I have contempt for you, a feeling that I have for several people, but it is not a generalized policy. But I keep trying to tell you, repeatedly saying the same bullcrap doesn't make it true. So could you troll elsewhere and elsewhen. You, and I, are not important enough for this ongoing kind of bull****.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.07.20 20:06:00 -
[6]
..Shar, how about you respond to your proposed IPO thread. I would love to see what you have to say. Don't go and start trolling other peoples posts until you clear up your own garbage. Respond to me in your thread.
I'm sick of MD untouchables just forgetting about the valid points that the lesser MD cannon fodder post about them.
So in conclusion, respond you weak forum abuser. Respond you self proclaimed elite. Unless you have nothing of worth to post, which seems about right, judging your personality. Just another loud mouth trying to be cool on the internet.
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Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.07.20 20:29:00 -
[7]
My thread got Shar'd 
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.20 21:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xre Vega
My thread got Shar'd
My apologies. Seems that my presence has drawn out the goon squad, again, and has sullied an otherwise promising thread. It seems that my only option is to refrain from posting in Eve, ever, so that this doesn't happen again. Yeah, right. Syd, of the two of us one of us has a vastly bloated idea of our own importance. But I'll answer you this far: My respected status (as it were) comes not solely from what I've posted. In the battle of Perception vs Substance, I totally suck on other's perceptions of me. I make up for this in substance. You don't like me. That's fine. I'm a serious pro choice person. I love it when someone exercises his rights to do whatever... ... up to the point that they are denying someone else their rights. Hounding me in someone else's thread only infringe's on the OP. Xre: My response to you was intentionally brief as it was also a probe. I did not know if you were serious or not, a lot of troll threads look just like yours. If you had responded to me with a question then I would have known you were serious enough to give more of an answer. If you had been someone who could not give a rat's ass enough to ask, I'd be happy to not give a rat's ass enough to post more than I did. That did not come about and I apologize for the trouble I have brought to you thread.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.07.20 21:20:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Zero interest rate on zero isk is about right. That will also represent the zero interest you will receive.
(Nothing personal - Just saying.)
This isn't a useful comment; you don't really give me anything to work with. I am requesting too much? Was their a problem with my proposal? Am I ugly?
You could have provided this information, however you seem to want to offer it only if I ask. I suppose this is your way of validating your existence on these forums.
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Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.07.20 22:03:00 -
[10]
it actually was useful, but he could have cut it out in cardboard for you!
shame on shar!
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.20 22:23:00 -
[11]
I remember when I started playing I don't think my balance went over 100M ISK for about 9 months.
What happenned to the old fashioned way of doing things, actually working to get your ISK.
Spend time trading, learning markets and more importantly have fun.
Why does everyone just want to hit an I win button?
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2010.07.20 22:33:00 -
[12]
The typical first offering on MD is 2 to 3 billion. What you are asking for is more suitable as a personal loan from one player who either knows you or is willing to take a punt. There have been exceptions. Kalni's first bond was for around 500m. It was audited (by me). The MD audit fund provided support.
You will definitely need to raise your interest rate to +/- 10%.
That said, I'd strongly advise you to get away from the fast food, instant gratification mentality and make at least your first billion by yourself. There's a few reasons for that. It isn't hard to do. You will learn more. It should give you more satisfaction, knowing you've done it yourself. You still don't know if you have what it takes to be a trader, not with the sums you're investing currently.
One other thing - the moment you draw on public funds, your approach to the game changes. You can no longer take a few days off just because you're bored, whatever. You have a responsibility to your investors and you have to work religiously to fulfil that responsibility.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.07.20 23:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xre Vega
You could have provided this information, however you seem to want to offer it only if I ask. I suppose this is your way of validating your existence on these forums.
See this is where my reputation for nasty originates - the hard learners. Oh well, you did indeed ask and I will answer. Since reading seems to be your lesser talent I will reiterate: Your request, in form/detail/manner, has been used/seen many times as troll or joke posts. I noticed that after several dozen views and no responses that I might step in and I decided to do so cautiously. Until further information came, from you, there was no objective way to see if this was yet one of the many trolling posts. Now there are so many levels of insult that could be delivered unto you but it is not worth it. You will either be clueless or not based upon your own abilities. Of course to me, you seem to be poster child for your generation: Why think when you can just go along with whatever stupidity is shouting the loudest. Hoorah for going along on the ride to least common denominator. In closing, I was trying to validate your existence on these forums. Congratulations, you've confirmed it and the nature of it.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.07.20 23:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Xre Vega on 20/07/2010 23:52:10
**** yea, unlimited ISK machine here I come.
Just trying it out. No need to jump down my throat for doing something that has done before (station trading with other's ISK). I tried offering my window washing service to station owners in 0.0 but no one seemed to want that.
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Looby Loo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.21 01:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xre Vega
I started with 20m and have made 12m profit on this in the past couple weeks. My problem is that I don't have enough capital to field as many buy orders as I would like to, thus slowing me down.
Did you only log in, like, twice?
Your problem is that you're not working hard enough or you're buying the wrong things.
T2 is ridiculously competitive, particularly in Jita. Not saying you shouldn't as some items really do offer massive turnover, which counts for little if you're not logged on, but at least spread it out with some less obvious items..
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.07.21 01:39:00 -
[16]
..two things:
Xre - Work harder.
Shar - You are useless. Except to spin everything to your favor. Post a response in the thread you started. Until then, you are useless.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.07.21 08:44:00 -
[17]
Edited by: RAW23 on 21/07/2010 08:45:13
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Xre: My response to you was intentionally brief as it was also a probe. I did not know if you were serious or not, a lot of troll threads look just like yours.
If you had responded to me with a question then I would have known you were serious enough to give more of an answer. If you had been someone who could not give a rat's ass enough to ask, I'd be happy to not give a rat's ass enough to post more than I did.
That did not come about and I apologize for the trouble I have brought to you thread.
In summary, Shar expects you to behave differently to the way he behaves. He can troll and be as unpleasant as he likes because this is done in pursuit of a master plan. But when you respond to him you better be suitably respectful and take his trolling damn seriously. Basically, Shar is better than the rest of us and deserves to be treated in a special way.
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Casmy Blue
Gallente
Power and Water
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Posted - 2010.07.21 12:46:00 -
[18]
I just thought I'd drop by and say that in the grand scheme of the MD forum, I'd much prefer to read bitterness and deceit than happiness and self-love.
Could you imagine what would happen if the forum participants didn't respond to threads like these with (what one might interpret as) scathing poignancy?
People would get the wrong idea.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 21/07/2010 09:02:10
Edited by: RAW23 on 21/07/2010 08:45:13
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Xre: My response to you was intentionally brief as it was also a probe. I did not know if you were serious or not, a lot of troll threads look just like yours.
If you had responded to me with a question then I would have known you were serious enough to give more of an answer. If you had been someone who could not give a rat's ass enough to ask, I'd be happy to not give a rat's ass enough to post more than I did.
That did not come about and I apologize for the trouble I have brought to you thread.
In summary, Shar expects you to behave differently to the way he behaves. He can troll and be as unpleasant as he likes because this is done in pursuit of a master plan. But when you respond to him you better be suitably respectful and take his trolling damn seriously. Basically, Shar is better than the rest of us and deserves to be treated in a special way.
Originally by: Shar
See this is where my reputation for nasty originates - the hard learners.
Please don't delude yourself. Your reputation for being a nasty piece of work derives from your consistent nastiness and the evident pleasure you take in trying to be offensive and demeaning.
..NailOnTheHead.jpg
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Max Cetera
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:56:00 -
[20]
Xre you should just keep trading with your cash a bit more and come back when you're not asking for 25 times more money than you have without collateral.
And this thread as been Shared to death, just give up on it since it's as useless as that troll now
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