2 ASBs per ship thankfully got banned before the tournament because use of that would have been catastrophic. 1 ASB use needs nerfing in some way also, however, perhaps reducing the number that can be fielded per match, or changing the module slightly - reducing the capacity so it has less cycles but also reducing the reload time? The prevalence of it in the tournament is getting a bit silly and in my opinion a bit overpowered, and it also makes the matches get kind of boring to watch.

Watching an armor vs shield match where the shield team gets logistics as well as nearly a minute of huge boosting on each ship, with bonuses on the cyclone, sleipnir and vargur means it's going to be a whitewash every time in favour of the shield team, simply because you can't pump out enough dps to beat both reps from a logi as well as the ASB before one of your major dps ships dies.

Pretty much every armor vs shield match goes like this:

Shield ship gets low-ish shield -> reps up with ASB and starts reloading -> logis hold it up until it is reloaded -> armor dps ship is already dead -> match is already over. ASBs cause matches to be over in 3 minutes when a majority of the losing team's ships are alive simply because of the huge amount of dps it can tank and how there is no dps left on the field to stay alive long enough to make it use the charges, then overcome the logi too.

TL;DR ASBs give too much tank and use should be nerfed because watching a shield team roflstomp an armor team every match is a tad boring simply because there is not enough dps left to deal with an ASB

When you have 3 vargurs and a scimitar, all with ASBs, all requiring nearly a minute of shooting to get past their ASBs and then needing to beat their logi and kill them in the next minute - and you have to do that for each Vargur in turn without your dps ships dying, it's a bit silly. Clearly you're PL so you're going to defend your tactics and I'm not attacking PL for it in particular - I've seen this ASB tactic used all tournament and I just think actually, Soundwave, it reduces variety in the tournament - there is no reason to not fit a shield booster which gives huge boosts and isn't affected at all by neuts which could previously counter shield tank setups.

It isn't so much nerf, but what is needed is instead of booster giving free boost. it should just reduce the cap needed per cycle.

But, if they don't reload then they can just use all 13 charges.

Look at this match at the moment - Mildly Intoxicated - Raiden.

Those 3 Proteuses were unable to take down a webbed Sleipnir for a solid minute, and the logi was long dead. It's a bit silly.

This just in: ASBs not overpowered because a single ASB will be broken by 3x Proteuses.

PS: a XL-ASB + Invulnerability Field II on a Sleipnir is already a 1k dps tank.

xl asb tank on sleipnir - 2490 dps overheated
xl asb tank on vargur - 2000 oh
fitting - 200/500
reps from asb are neut proof

Only because on the BS level you can't oversize the ASB. For everything else, the ASB is ridiculously overpowered. If XXL-ASBs existed, the Maelstrom would wipe the floor with the Vindi without breaking a sweat.

Shocking news!
Pirate battleship (also most dpsing subcap in eve) was able to consistently beat tech 1 battleship. Proof that asbs are not unbalanced at all!!

This post is a classic example of grath telkin being bitter and pretending to understand game mechanics.

And you? Are you serious? You are basing validity of your argument on comparing most dpsing pirate bs (that has like 50% more dps, better tracking, lower signature, higher speed, higher agility, 90% web +1 "free" mid) to plain tech 1 bs...

Why not just balance it out and ask Ccp to make an armour variant AAR that way it makes it viable to field an armour fleet that can finally active tank for a change. The asb is fine but it needs to be balanced with an armour type.

ps. I don't really want to be in a goon pet alliance

At that point in the match, all that was left was the Sleipnir and two Harpies. If you think two Harpies are going to jam out 3 Dis. Seq. Proteuses - even have a significant amount of ECM fitted on a team which already has FOUR rooks then um.....what?

]Not for an extended period of time, but if you were actually watching the stream you would have seen with your own eyes that the ASB Sleipnir, webbed, survived for at least 45 seconds under the attack of the 3 Proteuses. That's not me being clueless, that's me seeing something actually happen in the tournament and then using it.

90% web will ensure that the Vindi gets good hits every time. If you consider it relevant or not, it doesn't really matter a huge deal either way. You're comparing a monster dps faction BS to a T1 BS and somehow trying to use that to support your claim.

Ok guys, who is going to tell him about that angular velocity, sig radius and tracking stuff?

.

yo you insulting this man because you don't understand angular displacement?

Hey, dumbass. Vindi has like 50m/s advantage, 100m sig radius advantage and 0.15-0.20 ang/s tracking advantage. Assuming mael has web fittted - most dont. Thats not counting using 5th mid of vindi for something like tracking disruptor... (actually fun fact - xlasb in that mid without any resist mods bar dc tanks as much dps as lar with 2x eanms). And this will make noticeable difference in quality of hits...

You're not factoring in the effects of the boosting ship's resists. A sleipnir heating its invuln will have >70% resists across the baord, so that ~400 shield boosted per second becomes 400/0.3 = 1452 dps tanked while the booster has charges. That almostly completely negates your three proteuses and their combined 1500 outgoing dps while the sleip has charges loaded.

If the only way to counter a module is to bring one of your own, then that module is not balanced.

Btw. the ASB is making the Curse and other neut ships useless for small scale fights.

Sure the Curse is often the primary in small scale fights but it has a major role if you face a skirmish gang with say 2 to 4 Scimis. With a dampener Drake+Curse setup you can beat those skirmish logi setup without needing any logis on your own. I don't have to explain to you what happens to the Rapier, Huginn and the odd Loki in such fights, they are dampned/neuted to hell and in case of the Rapier, Huginn primary too. Of course you have to make sure some scimis are dampned too, to beat the RR. After that it's a clean up job, damp and neut the Scimis either forcing them out of the fight or into your own optimal range.

The ASB will make small scale skirmish logi setups history, except the standard Drake+Scimi and so the Curse.

Hey Grath, what happens if all 3-4 of those people have asbs you have to chew through. OK good talk.

And let's say you don't have those alts, what then? Try not to slip into ad hominem, it does nothing to advance your argument.

So your new counter-argument is "people in eve are blobbing faggots so why even bother balancing the ASB"?

Your argument has slowly degenerated from "no no, it's fine, really" to "lol other things are gay, too"

[quote=Grath Telkin]

This has got to be a troll post as you've managed to destroy your own argument within a few sentences. "ASB are fine because it allows me to fight 4 people while solo and they are trying to gank solo players so it's fair." If not a troll i just don't understand how this situation could be reasonably mistaken for balanced.

Stop over simplifying things.... 4v1 could always be done prior to asb, however it took specific flying and required for specific counter fits to not be present. The thing about the 4v1 situation you talk about with asb is that it's a brawling situation... Never should 1 person of similar ship class be able to take 4 other similarly skilled players in a throw down brawl situation especially when looking at the low relative cost of these asb fits... I'm sorry but saying something stupid like "Yea I mean honestly numbers should always be the only thing in EVE that matters what the hells wrong with me right?" is a deplorable fail counter argument at best. No where did i ever mention that eve should be strictly based around numbers... Stop grasping at straws garth, you're not good at it.

Re read again please, you will notice that i stated it could be done prior to asbs so long as specific counters were not present. Also you will notice that the 4v1s i'm talking about being broken post asb patch is in regards to "brawling" not kiting which would have been the most applicable way to win a 4v1 prior to asb. As far as 4v1 brawling of similar ship class/pilots prior to asb it was only really achievable through the use offgrids, boosters, and faction/dead space gear. Also this would require the lack again ofspecific counters being present, in the case of these pre asb super tanks these were nuets...

With the introduction of asb the primary counter to these super tanks is no longer available, further more the lack of required cap booster means you have extra slots available for either a back up asb or invulns/boost amps. Currently the only real viable counter to an asb super tank is to bring more dps/people... The whole "wait for his charges to run out" is again dependent on the dps fielded.

As for the whole me getting owned by some asb scrublord... Naaa man, i'm not about it for personal interest, i'm about it for the health of eve. Current asb mechanics are not healthy for eve by any stretch of argument and will most certainly be nerfed within a years time.