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Valiermox	Posted - 2010.07.23 05:08:00 - [1] Alrighty fellow CAPSULE pilots, got a question for ya. I just got my skills to fly an assault ship right, and I wonder exactly which ship from the Minmatar I should fly. I know the Wolf has more high slots for cannons, but the Jaguar has a bit more CPU right? I'm not entirely sure, but this is what I want from my assault ship: A certain amount of toughness (as much as a frig class can take) Fast speeds (need to get to my target afterall) Fire power (this one is obvious) and enough capacitor to keep me in the fight. If any of you could help me with this issue, I'd really appreciate it. Valiermox signing off
Muad' Dib Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.23 05:35:00 - [2] Jag is better as a heavy tackler, but it has less range on dps. If you go solo though, ab + scram + mse + webb/mse. In highs ac's to fit and lows to fit the mids. If you go tackle, mwd + disruptor + mse/ab/scram/webb. Lows and highs to fit those. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Smabs	Posted - 2010.07.23 05:38:00 - [3] It really depends on what you're doing. The jag has a great tank and is reasonably fast so it makes a nice tackler for smaller gangs. The wolf is slower but has massive dps and really good falloff with autocannons. The tank on it is pretty good, too. Personally I like the wolf because it's a bit more fun to fly, but if you're looking to get tackles on stuff or want a more well-rounded ship then the jaguar is probably the way to go.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.23 07:19:00 - [4] Jag is more suited to various things that go bump in the night. It can take on a lot of different ships. Wolf is more specialised and has a narrower target selection. Both are efficient in the right hands, and both are very fun to fly. Same skills for both, so just fly them and see which suits you more. _______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well!
Ray Tucker	Posted - 2010.07.23 07:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Valiermox Alrighty fellow CAPSULE pilots, got a question for ya. I just got my skills to fly an assault ship right, and I wonder exactly which ship from the Minmatar I should fly. I know the Wolf has more high slots for cannons, but the Jaguar has a bit more CPU right? I'm not entirely sure, but this is what I want from my assault ship: A certain amount of toughness (as much as a frig class can take) Fast speeds (need to get to my target afterall) Fire power (this one is obvious) and enough capacitor to keep me in the fight. If any of you could help me with this issue, I'd really appreciate it. Valiermox signing off Dramiel >>>> Jaguar > Wolf
Headerman	Posted - 2010.07.23 07:50:00 - [6] I like the Jag better, it has better CPU and power i believe. 150mm ACs on it can shoot any drone out in 2 volleys :)
Valiermox	Posted - 2010.07.23 08:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Ray Tucker Originally by: Valiermox Alrighty fellow CAPSULE pilots, got a question for ya. I just got my skills to fly an assault ship right, and I wonder exactly which ship from the Minmatar I should fly. I know the Wolf has more high slots for cannons, but the Jaguar has a bit more CPU right? I'm not entirely sure, but this is what I want from my assault ship: A certain amount of toughness (as much as a frig class can take) Fast speeds (need to get to my target afterall) Fire power (this one is obvious) and enough capacitor to keep me in the fight. If any of you could help me with this issue, I'd really appreciate it. Valiermox signing off Dramiel >>>> Jaguar > Wolf I don't feel like spending 50 mil for a ship, and then more for equipping it ya know? Anyway, it seems the Jaguar is better for me, but I want more DPS. is this so wrong?
Anddeh McNab Matari Department of Gun Control	Posted - 2010.07.23 08:58:00 - [8] Wolf is one of my favourite ships to fly in fleets. I like to build them as glass cannons. Four 250mm arties in highs, AB and point in the midsm 2 gyrostabs and 2 nanofibers in the lows. You can go crazy and add some damage rigs if you want too. Helloooo 1k alpha on a frigate sized hull. Admittedly not much use if you're fighting alot of things bigger than cruisers but it was hilarious in FW frigate fleets. Jag you can stick a pretty decent buffer tank on which makes it ideal to get up close and personal with the enemy to keep it in place with webs/points.
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.23 08:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Valiermox Anyway, it seems the Jaguar is better for me, but I want more DPS. is this so wrong? Get both, it's not that they're extremely expensive. Try out which one suits your style most. Personally I like the slot layout of the Jag best but that's just me.
Pasadenasman	Posted - 2010.07.23 09:29:00 - [10] there is an other ship ppl forget. The firetail. arty fitted and dual props you have a semi dramiel/stiletto with a 800 alpha for the price of a T2 frig. rifter seams to don't like it... same for bomber landing on gate...

Ahz	Posted - 2010.07.24 07:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Pasadenasman there is an other ship ppl forget. The firetail. arty fitted and dual props you have a semi dramiel/stiletto with a 800 alpha for the price of a T2 frig. Not even close. Firetail has similar fitting to the Dramiel, but no drones. As for the age old Wolf versus Jaguar question: Wolf is damage king. Works best in fleets IMO. Two mids limits the tackle. Can be fit with armor tank or speed mods. Jag is best all-rounder. Works well, solo for dogfights or in missions in my opinion. Solid shield tank. Or you can go for duel prop or tackle fit. Depends on what you want to use it for. I'm typically in a Jaguar unless I'm in a gang.
Valiermox Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.24 07:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Ahz Originally by: Pasadenasman there is an other ship ppl forget. The firetail. arty fitted and dual props you have a semi dramiel/stiletto with a 800 alpha for the price of a T2 frig. Not even close. Firetail has similar fitting to the Dramiel, but no drones. As for the age old Wolf versus Jaguar question: Wolf is damage king. Works best in fleets IMO. Two mids limits the tackle. Can be fit with armor tank or speed mods. Jag is best all-rounder. Works well, solo for dogfights or in missions in my opinion. Solid shield tank. Or you can go for duel prop or tackle fit. Depends on what you want to use it for. I'm typically in a Jaguar unless I'm in a gang. And isn't the Firetail just a frig? Not an assault ship? Just wondering. Yeah, I do a lot of mission running and I'm typically a pointer for it, so I know the Wolf would probably be the best for that, and yeah the Jaguar has more mids I noticed, so perhaps the better tackler. The only problem I've run into, along with any frig, is the CPU. Never seem to have enough to fit what I need on it. Already got projectile rigs on my main wolf, not sure what to fit on the Jaguar. Perhaps you or someone here can help me with fitting the Wolf and Jaguar to see the roles? I'd really appreciate it.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr	Posted - 2010.07.24 13:54:00 - [13] I have been playing around with both for a long time. Jaguar is much more versatile; it does considerably less damage and has a larger signature radius. It is a supremely good tackler, it is faster than the wolf. Its optimal bonus is relatively useless. For fighting other frigates, the Jag is an excellent choice, I like to run AB/web/scam/MSE or, more often, MWD/AB/Scram/MSE. Can usually get out of a fight if it goes south. I ignored the Wolf, off and on, for a while; my first "real" PvP kill was in a wolf, vs a Thorax, and I got there after my corpmate had done a whole 130 or so damage before dying-the wolf took it down. It is slower, has a much smaller sig radius, does much more DPS, and has a more useful bonus, ie, falloff. 2 mids suck, but you can get around that. Wolf is a cruiser killer. I like to run 150s/nos, MWD/scram, and tank/TE lows (TE helps pop drones, A LOT.) If i am looking for frigs, nos swaps for a neut. I like them both, though as of late the wolf is getting my nod. I miss running an AB, but youre simply too damn slow in a frig to catch anything, including most cruisers, with an AB. Space is fun!
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.24 14:22:00 - [14] Both ships lack what most good frigs / ceptors get as a bonus - tracking for their turrets. Thus most AB frigs can out-track both of those AS unless webbed - something the wolf is not likely to do. At least the jag has enough midslots to fit a web. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.07.24 14:47:00 - [15] If I remember right you can fit 2 medium shield extenders on a Jag. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.24 16:15:00 - [16] I prefer the jag as its so damn versatile with the 4 mids and great omni shield resists which free up those precious lows for even moar versatility. It's like a super rifter. The wolf on the other hand is really only good in a few gank role situations which the jag can also fill though with a bit less dps. But then again we are talking about frigate level dps so the gap is around 50 dps total on gank fits which is not even close enough imo to give up +2 mids and a fair amount of speed. I mean what would you choose? 300 overheated dps with the choice of no tackle or no tank on the wolf. Or. 250 overheated dps with a tank and full tackle on the jag along with moar speed in the bargin? Originally by: Ava Starfire does much more DPS, wtb: armour tanked te wolf that outdamages a shield tank gyro jag. Plugging your fit into eft gives me right at 160 dps for the wolf whilst the jag gets around 190. And the wolf still has less ehp(except vs em which is a bit higher) lacks a web and is slower and less agile. Of course the wolf has the potential for greater dps but I already covered that above. Originally by: Diomidis Both ships lack what most good frigs / ceptors get as a bonus - tracking for their turrets. Thus most AB frigs can out-track both of those AS unless webbed - something the wolf is not likely to do. At least the jag has enough midslots to fit a web. Good point about soloing vs dual prop or afterburning frigates and has lost me a few ships over the years but that is pretty rare to find in these blobby days. Tbh the high base tracking of ac means that this single situation is about the only one where no tracking bonus makes a real difference. Besides if you do find yourself in a 1 vs 1 with an ares or some other ab fit frig you can still get around it with a single te or a metastasis rig or even a td instead of the web if you want. Just make sure you can fit a neut and cap them out so they can't shoot you anymore or pulse the prop mod. Originally by: Ghoest If I remember right you can fit 2 medium shield extenders on a Jag. Oh yes. Its a god amoungst frigate tacklers in full nano shield tank mode as it can even chase down and hold nanocanes burning away from a gate whilst getting hammered in the face by low transversal 425's as it catches up. The jag is simply an uber heavy fast tackle with top skills and implants. <3 Jaguars Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Ninetails o'Cat League of Super Evil	Posted - 2010.07.24 16:29:00 - [17] [offtopic] So you want a ship with EHP, DPS, Speed and Cap? What sacrifices are you willing to make? [/offtopic] For most situations, a Jag is better than a wolf, because it generally has more speed and HP, along with four midslots for the optimum combinations of stuff for a frigate. However, in a frigate gang, a Wolf can be nasty and spit out a fair bit of DPS a fair way.
Valiermox Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.25 04:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 24/07/2010 17:23:23 I prefer the jag as its so damn versatile with the 4 mids and great omni shield resists which free up those precious lows for even moar versatility. It's like a super rifter. The wolf on the other hand is really only good in a few gank role situations which the jag can also fill though with a bit less dps. But then again we are talking about frigate level dps and the gap is around 50 dps total on gank fits which is not big enough imo to give up +2 mids and a fair amount of speed. I mean what would you choose? 300 overheated dps with the choice of no tackle or no tank on the wolf. Or. 250 overheated dps with a tank and full tackle on the jag along with moar speed in the bargin? Originally by: Ava Starfire does much more DPS, wtb: armour tanked te wolf that outdamages a shield tank gyro jag. Plugging your fit into eft gives me right at 160 dps for the wolf whilst the jag gets around 190. And the wolf still has less ehp(except vs em which is a bit higher) lacks a web and is slower and less agile. Of course the wolf has the potential for greater dps but I already covered that above. Originally by: Diomidis Both ships lack what most good frigs / ceptors get as a bonus - tracking for their turrets. Thus most AB frigs can out-track both of those AS unless webbed - something the wolf is not likely to do. At least the jag has enough midslots to fit a web. Good point about soloing vs dual prop or afterburning frigates and has lost me a few ships over the years but that is pretty rare to find in these blobby days. Tbh the high base tracking of ac means that this single situation is about the only one where no tracking bonus makes a real difference. Besides if you do find yourself in a 1 vs 1 with an ares or some other ab fit frig you can still get around it with a single te or a metastasis rig or even a td instead of the web if you want. Just make sure you can fit a neut and cap them out so they can't shoot you anymore or pulse the prop mod. Originally by: Ghoest If I remember right you can fit 2 medium shield extenders on a Jag. Oh yes. Its a god amoungst frigate tacklers in full nano shield tank mode as it can even chase down and hold nanocanes burning away from a gate whilst getting hammered in the face by low transversal 425's as it catches up. The jag is simply an uber heavy fast tackle with top skills and implants. <3 Jaguars I've gotta say that you have the most convincing argument in the Wolf vs Jag argument I have set forth for you all. Now maybe I'll have to work on shield skills (since I have used mostly armor tanking ships) if I really want to make a Jag work nicely. If you also have a fit for a good heavy tackling Jag, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you everyone for your arguments, feedback and sarcastic comments. It really helps me get a good idea of what I should be doing character and skill wise as well.
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2010.07.25 16:33:00 - [19] Get 6 or 7 Wolves, add one or two Vigils with TDs (for corpies who can't fly T2 ), add a Sentinel and a Griffin/Kitsune for flavour. Let it bake for a few roams. Take it out of the station and let it cool for 5 minutes. Voila, the Wolfpack.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.25 18:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Bomberlocks Get 6 or 7 Wolves, add one or two Vigils with TDs (for corpies who can't fly T2 ), add a Sentinel and a Griffin/Kitsune for flavour. Let it bake for a few roams. Take it out of the station and let it cool for 5 minutes. Voila, the Wolfpack. Then watch as your glass cannon gank wolves start dying one by one to random crap as the roam continues. Replace those wolves with jags however and you get nearly the same aggregate dps(certainly enough dps to quickly dispatch bs and lower) whilst being able to mount tackle, a tank and ew shineys like damps to increase lock time and td to arse raep turret ships or even dual prop it for epic cruiser and battle cruiser raepage. If you already have the required ew along then you can tank them up and lulz at pretty much any anti frig stuff you run across. Just not really seeing where a wolf is better than a jag which begs the question when will af get their 4th bonus? A tracking bonus added to the wolf would make it an awesome arty boat and a real threat as a gank boat due to being able to hit all ships regardless of prop mod. Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.

Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.07.25 18:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Bomberlocks Get 6 or 7 Wolves, add one or two Vigils with TDs (for corpies who can't fly T2 ), add a Sentinel and a Griffin/Kitsune for flavour. Let it bake for a few roams. Take it out of the station and let it cool for 5 minutes. Voila, the Wolfpack. Then watch as your glass cannon gank wolves start dying one by one to random crap as the roam continues. Replace those wolves with jags however and you get nearly the same aggregate dps(certainly enough dps to quickly dispatch bs and lower) whilst being able to mount tackle, a tank and ew shineys like damps to increase lock time and td to arse raep turret ships or even dual prop it for epic cruiser and battle cruiser raepage. If you already have the required ew along then you can tank them up and lulz at pretty much any anti frig stuff you run across. Just not really seeing where a wolf is better than a jag which begs the question when will af get their 4th bonus? A tracking bonus added to the wolf would make it an awesome arty boat and a real threat as a gank boat due to being able to hit all ships regardless of prop mod. Let others tackle. Put MSE/prop in the two mids then load the lows with gyro/TE combos. Ain't so glassy anymore with significantly extra punch in its dps vs jag. You should know this by now, Zeba.. we been through this about 57 times! Jag > better solo n fleet tackler Wolf > better dps gang boat or solo PvE ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.25 19:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Umega Let others tackle. Put MSE/prop in the two mids then load the lows with gyro/TE combos. Ain't so glassy anymore with significantly extra punch in its dps vs jag. You should know this by now, Zeba.. we been through this about 57 times! Jag > better solo n fleet tackler Wolf > better dps gang boat or solo PvE Flying with no tackle on the majority of your ships in a frigate gang when the alternative is a small decrease in dps that won't make any effective difference one way or another should be a crime punishible by permapoddeath.. If I saw that you brought a shield tanked no tackle wolf in my frigate gang I'd ask you nicely to replace it with a jag or even a rifter(less of an embarrasement on the killboard) then boot you if you refused. Getting that initial point is paramount and a bunch of shield tanked wolves sitting around a gate is worthless for that. Unless of course you brought enough tackle frigates which would then beg the question why the fvck do we have so many lulz dps tackle frigs to compensate for the no tackle wolves in the first place. Just bring a jag ffs. Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.07.25 19:28:00 - [23] It's ok, Zeba. I'm sure everyone is quite well aware of how much you absolutely love n slurp on the jags. That's fine, it is a fantastic ship. Just don't discount the wolf and what it can bring to the table. I've flown both quite enough to realize that the jag's dps really falls quite short to the wolf's, can dispute that all you want but it is what it is. Everyone doesn't have to have a point.. cause everyone doesn't sit at a gate with their thumb up their ass when they go on gang ROAMS. Can say it should be an all jag fleet.. I personally would prefer a mixture of tackle jags/drams n gank happy wolves simply because the wolves dps is that much more superior. When **** is dead, you don't got to tank or point it anymore. Get it? ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.25 19:46:00 - [24] Edited by: Zeba on 25/07/2010 19:47:09 Originally by: Umega Everyone doesn't have to have a point.. cause everyone doesn't sit at a gate with their thumb up their ass when they go on gang ROAMS. Hey guys lets spread out and hit some belts etc etc then call out and point targets if you find them. Oh, and you guys in the shield tanked wolves go ummm, be worthless I guess. Originally by: Umega Can say it should be an all jag fleet.. An all jag fleet would arse reap an all wolf fleet. Every Single Time. Originally by: Umega I personally would prefer a mixture of tackle jags/drams That would rock! Especially as both can mount great frigate level dps along with the tackle and still toss in some random useful ew mods. Originally by: Umega simply because the wolves dps is that much more superior. And yet it isn't. At least not in a practical sense anyways. Originally by: Umega When ** is dead, you don't got to tank or point it anymore. Get it? Of course. But that is a general statement and applies to any situation. And as has been pointed out the jag has nearly the same or even moar effective dps when compared to a non lulz shield tanked gank wolf of uselessness or the glass cannon tackle gank wolf of soon to die. Both of which are a waste of a precious frigate gang slot. Originally by:** Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.07.25 20:47:00 - [25] I'm not arguing that the jag is the more verstile ship. And don't mislead people, just because you love the jag to no end.. that it actually compares in dps to the wolf. Come on.. you can crack the whip all you want on the jag bandwagon, but don't go spitting out misinformation to boost your case when you don't need to do so. Jag's dps is decent(sorta), but it doesn't come close to a wolf. I don't see how you can really argue this or why you should. And everyone doesn't have to fit their ships, and do their methods the 'Zeba Way'. If your way never fails, then you should have hundreds of followers, control a vast amount of space and rule a majority of the galaxy. But that isn't the case, or even close.. is it? Nothing really wrong at all with pointing out other options for a ship, and an MSE/prop gank fit wolf is an excellent ship. Can sit here and dispute it all you want. Might look a little better to actual admit the point of it still remains.. it is a superior gank ship to a jag. Not everyone has to have a point, its 'overkill' and wasted slots imo in certain situations n gang setups. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.25 20:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Umega I'm not arguing that the jag is the more verstile ship. And don't mislead people, just because you love the jag to no end.. that it actually compares in dps to the wolf. Come on.. you can crack the whip all you want on the jag bandwagon, but don't go spitting out misinformation to boost your case when you don't need to do so. Jag's dps is decent(sorta), but it doesn't come close to a wolf. I don't see how you can really argue this or why you should. And everyone doesn't have to fit their ships, and do their methods the 'Zeba Way'. If your way never fails, then you should have hundreds of followers, control a vast amount of space and rule a majority of the galaxy. But that isn't the case, or even close.. is it? Nothing really wrong at all with pointing out other options for a ship, and an MSE/prop gank fit wolf is an excellent ship. Can sit here and dispute it all you want. Might look a little better to actual admit the point of it still remains.. it is a superior gank ship to a jag. Not everyone has to have a point, its 'overkill' and wasted slots imo in certain situations n gang setups. I want to see actual dps comparisons with useful fits to go alongside your claims as you seem to have a bit of a blurred conception of the actual difference when put in the context of a gang. Either that or I quit replying to you. Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Noskill McCheese Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.25 21:45:00 - [27] The Jag is the better all around ship but the Wolf is far more manly, as such, only ***gots fly the Jag.
Captain Nares	Posted - 2010.07.26 01:45:00 - [28] Go this way, if you drink Coca-Cola: Rifter -> Dramiel.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.07.26 03:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Umega I'm not arguing that the jag is the more verstile ship. And don't mislead people, just because you love the jag to no end.. that it actually compares in dps to the wolf. Come on.. you can crack the whip all you want on the jag bandwagon, but don't go spitting out misinformation to boost your case when you don't need to do so. Jag's dps is decent(sorta), but it doesn't come close to a wolf. I don't see how you can really argue this or why you should. And everyone doesn't have to fit their ships, and do their methods the 'Zeba Way'. If your way never fails, then you should have hundreds of followers, control a vast amount of space and rule a majority of the galaxy. But that isn't the case, or even close.. is it? Nothing really wrong at all with pointing out other options for a ship, and an MSE/prop gank fit wolf is an excellent ship. Can sit here and dispute it all you want. Might look a little better to actual admit the point of it still remains.. it is a superior gank ship to a jag. Not everyone has to have a point, its 'overkill' and wasted slots imo in certain situations n gang setups. I want to see actual dps comparisons with useful fits to go alongside your claims as you seem to have a bit of a blurred conception of the actual difference when put in the context of a gang. Either that or I quit replying to you. I'd say it takes blurred vision to not grasp that +1 turret and +1 low with +falloff trait over optimal = signficantly greater dps. Don't need eft.. just need basic common sense. Don't respond, idc.. why don't you actually prove a jag is on the same tier as a wolf in dps. Otherwise as far as I am concerned, my statement stands til you can prove your point. I'll just continue about my day and half expect you to spin your wheels and dodge the point, and rant about something else other than actually proving a jag is at the same lvl of dps as a wolf. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Gedeon Starchaser	Posted - 2010.07.26 03:43:00 - [30] Why choose? They both require the same skills, for the most part. Buy them both, try them out, see which ones work in which situations. For my part, Wolf is my assault ship of choice. 200mm AC II + Barrage + 2 x TE II + Wolf's falloff bonus make for some unhappy slicers and interceptors who think they can orbit you at 20km and snipe you or lock you down until their friends get there. Solid for missions and for pvp, not the best at anything, but lots of fun.



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