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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.07.23 16:42:00 -
[1]
Of the numerous rigs I manufacture, the most common input component is Tripper Power Circuits.
For a almost a year pefore Tyrannis, TPCs had been sitting right at mid-40Ks. This is where they setteled post the intriduction of small rigs a year ago. Sure, small moves, but right in that range of mid 40Ks.
Within 2 weeks of Tyrannis, TPCs were up to 50K. A couple weeks later, 55K. At this point I tried to grab some cheap in outer systems. 2 weeks later, when they were at 60K, I quit buying. Now we are 8 weeks post Tyrannis, and TPCs are at 65K and still rising.
The problem is that rig prices have not adjusted up. I personally, have upped all my sell prices for items that require TPCs and not watch for sell orders to fall below TPC price and buy the stuff up for parts.
What I'm wondering is why TPCs are going up.
My first assertion is that TPCs, having long been expensive, we not overly stockpiled. I know I personally had 10s or 100s of thousands of other cheaper bits on hand, but kept the more expensive purchases to a minimum to allow me to adjust quickly to market conditions. Since TPCs are highly required and low stockpile, I think they are running out first. Other items may follow.
So, is this an increase in demad for rigs or a drop in supply of salvage? I'm not aware of any changes that would increase demand, but there are possibilites as to a drop in supply.
Salvage, I believe was largly coming from newbs (relatively good pay for fairly low skills) and mission runners that would go back and loot and salvage their mission after running them.
So, newbs: Tyrannis gave us planetary interaction, another fairly low skill way for newer players to make fairly good money. A lot less time intensive than salvage.
Mission runners: I know that when I was still mission running as my primary source of income, my skills were improving to the point that it was pretty close to the break even on going back and looting and salvaging or just running another mission. This was based on maybe 5-10 million an hour salvage and an equal amout in loot vs 10-20 million from bounties and LP. Take out the bulk of the loot, and going back into the mission space to loot it becomes far less profitable then just running another mission.
So, looking for opinion on this.
Am I way off base in suspecting that there is less salvaging going on now? TPC a canarry in the coal mine as I believe, or a fluke with one item?
Personally, I'm thinking that the price of salvage will increase to the point that it becomes profitable for mission runners to bother to salvage their L4s now that the loot has been nerfed. I'd guess 75-100% price increase from pre-Tyrannis prices to make that worth while. Of course, the price of rigs is also likely to increase a good 50-75% as they will be profitable to buy and reprocess back into parts at current price levels.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2010.07.23 18:14:00 -
[2]
Insurance Change.
BS's aren't bein' 'self'-ploded and thus not being salvaged afterwards.
Loot + mission changes.
Missions move around more, ninjas can't sit in a hub.. have to move around for less loot, so some have quit the art of ninja salvage.
One, two punch to trips. All salvage (cept T2 salvage which is going down) on raise last I checked.. altho yes, trips are the most significant in their change.
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-Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
Vasundhara
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Posted - 2010.07.23 19:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vasundhara on 23/07/2010 19:29:38
 Originally by: Umega
Insurance Change.
BS's aren't bein' 'self'-ploded and thus not being salvaged afterwards.
I thought tech 1 player ships didn't salvage for anything other than metal scraps.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2010.07.23 20:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vasundhara
Edited by: Vasundhara on 23/07/2010 19:29:38
Originally by: Umega
Insurance Change.
BS's aren't bein' 'self'-ploded and thus not being salvaged afterwards.
I thought tech 1 player ships didn't salvage for anything other than metal scraps.
Honestly don't know. Didn't take part in insurance fraud, nor salvage player wrecks.. it is jus' one of the several speculations on trips that I've come across.
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-Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
Amke
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Posted - 2010.07.23 23:02:00 -
[5]
I can confirm that self destructed ships produced salvage, remember getting quite a bit but I did not record the amounts of each type.
So yeh the insurance change would have the effect mentioned and add to the more widely publicised loot change.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.07.24 04:36:00 -
[6]
This is just my personal view: I don't bother with salvaging/looting in missions anymore, unless it's tons of BS wrecks, just not worth the time (or boredom).
So I guess the loot nerf -> less people salvage.
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Mrgwr
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Posted - 2010.07.24 05:29:00 -
[7]
It doesn't appear to really be supply related. There is still more or less similar volumes of TPC (and every salvage) being sold in the regions I see, as opposed to pre-Tyrannis, or even a year ago.
There's either a sudden influx of bloodthirsty new rig manufacturers who will pay any price, or someone is deliberately driving prices up on key salvage components (check today's armor plates orders). I wonder which it is.
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Jonna Bluemoon
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Posted - 2010.07.24 09:32:00 -
[8]
Well imagine this... One guy did build over 10 000 Rokhs just for doing insuranse fraud, imagine how much extra salvage was being generated when multiple entities were doing insuranse fraud...
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Lupalis Longtail
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Posted - 2010.07.24 09:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mrgwr
It doesn't appear to really be supply related. There is still more or less similar volumes of TPC (and every salvage) being sold in the regions I see, as opposed to pre-Tyrannis, or even a year ago.
There's either a sudden influx of bloodthirsty new rig manufacturers who will pay any price, or someone is deliberately driving prices up on key salvage components (check today's armor plates orders). I wonder which it is.
Same volume.. well its slightly less actually, and more telling, there is almost no "sell" supply.
And shield rigs are certainly up. 1.9->2.2 and climbing.
TPC's can easily go to 200k, and shield rigs would still be only 4 mil.
It is probably less salvagers, plus rig makers getting nervous and buying what they can :)
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vondronage
vondronage Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.28 01:04:00 -
[10]
Compared to my other activities, I do a LOT of salvaging. The three main items I see when I salvage are Burned Logic Citcuits, Charred Microcircuits, and Tripped Power Circuits. I've been wondering why the price of TPC have been going up lately too. (not that I'm complaining)
I have a couple possible contributing causes in mind.
Perhaps the few thousand mining ships destroyed during Hulkagedden has miners who produce their own rigs buying them. Battle clinic has the most popular Hulk fitting using a Large Capacitor control Curcuit (65 TPC each) which for 1000 hulks would account for 65,000 TPC. Covetors are showing that a Large Drone Mining Augmentor (100 TPC) is a popular rig along with dual Cargohold Optimization (68 TPC x 2 = 136 + 100 = 236). I didn't see anything for retrievers which seemed to be a popular hulkagedden target, but I know when I flew a retriever I had 3 Cargohold optimization rigs on it.
The other possibility, is that salvage isn't returning as many units per-ship as it used to. I've been looking at my counts with one eyebrow raised for a few weeks now wondering if I'm going crazy, or if I'm not getting as much salvage as I used to.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.07.28 01:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: vondronage
(65 TPC each) which for 1000 hulks would account for 65,000 TPC.
Checked Hemitar region, and in that one region more than 50K a day change hands. I highly doubt a universe wide 50-100K extra demand over a week or more would even budge the needle. (Confirm no real change in volume changing hands on the market.)
Interesting that demand hasn't dropped despite a 50-60% price increase. I simply don't see that much that can still be manufactured with enough profit to justify TPCs. I've switched to exclusively manufacturing rigs that don't need them.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.07.28 10:27:00 -
[12]
I can confirm that TPC donŠt drop that often than pre-dominion. When salvaging (may it be mission rats or belt rats) most of the time you are getting those worthless items like "damaged artificial" or "contaminated lorenz fluid".
This may cause a price spike as well.
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vondronage
vondronage Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.28 10:39:00 -
[13]
Edited by: vondronage on 28/07/2010 10:41:29
Quote:
Checked Hemitar region, and in that one region more than 50K a day change hands. I highly doubt a universe wide 50-100K extra demand over a week or more would even budge the needle. (Confirm no real change in volume changing hands on the market.)
I'm not so sure an increase in demand is going to create a spike in volume with salvaged materials at first. People buying more of them, isn't going to create an increase in the number of units available. People need time to realize there is a demand, then they need to find a place to get them.
The place I hang out in has mostly people flying around shooting stuff and abandoning the wrecks. I fly a myrm setup primarily for tank and salvaging so I regularly go in and clean up anywhere between 50-100 TPC worth of wrecks before I start using my drones to create wrecks for myself. There's really no immediately aparent way I could collect any more salvage than I already do.
Another thought that just came to mind, is how many Ninja Salvagers took a break from salvaging to participate in hulkagedden? I don't ninjasalvage, so I have no clue how much X Ninja Salvagers taking a week long vacation would dent the supply of materials.
Maybe miners control more of the TPC supply than we know about, and they're taxing everyone to make up for hulkagedden.
I'm convinced that hulkagedden, somehow or another, has something to do with this. lol
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Sempress Kaye
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Posted - 2010.07.28 12:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mrgwr
key salvage components.
This is the self explanatory reason why sellers up that price it seems at the moment.
That, and the assumption that less people salvage.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.07.28 12:45:00 -
[15]
I think its pretty simple as someone mentioned above. Because of the loot nerf less missioneers/ratters bother to loot/salvage.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.08.04 19:03:00 -
[16]
Well, tripped power circuits continued their climb to 75K in the region where I operate. 45k to 75K is quite the run up. Then it looked like the price broke and they dropped back. I sold at 71-72K-ish. Don't recall exact.
They kept falling to 68K, and I was thinking that it was just bubble and we'd see prices fall back close to where they were. Nope. In came the buy orders and prices, last I checked, were back up around 72K.
Jury still out, but there sure feels like there is something real to this move and not just a buying panic.
Anyway, until I see a good move on the rig prices, I'm still not a buyer at this price level. The margins are just too thin.
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Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.08.04 19:40:00 -
[17]
So is insurance "fraud" ok by CCP?
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.08.04 19:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xre Vega
So is insurance "fraud" ok by CCP?
Self-destructing ships or otherwise intentioanlly destroying them just to get the insurance is not a EULA violation. However, CCP has said they do not want insurance to pay out equal or more than the cost of the materials required to build the ship.
Let's see if they follow through with the stated plan of continually adjusting insurance payout to keep it below market cost of minerals.
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