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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.24 08:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Cista2 on 24/07/2010 08:22:21
MD could use some new initiatives, some new blood, and fewer scams in the 10-15 bn isk category. Therefore I am thinking of launching a new stock exchange for small corps.
Are you someone that would like to issue shares on your business, but you feel you are too much of a newcomer to be accepted here? Then this could be just the thing for you.
Anyone is allowed to issue shares, but there are two special conditions for launching on this stock market. One is that the first batch of shares gives you just 20 mil isk of from investors. These very cheap shares will be bought up quickly and will then increase in value. During the introduction period you will find your footing as a company manager, report to your investors and plan the dividends to pay in the future. Within weeks you can issue more shares, at any prize you want.
The second special thing about the shares is that there is no buyback of principal. The shares get their value only from the dividends that you pay out. In order to get a high price on your shares, you must pay high dividends. This means you wonĘt be stuck with too much debt. And investors will get their investment paid back gradually and do not risk losing a large principal.
More details are available, but the first step is to see if anyone is interested.
Contact me if you want to sell yourself!
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
SRS.
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Posted - 2010.07.24 08:34:00 -
[2]
First batch is worth 20m isk?
Ok kids, I'm selling 1 share as my first batch!
Secondly, price, not prize
Store |
Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.07.24 08:54:00 -
[3]
A+ for effort mate.
-L
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.07.24 09:27:00 -
[4]
Why would you pay "high dividends" to people who have invested only 20M in the business?
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.24 09:40:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Estel Arador
Why would you pay "high dividends" to people who have invested only 20M in the business?
To attract more investors. As with any ipo, there's a dynamic between what the investors expect to get, and what they will pay for it.
In this particular structure, instead of small dividends and a final principal payback, the investment will be paid back gradually. Maybe "rates" are a more appropriate term than "dividends".
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Regis Nex
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Posted - 2010.07.24 15:17:00 -
[6]
Interested, sent you a good mail.
Booboo Bear Pew Pew |
Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.07.24 15:38:00 -
[7]
For more info, look in this thread
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Stealing Honest
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
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Posted - 2010.07.24 15:47:00 -
[8]
We at SHSG are interested. This has potential, and i like the idea. I'll send an eve mail 
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.24 16:14:00 -
[9]
Thanks for the interest already.
More details on this stock exchange idea can be found here.
Please understand that this is a working document and subject to change. Any sort of criticism on the ideas is most welcome at this point.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Stealing Honest
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:16:00 -
[10]
Ok help me understand here. If i release 1000 shares as a start up company, that's 100% of my companies shares. How do i as ceo keep control of the company and voting rights if i maintain no shares?
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cista2 on 24/07/2010 17:32:06
Originally by: Stealing Honest
Ok help me understand here. If i release 1000 shares as a start up company, that's 100% of my companies shares. How do i as ceo keep control of the company and voting rights if i maintain no shares?
Good point. You can create more shares, for instance 2,000 more, to make sure you still have majority. The regulation simply says that you only release 1,000 to LLSE, and also that shares should only be sold through LLSE.
So before sending shares to LLSE, make sure you still have a majority. But don't make too many, because that will make your payment of dividends a nuisance (a problem I always had with my Jidsale company).
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Dezolf
Minmatar
DAX Action Stance
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dezolf on 24/07/2010 17:28:40
Originally by: Stealing Honest
Ok help me understand here. If i release 1000 shares as a start up company, that's 100% of my companies shares. How do i as ceo keep control of the company and voting rights if i maintain no shares?
This is how you could do it;
You instead have 2001 shares, and keep 1001 shares for youself/corp (as to keep 50% for yourself).
Edit: Cista beat me to it.
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Stealing Honest
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:51:00 -
[13]
Where does LLSE get its cut for operations? I know lots of questions, but someone has to ask them yea?
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:53:00 -
[14]
I am doing this as a community project. I can handle manual share transactions of 5-10 companies easily.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Cynoetra Sashinta
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:56:00 -
[15]
how will this be advertised, how do we see what shares are up so we can buy?
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.24 18:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cista2 on 24/07/2010 18:13:54
Originally by: Cynoetra Sashinta
how will this be advertised, how do we see what shares are up so we can buy?
Each company will have its own IPO thread, and LLSE will make one thread showcasing all the companies. That one will be similar to the old Stock Exchange tracker.
From that thread there will be links to Googledoc spreadsheets with the full sale history and all available shares of each. Primitive, but easily accessible. No login and all that.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Silver Drag0n
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Posted - 2010.07.24 21:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Silver Drag0n on 24/07/2010 21:29:13
Now, by "new blood" are you referring to those running the corps, or the people who invest in them?
I personally think this is a great idea for newcomers who are still learning and trying to plant their foot in the Market door, but I find myself concerned as to how they would be able to do so if a more established MD member steps in and buys up everything.
My question is who is this aimed at; the small corps or the young investors? Will I be able to buy even a share, or will someone else waltz in, lay down a couple billion, and buy out everything?
EDIT: Finally was able to load the Google doc. So clearly it would take 10 billionaires to do what I described (at least on the first day when prices were controlled). Somehow I'm not too comforted by that. 
Definitely going to keep an eye on MD for the release (assuming this happens). |
Svarty II
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.24 21:53:00 -
[18]
Haha, people still believe this rubbish? :) Even after last time? Oh I see.... I'll just shhh and go away. Good luck. |
cryojin
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.24 22:20:00 -
[19]
I really like this idea. Its basically what I wanted to achieve with the crowd sourced fund, but the biggest problem I was able to see was that there were too few viable investment opportunity's available.
The issue raised above regarding MD "elite" buying out the shares is a real one and the very reason I wanted to establish the crowd fund, so how will you prevent this from happening? Just one bond open at the moment has 125b isk in it, they could buy the exchange 12 times over.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.25 06:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Silver Drag0n
My question is who is this aimed at; the small corps or the young investors? Will I be able to buy even a share, or will someone else waltz in, lay down a couple billion, and buy out everything?
I must say, this wasn't an aspect I was worried about. (In fact, before I logged on I was planning to change "100 shares" to "200 shares" per person, but let's leave it at 100 now).
It is definitely for the young investors! I am thinking that a) most multi-billionaires will not want to spend time on investments as small as these, the same as the will not spend time on Planetary Interaction management. And b) the corps that will sell shares on LLSE will not have the reputation that Grendell has  so will not be trusted by those people.
But speculation is not necessarily bad. It will be good for the new corps if they get that interest, and as you have the same possibility to buy cheap shares as any rich person, it could be good for you too!
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
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Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2010.07.25 06:45:00 -
[21]
Its a simplistic answer...if you wish to retain control of your company and your IPO is 1000 shares @ 20,000 isk, you would simply buy 501 shares to retain control and limit how many shares any individual can purchase from you above and beyond the controling shares.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.25 07:02:00 -
[22]
Since yesterday I have had people evemailing me and convoing me about when they can start buying shares, and on the thread people worried about whether all the shares will be gone before they get any
It seems there is good interest in buying shares from small corps. This must be very encouraging for all you corp owners out there! I will now go ahead and start up the actual exchange thread that will track the share sales.
As a corp owner, all you have to do is start your own IPO thread as described here and send 1,000 shares to LLSE (Cista2), then you will be registered for trade.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.25 17:17:00 -
[23]
I have received the first actual reservation on 100 shares through email, even though the corp has not presented itself on MD yet (This made me realise that you cannot reserve shares without transferring isk, a detail which I have added to the stock exchange thread.)
But the investors are buzzing in anticipation out there, so let me just again encourage ceos of the small corps out there to jump in and register your corp on LLSE!
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Vasaczk
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Posted - 2010.07.26 00:07:00 -
[24]
Look fun, something I might get right on into as a newbie.
Though I'm looking at the supply side rather than demand side.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.26 06:16:00 -
[25]
Following various conversations I have had in the past few days, I have decided to allow the first issue of shares to have a slightly higher price. The corp can now choose between a share price of 20,000 - 100,000 isk, and so can get up to 100 mil isk at the launch.
This should make a launch attractive for a larger range of corps, while shares will still be quite low priced.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:20:00 -
[26]
A few of things I don't think is a good idea or will cause a problem.
1. Cista being the sole broker can cause problems. What if you are away or quit. What happens to the stock market?
2. Why can shares only be transferred via the exchange?
3. Not allowing buyback is a huge mistake. What if someone is usffering from burnout and doesn't want to run their IPO anymore. Their choice is to keep working or walk off. Should always allow buybacks so people can successfully close down a business.
4. Allowing a small amount of capital to be raised initially. If an IPO can launch by selling ALL its shares it should be allowed to. What is the company can only be successful by raising a larger chunk of cash, what value is your exchange to them.
You didn't get much input before launching this. In the summer people are often absent for a week or so, so ideas need more time to perculate and be analysed.
Good luck, but personally I think you are adding an air of legitimacy to all IPO's launched through your vehicle. This may cause a few isues as and when scams occur.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: cosmoray
1-5
Good points.
1. If this gets somewhat succesful I imagine more brokers could be hired, each broker handling differents corps. If I disappeared nothing much would be lost, as shares are usually with the shareholders, and everything is done manually.
2. People are not allowed to sell shares outside of LLSE and then sell them through LLSE. The problem would be that an evil corp owner could just print shares and sell them through alts.
3. Buyback was not originally lacking, it was opted out as the ideas were tossed around. Because the shares are issued at different prices a buyback option would be complicated. I also believe it lessens the scam potential, but that's a long discussion.
4. LLSE is for the little people, bigshots make lots of ipos anyway.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:18:00 -
[28]
More on Cosmo's point 3.
I changed the wording in the LLSE document now so it does not absolutely prohibit buybacks under all circumstances.
However, the particular goal of LLSE is having corps start small, with cheap shares, and build up to more expensive shares. It is a burden for the corp to pay the same dividends to all shares during this growth, but it would be suicidal to also have to offer universal buyback to all shares. Therefore buyback gurantee is not implied, and investors get their investment profit from the dividends alone.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.07.27 01:41:00 -
[29]
Would you be interested in managing an LLSE Mutual Fund in the Stock Exchange?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.07.27 07:58:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Would you be interested in managing an LLSE Mutual Fund in the Stock Exchange?
I will consider it if LLSE becomes succesful. The problem I recall with your stock exchange is that all values are kept with you, and you manage the payout of dividends. Whereas I aimed for a structure where values are in the wallet of the investors, and the Exchange is not involved in distribution of dividends.
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"Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund |
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