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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.12.20 12:30:00 -
[91]
Um, so why did GMs get involved ? I don't understand that part.. Not really any of their business when people scam each other imho.
Did he get exposed due to a gamemaster ?
I'm glad Fret has been vindicated.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.12.20 12:30:00 -
[92]
Um, so why did GMs get involved ? I don't understand that part.. Not really any of their business when people scam each other imho.
Did he get exposed due to a gamemaster ?
I'm glad Fret has been vindicated.
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Sakura Yoshida
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Posted - 2004.12.20 12:45:00 -
[93]
wow fret, man, i love you! :D
i just saw someone who seemed to need someone to help them out, and i'm very glad that i could help out, even if it was only in an emotional way, i hope you get back into your normal sleep schedule with no problems, it's hard for me to do it sometimes :P, as you know, i'm not an early riser ^^
seeya
Sakura Yoshida |
Sakura Yoshida
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Posted - 2004.12.20 12:45:00 -
[94]
wow fret, man, i love you! :D
i just saw someone who seemed to need someone to help them out, and i'm very glad that i could help out, even if it was only in an emotional way, i hope you get back into your normal sleep schedule with no problems, it's hard for me to do it sometimes :P, as you know, i'm not an early riser ^^
seeya
Sakura Yoshida |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:03:00 -
[95]
 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Um, so why did GMs get involved ? I don't understand that part.. Not really any of their business when people scam each other imho.
Did he get exposed due to a gamemaster ?
I'm glad Fret has been vindicated.
Character is an out-of-game resource.
You can't trade characters with the same ingame ease as ships or modules, they are not an item on the market.
They are an out of game resource which is on a different level alltogether.
That's my theory at least.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:03:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Um, so why did GMs get involved ? I don't understand that part.. Not really any of their business when people scam each other imho.
Did he get exposed due to a gamemaster ?
I'm glad Fret has been vindicated.
Character is an out-of-game resource.
You can't trade characters with the same ingame ease as ships or modules, they are not an item on the market.
They are an out of game resource which is on a different level alltogether.
That's my theory at least.
¼©¼
a history |
Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:04:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Basileus
Originally by: Fret
...I have been staying up xtra late, waking up xtra early for the past week just just to get on the comp over this issue. I am very glad to see it resolved...
And you think that if you take a game this seriously you don't have mental problems?
Well for me anything we do in this life, be it sports, work, online games, that what we do reflects upon who we are. For someone to claim im a scammer in the forums for me is the same as someone calling me the same in th real world.
That is just how i see things. And in a game i spend hours playing, my reputation is a reflection of who i really am outside the game world. Perhaps im crazy, but for me that is much better than beibg a scammer
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:04:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Basileus
Originally by: Fret
...I have been staying up xtra late, waking up xtra early for the past week just just to get on the comp over this issue. I am very glad to see it resolved...
And you think that if you take a game this seriously you don't have mental problems?
Well for me anything we do in this life, be it sports, work, online games, that what we do reflects upon who we are. For someone to claim im a scammer in the forums for me is the same as someone calling me the same in th real world.
That is just how i see things. And in a game i spend hours playing, my reputation is a reflection of who i really am outside the game world. Perhaps im crazy, but for me that is much better than beibg a scammer
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:04:00 -
[99]
Yes, it's really a OOG resource, and it costs OOG money to make the transfer.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:04:00 -
[100]
Yes, it's really a OOG resource, and it costs OOG money to make the transfer.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:09:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Um, so why did GMs get involved ? I don't understand that part.. Not really any of their business when people scam each other imho.
Did he get exposed due to a gamemaster ?
I'm glad Fret has been vindicated.
Character is an out-of-game resource.
You can't trade characters with the same ingame ease as ships or modules, they are not an item on the market.
They are an out of game resource which is on a different level alltogether.
That's my theory at least.
The GM's made it clear that one of the major issues that got them involved was the fact that i allowed TornSoul access to my account. That is extreamly illigal, also they got involved because this scam was so publicised it became disruptive to the community. Also the fact that a corporation was used as a middleman, this is also not allowed. Character selling itself is not illigal, just a "gray" area. I would post the entire convo i had with the GM, but f course i would never do so without exclusive permission.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.20 13:09:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Um, so why did GMs get involved ? I don't understand that part.. Not really any of their business when people scam each other imho.
Did he get exposed due to a gamemaster ?
I'm glad Fret has been vindicated.
Character is an out-of-game resource.
You can't trade characters with the same ingame ease as ships or modules, they are not an item on the market.
They are an out of game resource which is on a different level alltogether.
That's my theory at least.
The GM's made it clear that one of the major issues that got them involved was the fact that i allowed TornSoul access to my account. That is extreamly illigal, also they got involved because this scam was so publicised it became disruptive to the community. Also the fact that a corporation was used as a middleman, this is also not allowed. Character selling itself is not illigal, just a "gray" area. I would post the entire convo i had with the GM, but f course i would never do so without exclusive permission.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.12.20 14:27:00 -
[103]
Oops, forgot to use brain before posting again.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.12.20 14:27:00 -
[104]
Oops, forgot to use brain before posting again.
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Urfin
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Posted - 2004.12.20 15:07:00 -
[105]
Obligatory 'glad that Fret got vindicated' blah-blah.
Now something to contemplate on: in the not-so-long run (i.e. a month or 2) this is what will remain in the memory of the majority of people about this affair:
 Player1 wanted to buy a char from Player2, a member of BIG, for isk, and asked BIG to be the middleman.
Player2 happened to be a scammer.
The whole matter got resolved by BIG working together with the GMs.
BIG gave Player1 back the isk + extra cash for the trouble.
The scammer got kicked from BIG.
And they sca.. err lived on happily ever after.
Net image resulting: BIG is a corp made of imperfect, yet honourable and trustworthy people that keep their promises as a corp, even if individual members fail to do so. That is one positive image if I ever saw it. The problem is that, if we follow this logic, it seems that BIG is actually benefitting the most from this whole affair.
Not accusing anyone (I fail to see ANY hard evidence of anything, really, except that the GMs do not contradict the fact that the character Tion is involved in the act of scamming the character Fret) - merely noting fishy coincidences and suspiciously good use of the situation's PR potential :)
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Urfin
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Posted - 2004.12.20 15:07:00 -
[106]
Obligatory 'glad that Fret got vindicated' blah-blah.
Now something to contemplate on: in the not-so-long run (i.e. a month or 2) this is what will remain in the memory of the majority of people about this affair:
Player1 wanted to buy a char from Player2, a member of BIG, for isk, and asked BIG to be the middleman.
Player2 happened to be a scammer.
The whole matter got resolved by BIG working together with the GMs.
BIG gave Player1 back the isk + extra cash for the trouble.
The scammer got kicked from BIG.
And they sca.. err lived on happily ever after.
Net image resulting: BIG is a corp made of imperfect, yet honourable and trustworthy people that keep their promises as a corp, even if individual members fail to do so. That is one positive image if I ever saw it. The problem is that, if we follow this logic, it seems that BIG is actually benefitting the most from this whole affair.
Not accusing anyone (I fail to see ANY hard evidence of anything, really, except that the GMs do not contradict the fact that the character Tion is involved in the act of scamming the character Fret) - merely noting fishy coincidences and suspiciously good use of the situation's PR potential :)
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2004.12.20 15:54:00 -
[107]
I'm pretty sure the GM's also got involved because CCP couldn't have any controversy surrounding BIG and their lotteries 
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2004.12.20 15:54:00 -
[108]
I'm pretty sure the GM's also got involved because CCP couldn't have any controversy surrounding BIG and their lotteries
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:13:00 -
[109]
Hmmmm...
Just read through this thread am a bit shocked tbh
Why? Because Tion spent time in PIE too...
He was a nice guy. He came from BIG and never showed any inkling of a 'darkside' before he rejoined BIG.
I can understand why Tornsoul found it so hard to believe the word of a relative stranger opposed to a respectable corp mate he had known a long time.
As a former CEO myself I know that my first instinct would be to defend my corp mate.
I think Torn and BIG needs some kudos for this apology and ensuring that Fret was compensated for his stress.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:13:00 -
[110]
Hmmmm...
Just read through this thread am a bit shocked tbh
Why? Because Tion spent time in PIE too...
He was a nice guy. He came from BIG and never showed any inkling of a 'darkside' before he rejoined BIG.
I can understand why Tornsoul found it so hard to believe the word of a relative stranger opposed to a respectable corp mate he had known a long time.
As a former CEO myself I know that my first instinct would be to defend my corp mate.
I think Torn and BIG needs some kudos for this apology and ensuring that Fret was compensated for his stress.
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kieron
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:17:00 -
[111]
The GM team became involved in the issue when two threads on the topic reached almost 20 pages collectively in 2 days. The forums were used as an instrument of the scam and there is a cash transaction involved in a character transfer. The game staff involvement had nothing to do with the celebrity of the players or corporations. Even if the players involved were unknowns in the game, there still would have been the same level of game staff involvement.
Personally, I am glad to see this resolved and the truth made known. Now, let's move on to more important things in life, like playing EVE.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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kieron
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:17:00 -
[112]
The GM team became involved in the issue when two threads on the topic reached almost 20 pages collectively in 2 days. The forums were used as an instrument of the scam and there is a cash transaction involved in a character transfer. The game staff involvement had nothing to do with the celebrity of the players or corporations. Even if the players involved were unknowns in the game, there still would have been the same level of game staff involvement.
Personally, I am glad to see this resolved and the truth made known. Now, let's move on to more important things in life, like playing EVE.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:34:00 -
[113]
Respect to Tornsoul.
To all those who kick Tornsoul now please take from this example that there are smart people in this game who will call you on your bull**** when you are in a wrong too.
I have full confidence in BIG because Tornsoul demonstrated that he knows how to make things right even if he makes a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes but not everybody fesses up and not everybody makes reperations.
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:34:00 -
[114]
Respect to Tornsoul.
To all those who kick Tornsoul now please take from this example that there are smart people in this game who will call you on your bull**** when you are in a wrong too.
I have full confidence in BIG because Tornsoul demonstrated that he knows how to make things right even if he makes a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes but not everybody fesses up and not everybody makes reperations.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:38:00 -
[115]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 20/12/2004 16:38:14
Originally by: kieron
The GM team became involved in the issue when two threads on the topic reached almost 20 pages collectively in 2 days. The forums were used as an instrument of the scam and there is a cash transaction involved in a character transfer.
I would like a clarification. Does this mean that scamming with fake character transfers is now no longer acceptable, and the GMs will be investigating all character transfers for isk to prevent scamming?
Because to be perfectly honest, no cash transaction was involved because no character was ever transfered, it was simply a case of an individual making a promise in exchange for isk, and then not following through. Does this mean that if I can get ~20 pages complaining about purchasing a shuttle for 100m that the GMs will investigate? Where is the new line being drawn?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:38:00 -
[116]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 20/12/2004 16:38:14
Originally by: kieron
The GM team became involved in the issue when two threads on the topic reached almost 20 pages collectively in 2 days. The forums were used as an instrument of the scam and there is a cash transaction involved in a character transfer.
I would like a clarification. Does this mean that scamming with fake character transfers is now no longer acceptable, and the GMs will be investigating all character transfers for isk to prevent scamming?
Because to be perfectly honest, no cash transaction was involved because no character was ever transfered, it was simply a case of an individual making a promise in exchange for isk, and then not following through. Does this mean that if I can get ~20 pages complaining about purchasing a shuttle for 100m that the GMs will investigate? Where is the new line being drawn?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:39:00 -
[117]
Yes Tornsoul shows he has guts and lotsa of it for admitting he was wrong.
This is not a hijack
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:39:00 -
[118]
Yes Tornsoul shows he has guts and lotsa of it for admitting he was wrong.
This is not a hijack
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:40:00 -
[119]
Well I looked at that screenshot and said I didn't find any problem with it except the compression. I was more likely to believe BIG as I'd done business with them (esp Gavin) and have been always treated honorably. I'm happy to see BIG make the right move here and clear an innocent rather then attempt to save its own reputation by sweeping it under the carpet. That in my eyes is the sign of the "real deal" and a trustworthy corp.
I look forward to doing more business with BIG in the future. If nothing else coming clean like this has enhanced their reputation imo.
As for Fret I apologize for being critical and not waiting for all the facts. I can only imagine the horror of being called a liar by everyone and having this fake case presented when you knew it was false. I equate it to those people who spend years in prison then are cleared by DNA. I'm glad you keep fighting for the truth to come out.
I also thank CCP and the GM's for getting involved. As this was an out of game transaction their involvment was proper. Now I only wish there was a way to track the money and identities of ingame scammers as well (to their mains). Maybe someday.
Archbishop
PIE Corporation
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:40:00 -
[120]
Well I looked at that screenshot and said I didn't find any problem with it except the compression. I was more likely to believe BIG as I'd done business with them (esp Gavin) and have been always treated honorably. I'm happy to see BIG make the right move here and clear an innocent rather then attempt to save its own reputation by sweeping it under the carpet. That in my eyes is the sign of the "real deal" and a trustworthy corp.
I look forward to doing more business with BIG in the future. If nothing else coming clean like this has enhanced their reputation imo.
As for Fret I apologize for being critical and not waiting for all the facts. I can only imagine the horror of being called a liar by everyone and having this fake case presented when you knew it was false. I equate it to those people who spend years in prison then are cleared by DNA. I'm glad you keep fighting for the truth to come out.
I also thank CCP and the GM's for getting involved. As this was an out of game transaction their involvment was proper. Now I only wish there was a way to track the money and identities of ingame scammers as well (to their mains). Maybe someday.
Archbishop
PIE Corporation
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
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