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Yakumo Smith
Gallente
No End To Infinity
Fleetingly Finite
   |
Posted - 2010.07.25 11:53:00 -
[1]
Eve has the potential to be around for a very long time.
So what happens to your account should you die?
The EULA says you can't transfer it (aka little Johnny inherits it) unless you go down the route of character trasfers and pay the fee. But equally if someone is dead, it would mean the non account holder would be transfering the characters and that would then fall into a "hacked account" scenario.
So do we have to accept that when you die, your account dies with you?
Can anyone come up with potential solutions? It would be nice if CCP had a plan in place for a scenario like this, but I doubbt it.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.25 11:58:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Yakumo Smith
Eve has the potential to be around for a very long time.
So what happens to your account should you die?
The EULA says you can't transfer it (aka little Johnny inherits it) unless you go down the route of character trasfers and pay the fee. But equally if someone is dead, it would mean the non account holder would be transfering the characters and that would then fall into a "hacked account" scenario.
So do we have to accept that when you die, your account dies with you?
Can anyone come up with potential solutions? It would be nice if CCP had a plan in place for a scenario like this, but I doubbt it.
...dont die ?
==========================
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
========================== |
Brannor McThife
Caldari
Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:00:00 -
[3]
Planning to put a clause in your will for little Jimmy to get your trillions of Iskies?
-G
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:02:00 -
[4]
If you die, due to extremely long range sensors your capsuleer collapses dead and all clones are eaten by mutant goldfish.
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Hemp Invader
EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:04:00 -
[5]
Yakumo Jr. will be there to take care of your planets...oh wait
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Winters Chill
Amarr
Shadow Legion.
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:06:00 -
[6]
The authorities frown on people murdering other people for their computer game characters Yakumo...
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente
No End To Infinity
Fleetingly Finite
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Yakumo Smith on 25/07/2010 12:09:39
I hope on hanging around for another 60 years or so :) However, accidents happen and EvE does have a good percentage of more "mature" gamers than a lot of other MMO's out there.
Eve is one of the trailblazers of MMO's, often setting new standards and being the first to break new boundaries, I could quite see it being online long enough that it spans 2 generations (as in real live generations) and once that happens the prospect of RL death would likely beomce more of an issue.
Edited to add :- gah my "accidents happen" now sounds really suspicions because of the poster above.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:12:00 -
[8]
Why would you care if you're dead?
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dave fromheadoffice
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: dave fromheadoffice on 25/07/2010 12:18:29
well you would think that once you die your account would not be able to be played, yet i have seen in the past where someone has posted about someone they know in real life dying and then to find they have sold off there friends chars and ccp are more then happy to let it go
Linkage
that guy was petitioned, ccp did nothing
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente
No End To Infinity
Fleetingly Finite
|
Posted - 2010.07.25 12:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Drykor
Why would you care if you're dead?
It's called getting your afairs in order.
For most other MMO's, you can reach the top of the game stat wise with just a few months of effort. In EvE (at the moment) TIME is the restricting factor. Just like most parents want what is best for their kids, I'd rather they own a house rather than rent one and for Eve, i'd rather they owned a 300M SP character rather than a 50M one.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Zeredek
Gallente
Vanguard Venture
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:29:00 -
[11]
Would someone trying to give away a video game character in his will qualify as "of sound mind and body"?
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith
Eve has the potential to be around for a very long time.
So what happens to your account should you die?
The EULA says you can't transfer it (aka little Johnny inherits it) unless you go down the route of character trasfers and pay the fee. But equally if someone is dead, it would mean the non account holder would be transfering the characters and that would then fall into a "hacked account" scenario.
So do we have to accept that when you die, your account dies with you?
Can anyone come up with potential solutions? It would be nice if CCP had a plan in place for a scenario like this, but I doubbt it.
In the tragic event of a player passing away, the account(s) would simply expire. I don't think CCP anticipated such scenarios.
DB | Map
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zeredek
Would someone trying to give away a video game character in his will qualify as "of sound mind and body"?
What would be the problem with that. People spend time on lots of things that aren't technically necessary. Big cars, internet spaceships, where's the difference? It's fun and if you want somebody else to have it once you're gone, why the hell not?
-
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Vesper Gunn
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:57:00 -
[14]
Make sure you update your clone before you die? ;-)
It seems a bit obvious that the account would just go inactive forever more like 1000's of other accounts. Your account belongs to CCP in any case. You should try not dwell on such things.
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:58:00 -
[15]
The statistics say an EVE account owner dies about once a day.
In addition to inheritance, there is also the idea of doing right by people/friends in EVE. A subset of the players would actually prefer that if something unfortunate (including serious accidents, comas as well as death) happened, that friends they made a commitment to do not get screwed (e.g. loans, 3rd party holders, etc) and would rather friends of several years remember them as "hit by a bus" than "another scammer why do I bother" Other players do not care and tbh some aren't very motivated to be honest while still alive.
I think this is another reason why unofficial (without CCP) player initiatives on things like banks and collateral will not work.
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el Sabor
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:59:00 -
[16]
Write a macro to keep playing for you?
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente
No End To Infinity
Fleetingly Finite
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Posted - 2010.07.25 13:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vesper Gunn
Make sure you update your clone before you die? ;-)
It seems a bit obvious that the account would just go inactive forever more like 1000's of other accounts. Your account belongs to CCP in any case. You should try not dwell on such things.
Yes the account does belong to CCP. But if 10min prior to dropping dead I transfer all characters to another account it's allowed. 1 second after though and it's a massive grey area.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Sazkyen
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.25 13:01:00 -
[18]
I leave my Caldari Navy Raven to my beloved Jane, God bless her, along with a Pithum X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier.
My Cerberus BPO shall go to my son, Jack, on the condition he achieves above 70% at school.
-SIG-
Ship comparison |
Terrigal
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Posted - 2010.07.25 13:08:00 -
[19]
I have thought the exact same thing though not ancient yet im getting there, I'm 50 soon hope to play eve for many years yet but after say another 10 years i do die well I guess i'll have to leave detailed instructions in my will and part of these instructions will be to pass on my accounts to one or two people ive become friends with in the last few years. I've been trying to get my son into eve but he's a FPS gamer and doesnt like this at all even though ive offered to pay for an account.
BTW CCP you will have one Dust player ill pay for my son It may be the only way to get into the real game of internet spaceships. 
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.25 14:54:00 -
[20]
Someone with power of attorney and/or the executor of the will, should be able to authorize payments, transfer characters, etc. on behalf of the deceased.. |
Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:00:00 -
[21]
Just another example of where real life will trump a meaningless clause in a EULA.
You may not own the stuff your account contains, but the ownership of the account itself is pretty clear.
When you die everything that belongs to you passes to your executer who then passes it onto the final recipient. Anyone who tries to interfere with this process can be brought before a judge, who has the power to deprive them of their liberty.
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Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:09:00 -
[22]
This is quite important to me.
Clearly, when I die the thing that is most important to me, and must be handled with utmost speed! is ensuring that my 50M SP character is passed on to a suitable relative. I mean, what if he missed out on training time because of legal wranglings? This isn't like WoW where the new owner could just grind some levels, we're talking about real time and money going to waste.
For this reason we could use clarification on this. Stuff all my other inheritance, my character must outlive me!
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minerboob
Gallente
LG Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:10:00 -
[23]
Your take on this CCP?
Can we add a will feature? 
Quote:
Radioactive cats have 18 half lives
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hari Markkus
Just another example of where real life will trump a meaningless clause in a EULA.
You may not own the stuff your account contains, but the ownership of the account itself is pretty clear.
When you die everything that belongs to you passes to your executer who then passes it onto the final recipient. Anyone who tries to interfere with this process can be brought before a judge, who has the power to deprive them of their liberty.
But, you don't own an account.
An account is simply a contract between you and CCP, for CCP to provide service to you. In the event of your death, you cease to exist, therefore CCP have completely fullfilled their contract regarding the service you recieve.
No executor can come along and start playing on your behalf. The only thing to clear up is whether you owe CCP any money (unlikely since the game is paid for in advance), or if CCP owe you some sort of refund (for whatever reason, pretty unlikely), which would go to your estate.
----
I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
JC Anderson
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 25/07/2010 15:26:26
Originally by: Terrigal
I have thought the exact same thing though not ancient yet im getting there, I'm 50 soon hope to play eve for many years yet but after say another 10 years i do die well I guess i'll have to leave detailed instructions in my will and part of these instructions will be to pass on my accounts to one or two people ive become friends with in the last few years. I've been trying to get my son into eve but he's a FPS gamer and doesnt like this at all even though ive offered to pay for an account.
BTW CCP you will have one Dust player ill pay for my son It may be the only way to get into the real game of internet spaceships.
Bah you have awhile to go. I know somebody in their mid 70's that plays Eve and they will likely be around for quite some time.
On an off note that very same individual owns a jeweler and custom made engagement rings for a friend of mine in exchange for a couple dreads with fittings.
Who says Eve can't get you anything meaningful in the real world? ;)
And back on topic,
The EULA makes it pretty clear that you do not own your account or characters. So I'm not so sure it could be included as property owned in terms of a will when it comes right down to it. Wouldn't it be more considered as something you are 'renting' from CCP?
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:25:00 -
[26]
My username and pass are in my will - the executor has all my online identities and mailboxes etc. with instructions to notify people in the event of my death.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hainnz
Someone with power of attorney and/or the executor of the will, should be able to authorize payments, transfer characters, etc. on behalf of the deceased..
This. Or setup a trust to fund your account in perpetuity and to pay someone to login to set your training. Having that person post to the forums that you're dead but still training would probably cost extra.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2010.07.25 15:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Marchocias
But, you don't own an account.
ok, the account gives you some rights (mainly to play the game). Rights can be inherited.
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.07.25 16:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hari Markkus
Originally by: Marchocias
But, you don't own an account.
ok, the account gives you some rights (mainly to play the game). Rights can be inherited.
The only right they grant you is the right to play the game. You have NO rights regarding any of the content of the game... that is all owned by CCP. Its their playground, and their toys... you just pay for the right to play with them.
However, lets say there is 30 days of gametime left on the dead guys account, that could possibly be expected to be creditted to the inheritors own account, but he'd be liable for his countries inheritance taxation regarding the monetary value of that game time.
Essentially its just meaningless to talk about accounts being inherited. If you REALLY care about it, then tell some executor about the account names and passwords, if you trust them, and get them to do the transfer when you die... and dont tell CCP about it... it'll probably be fine.
Just don't expect any legal situation that arises to work out in your favour, beacause you basically have no rights here.
----
I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
MaxxOmega
Caldari
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2010.07.25 16:20:00 -
[30]
My sex life died years ago. I left my leather thongs to a good friend. AFTER I washed them of course...
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Simply Human
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Posted - 2010.07.25 16:51:00 -
[31]
Technically, you make a petition and ask for the account to be put in your name. I can't see why they wouldn't want you to keep paying for it.
Realistically, just keep using the account. They more than likely won't notice or care. Tell any corp/alliance members the character is being sold though, just to explain the change of personality. |
Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2010.07.25 17:22:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Marchocias
This parallels bank accounts - you dont inherit the account, you inherit the money in the account.
I would say it was more like a lease than a bank account.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.25 18:21:00 -
[33]
I know from personal experience that in the UK, a properly appointed executor is legally considered to be that person for the purposes of agreements & contracts etc, and subject to what is called beneficial rights and obligations of the decease person. I suspect similar probate laws exist in a lot of countries. If it was in the will I suspect that for the estate to be settled the executor could legal use the account, but would need to transfer the character to a new account because a simple beneficiary could not does not have those same rights.
However IANAL.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.25 19:25:00 -
[34]
Actually,you don't have to be iin your 70's to start worrying about death as a friend of mine has a fairly large brain tumor and he's only 35 years old,and the future for him is pretty much an unknown as the knowledge for this type of tumor is fairly limited,even though doctors have known about this type for 70 years.
For those wondering,it's slightly larger than a golf ball and it's been slowly growing inside his head for years without ever having any symptoms at all,so it's one of those times when real life kicks one in the nuts with no warning at all....Never take anything for granted folks.
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Zestril
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Posted - 2010.07.25 19:43:00 -
[35]
If you RL die unexpectedly teh first thing you should worry about is having an executor make a "Why I'm quitting EvE" poast. (now in new wall-of-text style)
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Liam Fremen
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.25 19:48:00 -
[36]
I'll make someone sell my Erebus on ebay and pay my funeral with the money he get.
--
Systematic-Chaos, Executor |
Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.25 19:57:00 -
[37]
Could we keep it simple please ? You are running on an assumption that is invalid from the start.
Like someone earlyer mentioned; it's more like a lease. Would you please ask yourself what happens to your mobile phone contract or house lease when you die?
You can not will a contract to a third party. And you dont ****ing own pixels either.
==========================
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
========================== |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.25 21:06:00 -
[38]
EVE is a service, just like phone or electricity service. When you pass away, your executor could take over payments and transfer your character to another account before shutting it down permanently (assuming provisions exist in the will and your survivors cared one whit about your EVE account, which is highly unlikely) or (much more likely) stop payments instantly.
I doubt CCP would allow a transfer of the actual account to a new owner, but they do allow transfers of account assets (including characters) -- something someone with power of attorney/executor ship of a will could (almost surely) do on your behalf. |
000Hunter000
Gallente
Industrial Exploits
Massive Intergalactic Love Klub
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Posted - 2010.07.25 21:22:00 -
[39]
My main char is me... when i die, my char dies with me... It IS that simple tbh.
________________________________________________
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
Hell's Librarians
Darkmatter Initiative
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Posted - 2010.07.25 22:05:00 -
[40]
What if I'm Ted Williams and need someone to maintain my skill training until science finds a cure for my ailment and unfreezes me? Will a Power of Attorney get me through that rough patch? Seriously.
KB
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.07.25 22:42:00 -
[41]
My Solution:
Your character becomes a NPC. You make a will in game, designating one of your ships and and a NPC corp which the character has a high standing with to join after your death. You win as a part of you will go on and the living players win by having much better NPCs to fight against.
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.25 22:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Shin Dari
My Solution:
Your character becomes a NPC. You make a will in game, designating one of your ships and and a NPC corp which the character has a high standing with to join after your death. You win as a part of you will go on and the living players win by having much better NPCs to fight against.
Sounds like nice stuff ... whatcha smoking ?
==========================
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
========================== |
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:32:00 -
[43]
This is actually somewhat relevant to me.
_
Got Item? | EVE API? | Cache? |
Verus Noan
104TH RANGERS RESERVE FORCES COMMAND
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:52:00 -
[44]
Leave log-in information in suitable location, then when you croak interested parties have the right information and can change it as necessary. It would only take one threat of a lawsuit to make CCP fly straight.
Then again, who wants to use your dead partner/wife/uncle's account.
Creepy
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Lanu
0utbreak
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Entity
This is actually somewhat relevant to me.
Can I have your stuff?
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:55:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lanu
Originally by: Entity
This is actually somewhat relevant to me.
Can I have your stuff?
==========================
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
========================== |
Veebring Greetings
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Posted - 2010.07.26 02:48:00 -
[47]
Well lets say I'm already dead and I left an AI porgram to serve as my executor, will it be considered a bot by CCP?
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.26 03:03:00 -
[48]
Eve is a little behind on Digital Legacy Management.
Facebook has clear policies, I believe WoW does as well.
Many companies are writing this into their rules and proceedures.
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Terrigal
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Posted - 2010.07.26 09:26:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Terrigal on 26/07/2010 09:30:40
Tos & Eula's will soon be tested in court in Germany by the German Government states often these agreements are outside of countries laws. I believe that it'll be proved that Tos's and Eula's can not stand outside of individual countires laws and hence these agreements after the ruling is handed down wont be worth the page their posted on and many other countries will see this as a precedent and follow suit.
See "German Government takes Facebook & Google to court" Google it haha
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BIZZAROSTORMY
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Posted - 2010.07.26 10:07:00 -
[50]
And what about haunting scenarios?
Do CCP have a procedure for ghost ships or spectral buy orders?
Issue will become doubly difficult for world of Darkness.
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Peter XZ
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith
Eve has the potential to be around for a very long time.
So what happens to your account should you die?
The EULA says you can't transfer it (aka little Johnny inherits it) unless you go down the route of character trasfers and pay the fee. But equally if someone is dead, it would mean the non account holder would be transfering the characters and that would then fall into a "hacked account" scenario.
So do we have to accept that when you die, your account dies with you?
Can anyone come up with potential solutions? It would be nice if CCP had a plan in place for a scenario like this, but I doubbt it.
Don't worry, Eve will only be around till 12am, December 21st, 2012, and then the Universe will explode and you'll have nothing to worry about (Unless you don't make it through the Pearly Gates ofcourse  )
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Chesty McJubblies
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:23:00 -
[52]
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:27:00 -
[53]
IRL Death is ccp's long-term isk sink.
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: 000Hunter000
My main char is me... when i die, my char dies with me... It IS that simple tbh.
Agreed. Its just, well, you'd want to your Eve buddies to know you had actually died and not just intentionally buggered off. No?
If that means a R.I.P. forum full of death notices like I have to tolerate on the biker forums I go on however .. Blurghhh. 
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:55:00 -
[55]
Personally I'd ask the executor of my will to login as me and transfer the character accordingly.
The only thing CCP could do is act on account sharing, but that would be hard to prove as the Executor of the will would also have access to my inbox. The issue of multiple IP's is moot as only the Executor would be logging in...
*shrug*
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.07.26 12:20:00 -
[56]
i dont think a char should continue to be played and to that extent the account - however in the event of my demise i would like to contract all my massivly multiplayer online role play game assets to somone hopfully in short ime my son/daughter so IF they create an account they can access it.
that be cool, but that char itself should not be played. that'd be really weird seeing them only after you know they have passed in rl.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2010.07.26 16:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Peter XZ
Don't worry, Eve will only be around till 12am, December 21st, 2012, and then the Universe will explode and you'll have nothing to worry about (Unless you don't make it through the Pearly Gates ofcourse )
all that is going to happen in 2012 is the mayan calendar starts a new cycle. the whole end of the world thing is hype and malarkey.
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