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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.07.26 14:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Denuo Secus on 26/07/2010 14:04:10
Hi,
when I think of frig PvP it's always about short range. I never tried long range combat in frigs yet. So I've some questions to experienced PvPers who did this already.
On paper (and EFT) long range just seems subpar:
- lower damage
- bad tracking
- hefty fitting requirements -> low tier guns -> low damage and not that better range (ACs vs arty -> falloff)
Then tactical wise:
- I have to keep range so I get no "cover" under my opponents guns
- bad tracking means I have no defence against drones
- the MWD is needed more often to keep distance (shortrange: MWD for approach only)
But how is it in real combat? What are the important points? Obviously both variants, short range and long range, excel in distinct tactical situations. My question is: what are these situations? What is more flexible and what is more niche?
I have some ideas about that. Plz correct me if I'm wrong:
Short range:
- more flexible
- solo able against equal and bigger targets
Long range:
- niche in terms of anti frig tactics (kiting)
- nice against bigger targets in "wolf packs"
I see the Mimi frigs and ASs as a good example: AC vs arty Rifter, Wolf and Jaguar. But the rail vs blaster Hapry comes to mind as well.
Thanks for any advice.
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Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> *
A --------> *
V --------> *
E -------> *
N ---------> *
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Kiyoko Fume
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Posted - 2010.07.26 14:53:00 -
[2]
if u want longrange the best option i think is the ishkur cause it can attack with 100 dps at a range of 70km and start to deal damage with rails at around 30km (depends on ammo)while having no fitting issues, cause drones dont require fitting so u can focus on other things like speed or ehp.
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Altaen
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:41:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Altaen on 26/07/2010 21:41:39
If you are talking in terms of using the longe range weapon variant, like rails/artillery, I think you are out of luck, unless you look to using a Destroyer.
However, if you just are looking for a style of flight that doesn't involve orbiting at your optimal, overheating your guns and crossing your fingers...then falloff fighting is for you!
I have been flying frigates that are designed to engage outside of scram/web range for awhile, and I must say it is my favorite way to fly.
I will use 200mm ACs and whatever combination of TEs and Ambits to make sure that my first falloff is around 16km.
This is quite easy to do in a Dramiel, but I know you can make it work with Interceptors, AFs and the Rifter.
I don't think non-Minmatar vessels are going to have much luck making their short-range weapons effective outside of web/scram range, but I am speaking purely from the Minmatar perspective, and just don't know enough about other ships to say.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:50:00 -
[4]
"Range" is relative to the class of ships.
With a frigate, you're never going to get 100km to 150km+ range the same way Battleships can.
_______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Gott1
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:13:00 -
[5]
Torp bomber 500+ dps at ranges up to 132km 122 or so with out using T2 rigs/best implants tho 
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Non-Aligned Movement Biologic License Application
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Posted - 2010.07.27 03:21:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Gott1
Torp bomber 500+ dps at ranges up to 132km 122 or so with out using T2 rigs/best implants tho
poor people and their named launchers. i wouldnt use a bomber without t2.
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Hola, esta forum es ingles solamente.
This forum is English only. Welcome to my lock. Now please, zip your pants. I don't need a show.
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Ziley
Dychotomy
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Posted - 2010.07.27 04:12:00 -
[7]
artillery wolf is uber. seriously, try it
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superteds
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Posted - 2010.07.27 04:26:00 -
[8]
Edited by: superteds on 27/07/2010 04:27:16
Originally by: ShahFluffers
"Range" is relative to the class of ships.
With a frigate, you're never going to get 100km to 150km+ range the same way Battleships can.
Just to prove it's do-able...if slightly pointless;
[Harpy, Mini-Rokh]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Invulnerability Field II
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[empty high slot]
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Ionic Field Projector I
69dps @ 103+12.
lol
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Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
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Posted - 2010.07.27 07:31:00 -
[9]
hi denuo, there are 3 ranges for frigates not just 2. you get short in-your-face ranges eg. neutron turrets with antimatter, or slow boats like the classic bleeder punisher. you get long range kiting setups eg. crow/kestrel. then you also have edge-of-warp-scramble setups eg. autocannon rifter with barrage ammo, or rail merlin/tristan. the edge-of-scram setups try to force frigate opponents to fight in falloff to mitigate incoming damage, whilst controlling range.
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Jason filigree
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Posted - 2010.07.27 09:31:00 -
[10]
Im extrapolating a bit here but I doubt you would get many kills with a solo long range frigate.
If you have longer range than your oponant, and the speed to stay at you preferred range, your opponent canĘt hit you and you will win. But it will quickly become obvious to the target that this is the case so he will simply warp away from a fight he cant win.
If you want to get kills rather than just driving people away you need 1 of 3 things.
The burst damage to kill your target before he can warp away.
Some form of warp prevention
To make your opponent believe he can beet you until its too late.
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Deerin
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Posted - 2010.07.27 11:28:00 -
[11]
...or you can get a harpy/cormorant and snipe up to 100km! Now that's what I call long range frig!.
For 20k range combat you need to be able to dictate range on opponent. That means you need to be faster, stay faster and have some backup strategies when enemy catches up with you. The most common answer to this dilemma is Dual-Prop'ing.
A form of shield tank is also nice because armor tank usually slows you down.
Once you dictate range and ensure your longer reach than enemy, you'll have good chances with getting the kill.
You have to chose your opponents very carefully. Since you'll be operating with MWD on most of time your signature will be quite large. Medium guns like autocannons will be able to track you. Most of the time if your opponent has a weapon system that can hit you, you'll need to turn tail and run.
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.27 11:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: superteds
Edited by: superteds on 27/07/2010 04:27:16
Originally by: ShahFluffers
"Range" is relative to the class of ships.
With a frigate, you're never going to get 100km to 150km+ range the same way Battleships can.
Just to prove it's do-able...if slightly pointless;
[Harpy, Mini-Rokh]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Invulnerability Field II
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[empty high slot]
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Ionic Field Projector I
69dps @ 103+12.
lol
Actually if you know how to use it, it's quite a good fit (I personally run a 2 sebo one for instalocking... Less tank but more flexibility). 69 dps is by no means stellar, but in truth you will hardly be fighting at full range, if not for the giggles or to avoid enemy fire. 118 dps at 30 km on the other hand isn't exactly laughable.
The point though still stands: NOT for solo.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.07.27 14:03:00 -
[13]
For solo the problem is you need stay in point range so 24km. At that range you have no way to dictate range except your own speed so only fast ceptor can do it (like crusader). Good pilot will break your orbit and get you anyway so better to fly short range fit. It just depends who you fight really. I remember some guys in Syndicate always using ishkur for tackle with his mate in a rail "sniper" harpy which was pretty nasty for a solo frigate to encounter..but if it was vs 2x close range frigate you can pop them easy. I never lost a sabre to any LR frigate hull, I have lost a couple to good blaster taranis pilots though.
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