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Feature adjustment : Corpmates being allowed to attack each other

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Zanzbar	Posted - 2010.07.28 23:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Xereyn I think this video statement from the CCP development and GM team might be helpful for you at this time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q beat you to it, check above
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.29 00:32:00 - [32] since you didnt seem to get it the first time heres a repost of some sage advice from your other whine thread. Credit to Xereyn Protip: No-one feels threatened by a mission-runner. No-one is infiltrating your small-time corp because they care, they're doing it because you're an easy mark. Protip 2: This kind of thread does very little but advertise what an easy mark you are to the EVE community at large. Protip 3: If you want to be able to have "complete safety" while being undocked, EVE is not for you. There is no PVE server. There is no newbie zone. It's Contested Territory across the map and that scrub in your guild won't just pull aggro and wipe the group - he can backstab you without dropping a duel flag first. And nobody's going to back you up on this one because no-one else has a problem with corp aggression mechanics, because the problem here is you, not the game. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php
Doomfist	Posted - 2010.07.29 01:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Doomfist on 29/07/2010 01:24:22 Edited by: Doomfist on 29/07/2010 01:23:05 I have said all I need to say .....and I dont care how little or how much you like what I have to say as I believe in what im talking about im my own support group I Know whats right and wrong and why its right and wrong I dont need your support or acceptance If you wanna cling to the its been this way for a long time so it aint going away I would suggest you watch the Star Trek before the next generation stuff if you need training into not being the lemming that most of you are Just cause something exists for years (see british navy power and empire)and measure up that what used to be FACT of yesterday to what exists now and you will know that things do indeed change .....will this game grow to WOWs numbers (11 million) or enjoy a general decline of 65,000 plus to what half that in about a YEAR ? Face it EVE is indeed shrinking in size wanna pretend that this attack your own corp mate with NO risk is NOT part of that problem enjoy yourself while rome burns while you eat your hand fed grapes idiots
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.07.29 03:59:00 - [34] Three things Protip 1: Cry more Protip 2: Deinstall Protip 3: Play WoW It's what i like to call internal security. That is what corpies are for. You get jumped by a spy, you got corpies to get your back. Don't cry to change the game cause you fail at it miserably. Tell you what, for a nominal fee I'll join your corp and watch your back while you mission.
chopper14	Posted - 2010.07.29 05:19:00 - [35] So this one time. I left my Corp to wreak havoc on our enemies as a spy told them they voted me out and I wanted payback etc.. I just happened to be at my buddies house he was one of our new miners. One of my admirals was screwing with him with his New navy comet tackling his moa for thirty minutes strait. after he finally let him go we refit for anti intercept and went back he did it again so my buddy took him to hull. As we had a very strict you break it you buy it policy we didn't blow him up. He asked for a rematch still not realizing I was watching the whole thing. We drunkenly agreed only this time we tried to take him with a badger mk1 he won and pretended to be afl as he blew my friend who was new to eve's badger to bits, then came back on ranting about never taking his expensive frig to hull again. I asked my buddy if I could have a try on his computer since I was there drinking anyway then I gave my typical "lol ok ok"and asked for a friendly rematch with the Moa again. Still pretending to be my mining buddy. When he warped in I took him to hull, then to pod, then played pod soccer for a bit as I checked that my buddy really felt he deserved to die for breaking our rules he responded thumbs down and my admiral got podded. My admiral ranted and raved throwing my name around a bit and how he was gonna get him booted and griefed etc. that's when I let him know who really killed him and why and my entire Corp got the message. I havnt seen that account active since and as a CEO I have to say I wouldn't change a thing. Chopps. [ 418 ] for life.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.29 10:33:00 - [36] Edited by: Darek Castigatus on 29/07/2010 10:34:38 Originally by: Doomfist Edited by: Doomfist on 29/07/2010 01:24:22 Edited by: Doomfist on 29/07/2010 01:23:05 I have said all I need to say .....and I dont care how little or how much you like what I have to say as I believe in what im talking about im my own support group I Know whats right and wrong and why its right and wrong I dont need your support or acceptance If you wanna cling to the its been this way for a long time so it aint going away I would suggest you watch the Star Trek before the next generation stuff if you need training into not being the lemming that most of you are Just cause something exists for years (see british navy power and empire)and measure up that what used to be FACT of yesterday to what exists now and you will know that things do indeed change .....will this game grow to WOWs numbers (11 million) or enjoy a general decline of 65,000 plus to what half that in about a YEAR ? Face it EVE is indeed shrinking in size wanna pretend that this attack your own corp mate with NO risk is NOT part of that problem enjoy yourself while rome burns while you eat your hand fed grapes idiots So you're arrogant and self obsessed as well as ignorant, congratulations on failing even more. I also love the fresh-from-your-arse observations on server populations, shame 7 years of continuous subscriber increases and the fact the PCU has been broken multiple times since the start of 2009 alone kinda leaves you looking a bit silly. You can claim eve is dying all you want but the numbers just dont back you up. The reasons the mechanic works as is are simple 1. As people have already explained it allows corpmates to test out fits without having to venture into low security space or using some sort of setup to bypass agression mechanics, which can be prone to abuse or accident. 2. It gives more of an incentive for corporations to run proper background checks on new pilots and encourages corps to keep an eye on them until they earn their trust. (while I'll accept that you ran a background check as you said you did you pretty much did nothing to check on your new member once they were in) 3. It forces those who decide to infiltrate a corporation to take into account the fact that as long as they are in the corp they can be freely attacked by any of its members with no penalty. While it does make it possible for them to make this kind of attack in the first place, assuming they use the same attack strategy as you described, they also have to bear in mind what it means for the victim. If corp members are in system when an infiltrator decides to make his attack it allows them to freely assist the victim without having to worry about gaining aggresion first or about making a mistake and getting CONCORDed. If corp members can catch the infiltrator before he can dock they can freely destroy him again without worrying about CONCORD or agression. The fact that you accomplished none of these things doesnt mean the mechanic is broken, it simply means you either got hit by a competant infiltrator who timed his attack well and had a good exit strategy that you failed to counter or that you're an utter incompetant who randomly recruits people, gives them no oversight then acts all indignant when he gets inevitably betrayed. Ill let the people decide on that one. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php
SemiCharmed Clans of the Sanctums	Posted - 2010.07.29 10:55:00 - [37] I remember along time ago a player corporation was in control of that aggression mechanic with a flick of a switch. Then CCP Removed that option, and it was awesome. If you don't trust the Corporation your in, then leave. If you don't trust some members within your corporation, then kill them first. -------------------------------------------- Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires.
Zanzbar	Posted - 2010.07.29 12:25:00 - [38] Try not to take what people are saying too personal as you seem to be geting a bit defensive. Understand that we have seen tons of treads like yours with people complaining about some game feature they feel is unfair and after a while many of us feel like were bashing our heads against the wall. Also understand that even though it may be masked by hostility there is actualy a lot of genuinely helpful advice in many of the replies here. Understand that eve is a game where you don't trust anyone untill they have earned that trust, and if you find it too much of a burden then maybe your not ready to lead a corp quite yet. As a side note to make your background checks more in depth try a few things 1. Check their KB stats on battleclinic for kills againt corpmates. 2. Search for their character name on google, you may find a thread waning of thembeing a thheif or corp killer. 3. Consider maybe requesting api keys to check if they have alts, some members may have a problem with this but many will give you their limited key to ensure the safty of their fellow members
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.07.29 14:30:00 - [39] With a new recruit? Suspicious of them? Carry ECM drones. Just a flight of EC-300s (light ewar drones) can jam a battleship without ECCM about 20% of the time. Ye'llo?
Danny Centauri Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.29 15:30:00 - [40] Piracy and infiltration of corps in its self is a feature. This has been done in the past on much bigger scales with spys causing the death of caps/supercaps; whilst stealing multiple billions in assets. The point here is you could avoid this by tightening your recruitment policies, also if your corp all does missions in a local area then if someone gets in trouble you can help each other out. EVE is a sandbox, this is just another part of that and promotes trust amongst corp mates. EVE is a harsh world it was designed that way it might not be for everyone but piracy is here to stay.

kiki mo	Posted - 2010.07.29 17:36:00 - [41] Originally by: Doomfist Edited by: Doomfist on 26/07/2010 23:28:12 Edited by: Doomfist on 26/07/2010 23:25:58 I have been directed here to discuss the problems I have with the feature that allows a fellow corpmates to attack you (often while you have full room agro while on mission in order to steal whatever drops from your mission ship) Ive also been told that I should not fly what I cant afford to lose and im really ok with that advice ,but I would think that the last direction that danger should come from is from the very corporation/team that you happen to be in To qualify this somewhat I need to say that Ive allready been told in another thread that the feature to allow other corpmates to be able to attack each other is to punish people for talking smack on local and getting the corp war decced/ stealing mission completion items/ being able to retrieve stolen ore and practicing PVP Ive also been told I as a corp ceo should do a backround check BEFORE accepting a new member into my corp ( even though my tools at hand ammount to Security rating /age of toon/amount of corps they have been in/ any killbord postings of same corpmate kills/word of mouth and even range to MIND READING) I of course have a problem with a game that does have a HIGH SEC rule about attacking OTHER players involves concord smacking them down but if they are of same corp they are allowed to backstabb with ZERO fear of concord (sorry once again the 1 place other than docked that YOU should be safe from IS FROM THE VERY CORP /TEAM you belong to TO me I dont understand why have HIGH sec rules that punish people that attack other players in high sec but offer NO protection /response to players backstabbing a member of their own team In my opinion the 1 place you should not have to worry about a gank coming from is from a member of your own corp (especially in missions) What kind of TEAM is formed when any teammate can throw the game just like the black socks did in that world series that almost killed baseball so long ago ? Spying cant not be coded out of game but the rule of attacking corpmates (Especially while in mission can be coded out or adjusted to not allow the ganking of corpmates) As the self appointed quality control checker for these types of posts, I will evaluate this post. Does this have the required parts of a C&P tear-filled whine-fest post? 1. Accusation (he stole my stuffz); not quite, but 'he blew me up in a mission' is a close second. I'll allow it. - check 2. No proof whatsoever - check (didn't even give the guys name) 3. Sense of superiority and hurt feelings; with no desire to take any sort of responsibility on him/her self for what happend (I'm a victim; wah) - check 4. Demand that CCP change something - check 5. Many incorrectly spelled words - check (although not nearly as bad as others, I'll still give credit)
Xorth Adimus Caldari The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.07.29 19:28:00 - [42] If one or two guys new corp guys turn up and kill you: 1. Your corp is bad at recruiting as you need to screen and then actually play with the new recruits to ensure they integrate with your corp. You recruit them, your responsibility. 2. They lose out being in the corp (like they care? ) and you can shoot back. 3. Your corp is less fun then the loot/tears from killing one hulk (leading on from 1.) 4. Your corp didn't protect you and/or mercilessly hunt them down? (see 3.) 5. Never carebear in a way that leaves you completely open to dying horribly Please take this as friendly advice eve isn't just about mindless pvp (you suck pew pew we win). Its about knowing who has got your back 100% and who will stab it, this makes your friends and enemies even more then just some random guy you play with. This makes enemies trusted allies and old friends hated or loved. This makes EVE what it is, so go adapt or die my friend.
Captain Yifan Shadows Of The Requiem Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.07.29 20:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Doomfist Edited by: Doomfist on 29/07/2010 01:24:22 Edited by: Doomfist on 29/07/2010 01:23:05 I have said all I need to say .....and I dont care how little or how much you like what I have to say as I believe in what im talking about im my own support group I Know whats right and wrong and why its right and wrong I dont need your support or acceptance If you wanna cling to the its been this way for a long time so it aint going away I would suggest you watch the Star Trek before the next generation stuff if you need training into not being the lemming that most of you are Just cause something exists for years (see british navy power and empire)and measure up that what used to be FACT of yesterday to what exists now and you will know that things do indeed change .....will this game grow to WOWs numbers (11 million) or enjoy a general decline of 65,000 plus to what half that in about a YEAR ? Face it EVE is indeed shrinking in size wanna pretend that this attack your own corp mate with NO risk is NOT part of that problem enjoy yourself while rome burns while you eat your hand fed grapes idiots Cool story bro. Your stuff, can I haz?
Doomfist	Posted - 2010.07.29 23:22:00 - [44] Originally by: Xorth Adimus If one or two guys new corp guys turn up and kill you: 1. Your corp is bad at recruiting as you need to screen and then actually play with the new recruits to ensure they integrate with your corp. You recruit them, your responsibility. 2. They lose out being in the corp (like they care? ) and you can shoot back. 3. Your corp is less fun then the loot/tears from killing one hulk (leading on from 1.) 4. Your corp didn't protect you and/or mercilessly hunt them down? (see 3.) 5. Never carebear in a way that leaves you completely open to dying horribly Please take this as friendly advice eve isn't just about mindless pvp (you suck pew pew we win). Its about knowing who has got your back 100% and who will stab it, this makes your friends and enemies even more then just some random guy you play with. This makes enemies trusted allies and old friends hated or loved. This makes EVE what it is, so go adapt or die my friend. Yes people are BAD at mind reading .......Game mechanics are RETARED and dont have ANY real commonsense what so ever CHECK and CHECK I will be joining YOUR corp and ganking you ........just not under this name Lets see how ya like it Bet you dont like it one bit Trust and friendship and backround checks are fine and all but YOU CAN NOT READ MINDS ...And I WILL EXPLOIT that fact and I dont care how long it takes to show you and all these PUNKS the light I will SHOW you that Your way is stupid and DONT follow any kind of common sense Thanks for a nice fat reason to play the game ....to see you bend your knee .....Ill show you if I cant teach you YOUR WAY is not olny STUPID but INSANE
Galan Amarias Amarr Kantian Principle	Posted - 2010.07.29 23:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Doomfist Ill show you if I cant teach you YOUR WAY is not olny STUPID but INSANE I see they really got your goat on this one. I think you have a fundamental misconception of EVE. All of the rules of EVE are consistant, they are arbitrary and they are highly unconcerned with the 'moral' use that they are put to. This is becauce there is no 'play nice' code. I understand that you feel you should have instant friends when you have corp mates. People in your corp should be those you can trust to help you. However it is your responsibility to make those personal connections. There is no 'friend' button in this game that makes the other player have to be nice to you. That would restrict their play options and that is not what EVE is about. Your primary complaint is that because you can't know if someone is nice or not on a first meeting you should have some way to make them have to be nice. Do you see what you are doing? You want someone elses freedom artifically limited so you can be lazy. You claim you can't read minds.. remember that background check, turns out had you bothered to contact his last CEO you'd have known not to let him in your corp, right there. Heck the guy convoed you! You want a revenge mechannic but every single person who suggests to you that you take some level of personal responsibilty gets ignored, oh you read the words but they do not compute through your silly thick skull. Truth is as long as he joins player corps you have a revenge mechanic, war dec. Or contact to his new ceo and set him up with a remote repper fleet. There are a million ways you can get back at him with no change in mechanics. Be truthful what you really want is a play nice button and some one to agree that missions are some how sacred, that is nonsense. We will not agree to having ourselves limited so you can be lazy. TL;DR Take some responsibility for yourself and the situations your lazyness leads you to, htfu Oh and you were in structure before you shot back and still won?! Either the guy who joined you is the greatest fail fit in the history of EVE or this is a troll. 9/10 you've trolled two seperate forums. Or give me the kill mail and you're just a lucky idiot. -Galan p.s. We're operating in High Sec, please confirm this is your main.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.30 01:09:00 - [46] Originally by: Doomfist Originally by: Xorth Adimus If one or two guys new corp guys turn up and kill you: 1. Your corp is bad at recruiting as you need to screen and then actually play with the new recruits to ensure they integrate with your corp. You recruit them, your responsibility. 2. They lose out being in the corp (like they care? ) and you can shoot back. 3. Your corp is less fun then the loot/tears from killing one hulk (leading on from 1.) 4. Your corp didn't protect you and/or mercilessly hunt them down? (see 3.) 5. Never carebear in a way that leaves you completely open to dying horribly Please take this as friendly advice eve isn't just about mindless pvp (you suck pew pew we win). Its about knowing who has got your back 100% and who will stab it, this makes your friends and enemies even more then just some random guy you play with. This makes enemies trusted allies and old friends hated or loved. This makes EVE what it is, so go adapt or die my friend. Yes people are BAD at mind reading .......Game mechanics are RETARED and dont have ANY real commonsense what so ever CHECK and CHECK I will be joining YOUR corp and ganking you ........just not under this name Lets see how ya like it Bet you dont like it one bit Trust and friendship and backround checks are fine and all but YOU CAN NOT READ MINDS ...And I WILL EXPLOIT that fact and I dont care how long it takes to show you and all these PUNKS the light I will SHOW you that Your way is stupid and DONT follow any kind of common sense Thanks for a nice fat reason to play the game ....to see you bend your knee .....Ill show you if I cant teach you YOUR WAY is not olny STUPID but INSANE Well since we're a pirate corp who havent flown in empire for over a year you're welcome to try and join us anytime, although im pretty sure that since our recruiters actually bother to properly check on people you'll either be refused or be out on your arse within a week, and you certainly wont learn much about highsec corp management other than 'kicking idiots is funny'. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php
Ghurthe	Posted - 2010.07.30 06:23:00 - [47] I think that the corp should be able to tick a box that allows friendly fire or not. That's pretty much the only reason I'll never join a corp in high sec. To me Eve is only 0.0 Alliances or rookie corps.
chopper14	Posted - 2010.07.30 08:01:00 - [48] Hey M8, your obviously new, we have all been there. What happened to you seems like a big deal right now; And at this moment it is. Everyone here pushing on you has been in your shoes cried out and Been told to HTFU. That's why they know how to tear you down. You are taking it hard and that's ok. Most people come to eve thinking they will grab a ship prove themselves and with the help of a few buddies and a couple of months become the most feared and respected force ever seen in the game. This could be due to the sence of superiority instilled by single player games and the false confidence they instill in the average gamer. "I can beat the pc on hard and my best friend so I must be the best". In most of these games they start you off in battle, but with a large advantage. In eve they do this but, there is the added aspect of pvp which is imposible for a new player to contend with. [ The first time I undocked in eve I found my self surounded by negative sec status pirates, promoting ingame ****. They were flashing red and my ship auto targeted so I fired my velators one blaster. I tried again and again. Turned out only the first time was the pirates I had no right to shoot the second guy with my second velator so for the next 30 minuts I did fail battle with concord. first trying to just kill one then just trying to escape. I couldn't understand how people with skull flags next to their names with yellow flashies could deserve police protection. After I found help chat it made bitter sense. ] After a gamer gets wtfpwnd a few times most look towards mining and industrial pursuits. " who would shoot a defensless miner" well... Try to remember video games are somthing society uses to vent stress and anxiety. A few canflippings or gate ganks later and we see the birth of another goodguy Corp, out to keep the public safe from the pirates AKA pvp'rs. eventually it gets infiltrated and if not properly setup and maintained falls apart from the inside out. Or gets decced by a "griefer" Corp and then you will deffo see who really believes in your cause. If you pay close attention you will notice how neutral high sec game mechanics work. If you survive this you still face atrocities committed by your "good guys" Which will need handled by force. But eventually members sharpened by pvp will get addicted since this IS what we came here for in the beginning. they will leave you with the choice of staying behind and training future "pirates". Or bite the bullet, pull the trigger and admit you like it. Don't worry about the fact you flew off the handle. Everybody does when they get their eve cherry broken and then again and again until soon you find youself barely flinching as you watch your cap, which you don't even remember to name being turned into a scrap heap maybe even laughing a little or admiring the men who are doing it. Or just wondering what's for dinner. If you want to go all spy and mark off all the guys in your black book I say heck yea! It's probably the biggest adrenaline rush you will ever find in any game. Everyone should try it at least once. My first time was comparable to the first time I shot a deer. Heart pounding feet fainting BOOM BOOM BOOM feeling. The hardest part is when you get too far in and the men you hated have become good friends. And almost always comes with a measure of guilt that will eventually make any other form if "pirating" seem like an honorable profession. I've been around for awhile. In one form or another. If you or your Corp needs help I can help you set up your Corp in a way that makes it Virtually indestructable. I also offer Corp saving tactical and strategic advice for a Fraction of what a high sec griefer Corp will want when they dec you. Trust me. Your already having fun. "this article was scanned by (my dog) for spelling and gramatical errors and found to be as awesome as Nything else that he has ever peed on. Njoy;)
Danny Centauri Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.30 09:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Doomfist Originally by: Xorth Adimus If one or two guys new corp guys turn up and kill you: 1. Your corp is bad at recruiting as you need to screen and then actually play with the new recruits to ensure they integrate with your corp. You recruit them, your responsibility. 2. They lose out being in the corp (like they care? ) and you can shoot back. 3. Your corp is less fun then the loot/tears from killing one hulk (leading on from 1.) 4. Your corp didn't protect you and/or mercilessly hunt them down? (see 3.) 5. Never carebear in a way that leaves you completely open to dying horribly Please take this as friendly advice eve isn't just about mindless pvp (you suck pew pew we win). Its about knowing who has got your back 100% and who will stab it, this makes your friends and enemies even more then just some random guy you play with. This makes enemies trusted allies and old friends hated or loved. This makes EVE what it is, so go adapt or die my friend. Yes people are BAD at mind reading .......Game mechanics are RETARED and dont have ANY real commonsense what so ever CHECK and CHECK I will be joining YOUR corp and ganking you ........just not under this name Lets see how ya like it Bet you dont like it one bit Trust and friendship and backround checks are fine and all but YOU CAN NOT READ MINDS ...And I WILL EXPLOIT that fact and I dont care how long it takes to show you and all these PUNKS the light I will SHOW you that Your way is stupid and DONT follow any kind of common sense Thanks for a nice fat reason to play the game ....to see you bend your knee .....Ill show you if I cant teach you YOUR WAY is not olny STUPID but INSANE Following background checks you will always have a very small minority who slip through the net, remember you can only pull this trick effectively once or your history will haunt you. This small minority can do nothing to you if you: 1 - Fly with corp mates in the local area, they can then help you out if someone attacks you. 2 - Fly with new corp mates in a cheap fit, only fly what you can afford to lose. 3 - Have a set of ECM drones lying around just in case. You have to remember the people coming into your corp to kill you are in the vast majority clever people, looking for a return on their investment of time. If you make it so that they have nothing of value to kill when flying with you they won't waste much time and move on. Piracy is part of the game. EVE is meant to be a harsh world, and is made so by design. Yes this means it is a minority game, but a minority game that has grown over the last 3 years. Regardless of the hiccups there have been along the way whether that be questionable GM actions and broken game mechanics (POS bowling, lag, dual MWD missile spamming ravens etc) EVE has continued to grow because sooner or later people realise there is actually a buzz to a game where you can actually lose something you invested time into gaining.
Black Dranzer	Posted - 2010.07.30 11:50:00 - [50] Wow, the amount of bile towards the OP in this thread is nothing short of astounding. Yes, kill rights should not be forced into a corp. This isn't a question of "carebears" (the Eve equivalent to calling somebody a commie during the cold war) but of corporation control. I can limit wallet access. I can limit hanger access. Why the hell can't I limit kill rights? Maybe I want to only afford the ability to shoot each other to specific groups, in order to enable corp-local police forces. Maybe I just want to leave it off at all times except during training runs. Maybe I want to leave it on constantly and encourage players to take shots at each other whenever possible. If I may indulge in a little strawmanning: Oh, you want to be able to control hanger access? Would you like fluffy pillows to wear around you so your ship doesn't get hurt too? HTFU carebears, Eve isn't meant to be a friendly world for you to play in. You should screen corp thieves and make sure that they don't get in. Resub to WoW if you don't like it, we don't want your kind here. -------------------------------------------------- Learning skills are an ultimatum, not a choice.

Danny Centauri Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.30 12:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Black Dranzer I can limit wallet access. I can limit hanger access. Why the hell can't I limit kill rights? Maybe I want to only afford the ability to shoot each other to specific groups, in order to enable corp-local police forces. Maybe I just want to leave it off at all times except during training runs. Maybe I want to leave it on constantly and encourage players to take shots at each other whenever possible. I don't know whether this is just flame bait or what but would be rather tarded if this was possible. CONCORD is a non player regulatory body, they set the rules we follow them not the other way around. I would love it if this was actually extended further to who ever you have set blue you can shoot without CONCORD intervention. This would prevent the blue out of convenience culture which is causing large coalitions. Imagine a spy from one corp ganking a freighter from a blue indy alt corp of a friendly alliance carrying all their moon goo - the drama could be epic. Corp members should show trust towards each other, as should allies. Put more and more safety nets in place and you have a rather boring game with no risk - hello kitty online here we come.
Black Dranzer	Posted - 2010.07.30 12:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Danny Centauri Put more and more safety nets in place and you have a rather boring game with no risk I'm genuinely sick of this argument. You can't say that "safety nets make the game Hello Kitty Online", because *this game is full* of safety nets*. They're everywhere. Stations, gate guns, concord, corp roles, kill rights, security status, the basic market, the contract system. The game is full of devices which help to keep players from screwing each other over. Saying that safety nets are bad just shows how ignorant* you are as to actual state of the game. Safety nets are what keeps this game from being deserted. Remove concord, watch the subscriber numbers plummet, then talk to me about how safety nets are killing the game. -------------------------------------------------- Learning skills are an ultimatum, not a choice.
Captain Yifan Shadows Of The Requiem Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.07.30 13:40:00 - [53] Originally by: Black Dranzer Originally by: Danny Centauri Put more and more safety nets in place and you have a rather boring game with no risk I'm genuinely sick of this argument. You can't say that "safety nets make the game Hello Kitty Online", because *this game is full* of safety nets*. They're everywhere. Stations, gate guns, concord, corp roles, kill rights, security status, the basic market, the contract system. The game is full of devices which help to keep players from screwing each other over. Saying that safety nets are bad just shows how ignorant* you are as to actual state of the game. Safety nets are what keeps this game from being deserted. Remove concord, watch the subscriber numbers plummet, then talk to me about how safety nets are killing the game. And beating up a straw man certainly helps your point. The reason why we play EvE is not because it does/does not have a safety net, but because it has far less safety nets compared to, say, WoW. EvE does have the basic safety measurements that offers some elementry protection that prevents newbies from being killed every 3 seconds, and allows more diverse playstyles such as industry and trade. However, that is as far as it goes. A lot of the so-called "safety nets" you described can also be easily used to screw people over. Can-flipping, wreck-baiting, infiltration, corp theft, contract scam, heist, cartel, just to name a few. The OP was asking for more safety nets, and the arguments is whether increasing the number of safety net is necessary. Your argument can be basically paraphrased as "if we decrease the number of safety nets, then EvE will become unplaybale". Do I really have to be a douche and point out that your argument is, erm, totally irrelavent and you do not have a point in the first place?
Danny Centauri Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.30 14:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Black Dranzer Originally by: Danny Centauri Put more and more safety nets in place and you have a rather boring game with no risk I'm genuinely sick of this argument. You can't say that "safety nets make the game Hello Kitty Online", because this game is full of safety nets. They're everywhere. Stations, gate guns, concord, corp roles, kill rights, security status, the basic market, the contract system. The game is full of devices which help to keep players from screwing each other over. Saying that safety nets are bad just shows how ignorant you are as to actual state of the game. Safety nets are what keeps this game from being deserted. Remove concord, watch the subscriber numbers plummet, then talk to me about how safety nets are killing the game. I don't want to remove safety nets in place, but they are more than adequate when the player uses common sense (shock horror I mentioned common sense which seems to be used far too infrequently). The current mechanics allow for both positive and negative uses, which is in the very sandbox nature of EVE and the harsh universe which it is by design. The most important part of your post has been bolded with stars around it, the current systems provide 'help' they do not make you invulnerable to play styles such as infiltration and piracy. As for my suggestion about being able to shoot mutual blues too, I think that is something that is actually worth thinking about. Every other mechanic has some way in which it can be used with negative intent, other than the standings system. Every change that is made to EVE should be made it diversify the number of things you can do, not restrict them. Which is the exact reason I oppose this suggested change. Lets remember CCP have never aimed to be WOW or the biggest online game. EVE is pretty much the only online game that is completely player driven and sandbox, lets keep it that way. The day my fleet fights are instanced I am catching a plane and pimp slapping someone in Iceland.
mean bunny Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.07.30 17:57:00 - [55] As a former corpmate killer I can add a little to this discussion. It's fun. Try it with an alt and pick a juicy mark. Here's an epic video of a corpmate destroying an entire mining op....(with coms....lols) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKW0ER4jjAs&playnext=1&videos=y9-sNLvbA8Q
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.07.30 17:59:00 - [56] Originally by: mean bunny As a former corpmate killer I can add a little to this discussion. It's fun. Try it with an alt and pick a juicy mark. Here's an epic video of a corpmate destroying an entire mining op....(with coms....lols) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKW0ER4jjAs&playnext=1&videos=y9-sNLvbA8Q You're a mean bunny. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2010.07.30 18:07:00 - [57] Indeed, nobody can read mind. Indeed, almost any corp will have to be put up with a spy/rogue no matter how careful their selection process is (include the hellish selective recruitment of corps such as Noir), and indeed, the most powerful alliance in the history of EvE was brought down by the betrayal of one of its own members. And because of that, we love EvE.
Scott McClellan	Posted - 2010.07.30 21:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Zanzbar Notice how ccp didn't make it so you couldent shoot someone in highsec, but rather they lose their ship shortly after. they want conflict wherever posible Clearly they didn't since this is the exact nature of the OP's complaint.
Mike C Caldari MicroFunks Green Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.30 23:00:00 - [59] Edited by: Mike C on 30/07/2010 23:03:13 Edited by: Mike C on 30/07/2010 23:00:56 Originally by: Captain Yifan Originally by: Black Dranzer Originally by: Danny Centauri Put more and more safety nets in place and you have a rather boring game with no risk I'm genuinely sick of this argument. You can't say that "safety nets make the game Hello Kitty Online", because *this game is full* of safety nets*. They're everywhere. Stations, gate guns, concord, corp roles, kill rights, security status, the basic market, the contract system. The game is full of devices which help to keep players from screwing each other over. Saying that safety nets are bad just shows how ignorant* you are as to actual state of the game. Safety nets are what keeps this game from being deserted. Remove concord, watch the subscriber numbers plummet, then talk to me about how safety nets are killing the game. And beating up a straw man certainly helps your point. The reason why we play EvE is not because it does/does not have a safety net, but because it has far less safety nets compared to, say, WoW. EvE does have the basic safety measurements that offers some elementry protection that prevents newbies from being killed every 3 seconds, and allows more diverse playstyles such as industry and trade. However, that is as far as it goes. A lot of the so-called "safety nets" you described can also be easily used to screw people over. Can-flipping, wreck-baiting, infiltration, corp theft, contract scam, heist, cartel, just to name a few. The OP was asking for more safety nets, and the arguments is whether increasing the number of safety net is necessary. Your argument can be basically paraphrased as "if we decrease the number of safety nets, then EvE will become unplaybale". Do I really have to be a douche and point out that your argument is, erm, totally irrelavent and you do not have a point in the first place? Not only that, but anyone who has been playing since before hictors (no tackling supercaps in lowsec) and instakill concord (tanking concord was fun) knows that the game would be fine without 3/4 of the current 'safety nets'. I don't even need to go into Argumentum ad populum, as a popular game is not always a good game. EDIT: Also using unprobable setups is pretty much safe mode, if you really want to carebear it up go that route. NOTE: I do not in any way shape or form advocate the use of `unprobable` ships, modules, setups, etc. ↑↑ bar is just /quote ↑↑ [03:17:29] Trade Skills > Jesus believes in god [03:17:38] Mike C > believed* [03:17:48] Trade Skills > touche
Dengen Krastinov Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.07.31 03:24:00 - [60] If you remove the ability for corp mates to attack eachother you're SERIOUSLY damaging the game. Corp mates need to be able to test/practice against eachother. No to the "duel button" EvE is a hardass game. Get used to it. Every step in the direction of making EvE a 'arranged pvp' game is taking the game in the wrong direction. Go back to wow. Seriously.



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