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Bangin Asian	Posted - 2010.08.01 00:19:00 - [1] I had bought this ship about 3 months ago and have guns trained now for T2. The question I want to raise is A. With the 3 neuts is DPS more of a factor by dropping a 1600 and adding a heat sink or since anything you fight isnt going to have cap the extra EHP is better. (Note I have a set of LG slaves in and +5% dmg implant). Also if I should drop the web for an ECCM? Thanks for the help guys With my skills on EFT I get EHP:230,000 Armor:58,772 DPS Guns:533 Alpha:2839 Resists:76.3;69.1;64.4,62 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II True Sansha Stasis Webifier Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 True Sansha Stasis Webifier Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Dark Blood Heavy Energy Neutralizer Dark Blood Heavy Energy Neutralizer Dark Blood Heavy Energy Neutralizer Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.08.01 00:56:00 - [2] u solo? low sec? CRAZY? -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Bangin Asian	Posted - 2010.08.01 03:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac u solo? low sec? CRAZY? Mostly solo while in empire and sometimes have a Guardian with me if he is on when I go to low sec
Arazel Chainfire Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2010.08.01 05:31:00 - [4] Going with an all lvl 5 skilled character, using your fit and the implants you have mentioned, I get 236k EHP, 585 gun dps, and 744 total DPS if using hammerhead 2's. Add a second heatsink, and the EHP drops to 201k, while the total DPS jumps to 872. Personally, a nearly 100 dps increase is well worth the loss of EHP. Of course, the last time I took a BS out PvPing, it was a 1300dps shield tanked domi, so you can see that I am a little biased... That being said, its really up to you. However, train up those skills a little more, and invest in the other 5% damage implant . -Arazel
Odvian	Posted - 2010.08.01 10:28:00 - [5] at the moment this is the setup i have on my mine [Bhaalgorn, New Setup 1] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Domination Stasis Webifier Domination Stasis Webifier Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x3 that with my skills puts out 659 with drones its 846. thats alota pain when u cant fight back :) will be upgrading some more parts to faction once i get around to it. tbh i prefer more resist over buffer, but your fit is solid
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2010.08.01 15:52:00 - [6] last fit is not bad, just get faction eanms and faction neuts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.01 17:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Odvian Domination Stasis Webifier Domination Stasis Webifier Warp Disruptor II Why not fed navy webs? Why not a faction point - seems like its one of the first things you'd want to upgrade? I would also check http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=31050 -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.08.01 18:27:00 - [8] why do people fit dmg mods on a lol dmg ship... its meant to neut and have an insane buffer, and then neut some more... :/ Personally i fit a full rack of neuts with a 550k ehp buffer... --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here
Klazktrknuitzksalikamono	Posted - 2010.08.01 18:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Odvian at the moment this is the setup i have on my mine [Bhaalgorn, New Setup 1] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Domination Stasis Webifier Domination Stasis Webifier Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x3 that with my skills puts out 659 with drones its 846. thats alota pain when u cant fight back :) will be upgrading some more parts to faction once i get around to it. tbh i prefer more resist over buffer, but your fit is solid You get more DPS (Faster might I add) Out of 2-Ogre-2-Hammerhead-1-Warrior
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.08.01 18:56:00 - [10] Originally by: adriaans why do people fit dmg mods on a lol dmg ship... its meant to neut and have an insane buffer, and then neut some more... :/ Personally i fit a full rack of neuts with a 550k ehp buffer... Because some people undock it in something other than 30-men blobs? As far as faction goes.. point then webs, then neuts.. then everything else.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.08.01 19:01:00 - [11] Edited by: adriaans on 01/08/2010 19:04:55 Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Originally by: adriaans why do people fit dmg mods on a lol dmg ship... its meant to neut and have an insane buffer, and then neut some more... :/ Personally i fit a full rack of neuts with a 550k ehp buffer... Because some people undock it in something other than 30-men blobs? As far as faction goes.. point then webs, then neuts.. then everything else. That ship is built for less than 5 man gang... for solo im getting a 2.2k dps vindicator edit: if you were thinking about my recent kb activity of 20-30 man gang that was helping out some blues, I'm pretty much solo or up to 5 man gang otherwise. --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.08.01 19:26:00 - [12] Originally by: adriaans That ship is built for less than 5 man gang... Yeah, hence you go with damage mods on it - because DPS loss of it in full neut config is quite significant for gang. Not to mention it goes through 800s on rampage in full neut setup
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.01 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Yeah, hence you go with damage mods on it - because DPS loss of it in full neut config is quite significant for gang. Not to mention it goes through 800s on rampage in full neut setup I don't know if I'd field a full neut setup without some cap transferring guardians/capships. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.08.01 23:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Yeah, hence you go with damage mods on it - because DPS loss of it in full neut config is quite significant for gang. Not to mention it goes through 800s on rampage in full neut setup I don't know if I'd field a full neut setup without some cap transferring guardians/capships. -Liang you got it cap transfer FTW Reason for full neut with 4-5 man gang is it enables FAR more options of engagement than the 450-600dps you loose ever will. Bigger gang full RR BS'S? yes please, they never know what hits them when no one have cap to RR the primary --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2010.08.02 07:08:00 - [15] yes, since bigger RR BS gang will not melt your 5 man gang right, assuming u have at least one guardian with cap transfer that leaves u three ships with dps.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2010.08.02 13:26:00 - [16] Originally by: adriaans why do people fit dmg mods on a lol dmg ship... its meant to neut and have an insane buffer, and then neut some more... :/ I have 2 heatsinks on mine and it does about 900 dps with drones, with only 4 guns you can keep the overload up for long bringing it to just over 1k. That's not loldps, it's very decent if not exactly stellar. As for webs, IMO true sansha are best, 55% effect makes it better than domination while 1km extra gets felt over federation navy due to range bonus. Since there are 2 their slowdown effect is satisfactory. Basic fit is rather straightforward, 4 mega pulses, 3 heavy neuts, mwd, heavy cap booster, 2 webs, point, 2 plates, 2 eanms, dc, 2 heatsinks, trimarks. Pimpage, as was said, should start from webs then neuts and point, then everything else. Can also vary the lows somewhat, I can see dropping a heatsink for more ehp being useful in certain situations. But on average dps equals life, it's the case with any ship and this one is no exception. If you want to use up the spare grid you can alternatively go with 1 plate and large rep, however to make this be more efficient than the bread and butter buffer fit you'll going to need a very expensive rep and eanms too, also meta 14 cap booster is highly recommended. Also slave set. This pushes the price level much higher but in my experience it's more effective since the tank goes to some odd 600 dps with overload and exile, which is usually enough to compensate for some 30-40k loss of ehp since if you're receiving over 2 or 3k dps you're likely dead anyway. Originally by: Psychotic Maniac u solo? low sec? CRAZY? With scouting alt it works very very well.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:34:00 - [17] Originally by: LordInvisible yes, since bigger RR BS gang will not melt your 5 man gang right, assuming u have at least one guardian with cap transfer that leaves u three ships with dps.. this 5 man gang config happens to have 3.5-4k dps rr'd while dealing 2.1-2.3k dps with all having 79.5 or higher sensor strrnght and enough neuting power to shut down a 8 man rr gang quite confidently. good luck killing and especially repping anything (even with cap boosters) when so few ships can shoot with no cap considering the extreme use of laser ships all over the place and no guardian is not used... no dps.. crappy ehp.. 8x heavy neut abaddon works as a cheap bhaal too Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: adriaans why do people fit dmg mods on a lol dmg ship... its meant to neut and have an insane buffer, and then neut some more... :/ I have 2 heatsinks on mine and it does about 900 dps with drones, with only 4 guns you can keep the overload up for long bringing it to just over 1k. That's not loldps, it's very decent if not exactly stellar. and by fitting that you now have less ehp than a standard slaved and trimared geddon unless you go t2 trimarks and a-type eanms... the whole point of using a bhaalgorn is to have a ship that shuts down everything that uses cap while still not being a good target to call primary... by dmg fitting them you make them perfect primaries AND strongly limits their ability to shut down other ships... thats my take on how the ship should be used at least. --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2010.08.02 15:51:00 - [18] Originally by: adriaans and by fitting that you now have less ehp than a standard slaved and trimared geddon unless you go t2 trimarks and a-type eanms... the whole point of using a bhaalgorn is to have a ship that shuts down everything that uses cap while still not being a good target to call primary... by dmg fitting them you make them perfect primaries AND strongly limits their ability to shut down other ships... But you will be the l33t victim in the fight...
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2010.08.02 16:12:00 - [19] Originally by: adriaans and by fitting that you now have less ehp than a standard slaved and trimared geddon unless you go t2 trimarks and a-type eanms... the whole point of using a bhaalgorn is to have a ship that shuts down everything that uses cap while still not being a good target to call primary... by dmg fitting them you make them perfect primaries AND strongly limits their ability to shut down other ships... I have problems imagining a good geddon fit that goes above 250k ehp - 8 slot tank failfits or specialized baits aside. As for whole point of using a bhaalgorn, if you are going after neuting a capital ship that you don't have sufficient dps to break fast enough normally, sure. I'd personally really hate to have a faction BS in hangar that is only really useful once in X weeks/months when that particular situation arises. But if you want a fighting fit for actual daily use you'll likely need guns and heatsinks. It is not exactly a good RR bs gang ship (unless we're talking about capital killing with otherwise insufficient dps as I said) since both webbing and cap warfare becomes of secondary or even totally marginal importance as numbers of BS rises and what you need is dps and RR and, for most of us, isk efficiency since primaries tend to die no matter their cost. Bringing one to such a fight would be stupid. It's a great solo ship though, and great in gangs of 2, 3 or 4. And this is no eft or sisi or whatever talk, I actually do it so I dare say I know what I'm talking about in this particular case. Anyway, my take on it.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.08.02 21:39:00 - [20] Edited by: adriaans on 02/08/2010 21:39:48 Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: adriaans and by fitting that you now have less ehp than a standard slaved and trimared geddon unless you go t2 trimarks and a-type eanms... the whole point of using a bhaalgorn is to have a ship that shuts down everything that uses cap while still not being a good target to call primary... by dmg fitting them you make them perfect primaries AND strongly limits their ability to shut down other ships... I have problems imagining a good geddon fit that goes above 250k ehp - 8 slot tank failfits or specialized baits aside. As for whole point of using a bhaalgorn, if you are going after neuting a capital ship that you don't have sufficient dps to break fast enough normally, sure. I'd personally really hate to have a faction BS in hangar that is only really useful once in X weeks/months when that particular situation arises. But if you want a fighting fit for actual daily use you'll likely need guns and heatsinks. It is not exactly a good RR bs gang ship (unless we're talking about capital killing with otherwise insufficient dps as I said) since both webbing and cap warfare becomes of secondary or even totally marginal importance as numbers of BS rises and what you need is dps and RR and, for most of us, isk efficiency since primaries tend to die no matter their cost. Bringing one to such a fight would be stupid. It's a great solo ship though, and great in gangs of 2, 3 or 4. And this is no eft or sisi or whatever talk, I actually do it so I dare say I know what I'm talking about in this particular case. Anyway, my take on it. a fit like above (edit: meant OP's fit) but with 2 heat sinks has same ehp as a geddon.. an abaddon more. slaves work on those ships too. i dont do blob fights so i wouldnt know how it holds against much more than 10 hostiles, but i would guess a pure buffer + neut would still be a lot better for you're gang as it A; takes 2-3 times as long to die than a normal BS then compared to same as any bs if dmg fit, and b; shuts down several cap hungry ships. In a small gang vs small gang it shuts down EVERYTHING that uses cap, thats how powerful a pure neut config is, it is not just used for taking down caps way faster. IMO thats more useful than some dps (yes even 1k overheated). and even for this it hardly stays docked most of the time. however we can agree to disagree --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.08.02 21:52:00 - [21] Originally by: adriaans a fit like above (edit: meant OP's fit) but with 2 heat sinks has same ehp as a geddon.. an abaddon more. slaves work on those ships too. 3 HS, dual plate Arma has 150k EHP with Slaves out of gang. Bhaal has 225k with 2 HS, that's hardly same. 3 HS Abba has 190k EHP, 2 HS Abba has 230k, so..?
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.08.02 22:35:00 - [22] Edited by: adriaans on 02/08/2010 22:44:13 Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Originally by: adriaans a fit like above (edit: meant OP's fit) but with 2 heat sinks has same ehp as a geddon.. an abaddon more. slaves work on those ships too. 3 HS, dual plate Arma has 150k EHP with Slaves out of gang. Bhaal has 225k with 2 HS, that's hardly same. 3 HS Abba has 190k EHP, 2 HS Abba has 230k, so..? not with true sansha eanms and t1 trimarks unless i was far to tired when looking and misread... (i was assuming 2 HS geddon/abby btw). Edit: 2x HS bhaal using ts eanms and t1 rigs + slaves: 224.5k ehp. Armageddon with 2x HS and slaves: 187k ehp. Abaddon 2x HS and slaves: 234k ehp. My reasoning for not pure neut fit compared to dmg mods is in my other posts. --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.03 08:24:00 - [23] Not an expert, but the DPS output of such a ship is irrelevant unless fighting solo or with 1-2 other BSs tops...focusing on the Neuting / Web bonuses + buffer is surely better. 1-2 HSs in it seems a waste, since with that pricetag you can get ships with overwhelming DPS. Should the bhaal itself deal 600, 700 or 800 dps is not of great importance if it can web and disable 2-3 ships at a 30km radius... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.03 11:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Bangin Asian I had bought this ship about 3 months ago and have guns trained now for T2. The question I want to raise is A. With the 3 neuts is DPS more of a factor by dropping a 1600 and adding a heat sink or since anything you fight isnt going to have cap the extra EHP is better. (Note I have a set of LG slaves in and +5% dmg implant). Also if I should drop the web for an ECCM? Thanks for the help guys With my skills on EFT I get EHP:230,000 Armor:58,772 DPS Guns:533 Alpha:2839 Resists:76.3;69.1;64.4,62 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II True Sansha Stasis Webifier Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 True Sansha Stasis Webifier Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Dark Blood Heavy Energy Neutralizer Dark Blood Heavy Energy Neutralizer Dark Blood Heavy Energy Neutralizer Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Faction everything but not faction cap boosters?.. If there was ever any one ship I would use faction cap booster charges on it would be a bhaalgorn... (hint hint) __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..

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