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Trying to efficiently make P4 with several planets

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Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 18:17:00 - [1] - Quote To start, I am 100% a pvp player...so talk to me like somebody who has no prior knowledge of PI and you are welcome to treat me like an idiot. That being said, I have done some research, and have done my best to understand how everything works. I understand there are better money making opportunities in EVE, but this is something I can do that has structure to it. I also understand that I will need about an hour of work a day, and I can and happily will do that. (initial setup not included) inb4: PI is worthless and you should just make isk elsewhere. I know that there are easier ways to make isk, especially considering what alliance I'm in, but I wanna give this a try, and the regular intervals of work needed fit well into my schedule of real life. EDIT: All my math and equations here are based on this. http://picommodityrelations.comyr.com/pi.html My goal is to be producing P4 materials using a maximum of 30 or 31 planets. I will be doing this with 2 accounts and 6 characters (3 toons per account) all trained to level 4 skills throughout Planetary management. The exception will be a possible level 5 planet account to gain 1 extra planet, but I will discuss that later. My idea from the top down: The 31st planet (the only toon trained to level 5) will be solely used for taking in P3 goods. It will be in my main system of operations and will just have P3 pumped in and P4 pumped out. I will split up the toons into teams of 2. Each team (10 planets) producing a different P3 material. I will have 1 planet for each team (3 total) specifically used for producing a different P3 material to be used in the P4 production. Losing 1 planet to P3 production, I am left with 9 planets. As each P3 requires 3, P2 inputs of equal value, I will split the remaining planets into 3 groups. Each group harvesting 2 materials, turning them into P1, and then converting them to P2. All in all, I will have (1) P4 Production Planet, (3) P3 Production Planets, and (27) P2 Production Planets with P1 and extractors. I'm sure that I'm oversimplifying things, and the initial setup and research will be a nightmare. However just basing it mathematically, this seems like the most efficient way to max out P4 production using the least amount of transport time to the most amount of product being produced. TL;DR: Read just the plan part and tell me if I'm somewhat making sense in this, or if I'm so far off track that I should give up this venture compeltely. Thank you and fly safe, ~Sparks
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2012.07.24 18:31:00 - [2] - Quote You're going to need more than an hour/day for that many planets. If you have no/low import/export taxes, you'll be fine. Otherwise, you may wish to setup a few P2->P4 factory planets. The grid/cpu actually works out better that way (and taxes are better.) Good luck.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 18:49:00 - [3] - Quote I'll be running my extractors on 24 hours cycles, so from what I understood, aside from flopping planets, I shouldn't have a terrible amount of time for the day-to-day running this. As far as P2->P4 you've lost me. I have little to no knowledge of how the infrastructure of this works, so I'm trying to do my best to understand. I'm working solely on math at this point. I have no practical knowledge outside of 3 equal parts to make p4, 3 equal parts to make p3, etc.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 18:50:00 - [4] - Quote As a secondary, I have 0 tax rate on my poco's so that's not a hassle. I also can use the P4 goods in my local null-sec as the indy side of my corp needs the parts to build towers and such. So I can get max price with minimal movement of final product.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote There are 3 types of P4 product, I call them Easy, Medium, and Hard. There are 3 easy ones, 2 mediums, and 2 hards. The easy ones have a ratio of 1 P4 factory: 4 P3 factories: 16 P2 factories: 64 P1 factories. The medium ones have a ratio of 1 P4 factory: 6 P3 factories: 24 P2 factories: 96 P1 factories. The Hard ones have a ratio of 1 P4 factory: 6 P3 factories: 36 P2 factories: 144 P1 factories. With a small enough planet, you can get 4 easy P4 factories and the 16 P3 factories need to support them. (Import P2 products export P4 products.) (64 P2 factories and 256 P1 factories on other planets.) You can fit 3 P4 and 18 P3 factories for the other two. (72 P2 factories and 288 P1 factories for the mediums and 108 P2 factories and 432 P1 factories for hards will need to be on other planets, and the associated extractors.) If you want a planet to make P4s from P1s, the P4 factory will run at 50% time, but save you other steps. But the above lets you use enough storage to run for a couple days or so between visits. This planet will have 2 space ports and run for about 33 hours or so. You may want to see how healthy your lower level PI market is in your area, try putting up some buy orders if you want to indirectly recruit others to help. Drox
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:29:00 - [6] - Quote Well, firstly I'm not planning to outsource materials from other people. I would highly consider this if I was in highsec, but the 0% tax rate and the complete lack of others doing PI in the area make it unreasonable to go elsewhere. I do have access to some rather small planets that I can use for the P4 production. Does this mean I should scratch the 31st planet, and just run 3 of them doing P2-P4? Have the other 27 set up to just make P2 and then export to the 3 factory planets? Also from what it looks like, you run your factories at a 4:1 ratio. However all the math I read about commodities is 3:1. http://picommodityrelations.comyr.com/pi.html Does this mean that something is lost in the process and that accounts for the extra import reqirements?
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:43:00 - [7] - Quote The P4 factory consume 6 of each input. The P3 factories produce 3 of each output per cycle. The entire chain is like this, 1 factory produces half of what the next stage needs for that material. Thus, if your P4 takes 2 P3 materials, you need 2 P3 factories for each. If you cannot buy P2's from the market, then don't build too much infrustructure. You need 5000km or smaller radius Barren or Temperate planets for P4 production with Advanced Command Centers (lvl 4) to fit tight setups. With level 5, there are few tight setups. Assume level 4 skills: With 30 or 31 planets, you need to establish what your output rate is. Each extractor planet will support up to 18 P1 factories, I'm hoping that one extractor maxes these out for you. 18 * n extractor planets, max is 540 P1 factories, but we need some P2 factories. You can get 22 P2 factories on a planet. 22 * (30 - n) P1->P2 factories, so max is 660. 288/18 = 16 extraction planets. 72/22 = 3.2 P2 factory planets. 1 medium P2->P4 factory planet. 21 Planets, assuming your extraction planets are godly. You'll likely need to double up on some of them. Good Luck, Drox
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:50:00 - [8] - Quote Okay, and math wins the day today. I'll run it up using that formula then. (1) P2 -> P4 Factory Planet (4) P1 -> P2 Factory Planets (~20) P0 -> P1 Extraction Planets I'll run up the extra set of extraction planets to ensure I don't go under for necessary imports. Thank you for the help.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:53:00 - [9] - Quote You missed P3s, your numbers are wrong. I'm assuming that you plan to do one of the three easy P4s: Nano-Factory Organic Mortar Applicators Sterile Conduits P4:P3:P2:P1:Extractors 1:4:16:64:extractors as needed I just have in the setup I suggested the P3 factories on the same planet as the P4 factories. Good luck.
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.24 20:11:00 - [10] - Quote Quote: 1:4:16:64:extractors as needed does it take into account that P1's are produced every 30 mins while all the others every hr? Wouldn't it mean that you need "only" 32 BIF (P1 factories) to keep the chain going? sparky check this also, a good scheme for such things could help a lot also to figure out which planets you need. Anyway 30 planets are a lot to manage and if you brake the chain (meaning some day you forget or just can't feed the hamsters) than fixing is a pain. My personal suggest would be starting producing a single P4 and see how things go for the first week but meh that could be just because I suck in PI planning
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2012.07.24 20:16:00 - [11] - Quote Haffsol wrote: Quote: 1:4:16:64:extractors as needed does it take into account that P1's are produced every 30 mins while all the others every hr? Wouldn't it mean that you need "only" 32 BIF (P1 factories) to keep the chain going? sparky check this also, a good scheme for such things could help a lot also to figure out which planets you need. Anyway 30 planets are a lot to manage and if you brake the chain (meaning some day you forget or just can't feed the hamsters) than fixing is a pain. My personal suggest would be starting producing a single P4 and see how things go for the first week but meh that could be just because I suck in PI planning Honestly, I had forgotten they had a 30 minute timer. I haven't used any P1 facilities for a long time. I hate dealing with extractor planets. So, yay that is 1/2 as bad as I calculated out. Drox.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:19:00 - [12] - Quote Well, actually my intention was to make wetware mainframes
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:24:00 - [13] - Quote WWs are hard P4: 1 P4 factory: 6 P3 factories: 36 P2 factories: 72 P1 factories.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:30:00 - [14] - Quote Droxlyn wrote: WWs are hard P4: 1 P4 factory: 6 P3 factories: 36 P2 factories: 72 P1 factories. So how would you divide up the planets for this product?
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:40:00 - [15] - Quote The 72 P1 processors are allocated to the extraction planets. I don't know what's available to you or how efficient they will be in producing P0s. Some of the P2s use the same P1s, so some planets will double up what they feed. You will need 18 "P1" chains. So, at least 2 P1 processors per planet if you set up 18 different planets for extraction. (Again, you will have some redundancy you can use to merge these, the key is, you want to keep Every pair of P1 factories you need busy 100% of the time.) Two planets for P1 to P2 conversion. One planet for P2 to P3 to P4 conversion. If you are efficient enough with your raw materials, you will double up everything and add another line to your P2->p4 planet. If you are super lucky, and you may be, you can triple up and use your P4 factory planet to the max. After that, you'll need to let off some stress and go PvP because you'll want to kill somebody. You should be able to double up on at least 7 different products. Drox
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:48:00 - [16] - Quote So it would be unwise to use my extraction planets to go straight to P2 then? I know I can set up the planets correctly with (2) ECU's, (2) Storage, (4) P1 Factories, (2) P2 Factories, and a launch pad. With each ECU obviously feeding into the storage, then the 2 P1 factories, which will feed right into the P2 and then into the launchpad. That seemed like the most reasonable way to export materials as I would not have any transportation of P1 or P0 materials. P2 isn't super load intensive so it wouldn't be a ton of cargo for me to move all the time. Will my return be drastically reduced in this fashion? Or does this seem like a viable way to use the majority of "extraction" planets to produce P2 materials? The above setup I was given by a friend and it would look like this (using the smallest planets give me an 8th extractor head) http://imgur.com/Y8kKZ EDIT: Apology for having so many questions, but I've gotten more information from you than anybody so far.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:56:00 - [17] - Quote If you are able to, make P2s on your extraction planets. Not all of them will be able to be made on the extraction planets though, not without transporting one of the P1s from another planet. However, doing P2 on an extraction planet may limit how much you can extract, limiting your over-all process.
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.24 22:05:00 - [18] - Quote you don't need storages if you produce P2 with a similar setup. Just link everything to and from the launchpad, it will svee you a lot of pg and 10k m3 will be enough for at least 3 days of production, if you extract around 12-13k units per hour (which is what you need to feed the P1's). You should be able to produce an excess of P1 (adding a couple of P1's factories) but I doubt you'll be able to put a 3rd P2 factory with PI skills at 4 (not enough pg), but it depends on how many heads you need to extract said 12k/hr and how many you need to extract 18k/hr per each ECU this is your setup without storages btw: http://i.imgur.com/hvBir.jpg
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 22:36:00 - [19] - Quote For wetware mainframes, all the P2 materials used can be made on individual planets (as they have all the required raw materials). Each P2 materials is below with what planet they can be made on individually. Biotech Research Reports - Construction Blocks (Lava / Plasma) - Livestock (Oceanic / Temperate) - Nanites (Barren) Cryoprotectant Solution - Fertilizer (Oceanic / Temperate) - Synthetic Oil (Gas / Storm) - Test Cultures (Barren) Super Computers - Consumer Electronics ( Lava / Plasma) - Coolant (Gas / Storm) - Water-Cooled CPU (Barren / Gas / Storm) Your no storage set-up also works really well, and I think I may even go with that as it makes more sense. As far as fitting in the 3rd setup, I am more than content with just 2 P2 factories producing per extractor planet. My initial plan is to produce Biotech Research Reports as they are selling for the most. I will add to the infrastructure over time to produce the other P3 and then the P4. My biggest issue now is to figure out the number of planets I need for each. I know I need 1 planet for the P3/P4 Factory Planet. However, I'm attempting to work out how many extractor-P2 planets I will need for EACH P3 product to figure out how I can start building the infrastructure one P3 chain at a time.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 22:58:00 - [20] - Quote Droxlyn wrote: WWs are hard P4: 1 P4 factory: 6 P3 factories: 36 P2 factories: 72 P1 factories. Is it going to be feasible to have 2 P4 factories and 12 P3 factories for my final product factory planet?
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.24 23:36:00 - [21] - Quote Quote: Is it going to be feasible to have 2 P4 factories and 12 P3 factories for my final product factory planet? yes, an Improved CC has 21.315/17.000 cpu/pg units. P4 fact = 1.100/400 P3 fact = 500/700 total should be 12.300/10.600 so you've plenty cpu and pg for those. check my maths here: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Buildings Quote: I know I need 1 planet for the P3/P4 Factory Planet. However, I'm attempting to work out how many extractor-P2 planets I will need for EACH P3 product to figure out how I can start building the infrastructure one P3 chain at a time. eh! That's an hard question to answer. PI sucks because you'll never know before surveying your planets how much goo they have in their soil even if you can estimate it, but also the survey can be very far from what you'll finally get and the goo can flow quite distant from where it was when you started drilling it. Then, the depletion factor will indeed drive you nuts finally. To make a long story short I'd go producing each P2's on a single planet, thus being able to produce the right quantity for the P3 factory, then double all these to feed the chain for the P4's. You could make more complicated combo, having some planet producing an excess of a certain p1, exporting it to another planet producing an excess of another P1 and make more P2's on the second planet, but you'll burn out very quickly and try to siege all your planets in a storm of dreads very soon! So basically do you need 8 P2's? Use 8 planets (or 16 to be precise) + 1 factory planet and you'll have your P4 chain working with the minimum effort. This can work with Wetware Mainframes, but could not be working for other P4's, in this case just build your chain according on all the planets who can give you a P2 on their own and then manage the remaining ones at last. At least that's how I would do. EDIT: mmm.... I don't think the links are correct. I would have just linked each single one to the launchpad, in this way it can work as a storage. Alternatively you can link the needed P3's factories to the launchpad to take stuff from there and then link all of em to a single P4 but the P4 fact must be linked again to the launchpad cause it must deliver the shiny baby in there. Link all to LP is just easier since you have no problem with pg (you'll spend bits of it anyway). Consider also that for some reason you could have some cycle interrupted and this will really screw you bad cause you'd have to stop the chain for a certain amount of time and wait for the buffer to be ready and start it again....... too long to explain: link to LP and you'll never regret :) btw: a second LP or a storage for the factory planet is indeed a good idea. I never produced P4's but I see they have a huge volume (100 m3). Since you'll be filling a lot of stuff in it every day (or every 2-3 however) having some extra buffer could help.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.24 23:45:00 - [22] - Quote Okay, seems like that will be the magic number for now then. If it works well, I'll probably up another whole set of P2 planets (24) and allow me to overproduce P2 if need be or just let the extras collect dust when not being used. Thanks for all the help guys.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.25 05:34:00 - [23] - Quote So after, my final bit of playing and research I believe I've found the final setup for what to use. This is more for future reference and other people trying to get into this as I was. The forums and past history helped me a lot, so maybe this will help someone in the future too. I made this plan specifically to minimize traffic and movement and maximize what goes on the planets themselves. Less having to fly to each planet, and more just tending my extractors each day. ALL MY COMMODITY RELATION ARE USING THIS WEBSITE http://picommodityrelations.comyr.com/pi.html The final base requirements: All assuming you have Level 4 skills for PI This is designed for wetware mainframes, but will work with several other P4 productions. (1) Production Planet to import P2 and change it to P4 to be exported http://i.imgur.com/udoh7.png Looking at the picture, you will notice (3) groups. Each one is capable of producing a P4 product. For simplicity reasons, I will refer to each set of 7 as a group. Each group consists of (1) hi-tech processor, and (6) advanced processors for feed. As wetwares require 3 types of P3, and each processor produces half of the requirement, each cycle of the P3 processors will feed for a single P4 cycle (as there are two of each P3 processor). (In all actuality, the three groups is a bit of overkill, but I had the extra CPU/PG so i figured no harm in putting them on) This system will be fed by extractor planets that double as P2 production. I found that it's best to group the planets into 9's, so you can split it up into (9) (18) or (27) extractor/p2 planets. http://i.imgur.com/o0iN3.png Each planet you have to choose specifically that it produces BOTH of the required P1 to create P2. For instance the P2 Construction Blocks requires P1 Base Metal and P1 Heavy metals. The lava planet is the only one capable of producing both. Therefore to do the fast-chain to P2 on a single planet a Lava Planet was needed. The picture above shows a set up where both ECU's mine a different R0. Then each ECU feeds (2) basic processors. Then the (2) P1 products are each combined with their opposite from the other side to go into the Advanced processor. The advanced then pumps out the P2 product and moves it to the launch pad for storage/pickup. ============================================= I apologize that it's kind of a long read, and I did my best to include pictures to show my points. I know that the system will need to be modified per each person's individual needs, but at least this gives a good starting point for others that are trying to get the quick learn for some PI stuff. Hope what I've learned here can help others in the future, ~Sparks
Tomcio FromFarAway Singularity's Edge 145	Posted - 2012.07.25 06:57:00 - [24] - Quote If you are only starting out why not try simple p0->p2 production on each planet. [2x extractor + 6xp1 factories + 3xp2 factories + 1x launch pad] can even add silo for raw materials. This is the easiest PI setup that requires least time investment. Your P4 production will be taking much more time. With 0% taxes you could make about 45mil per day ( 1.350.000.000 per month ) - that is for 2 factory complexes on each planet ( you can make 3 ). With 3 factory complexes you could produce 12-13 pieces per hour ( on one planet ) so that would be even better. It might be even possible to produce 15 if you are in null ( needs more p0 ). Then you could make even 2bil per month. Of course that is for 'good' P2s like Coolant, Enriched Uranium, Rocket Fuel and few more. You can easily diversify your production. I use this setup for single character in lowsec and it takes me about 15minutes per week. 3days cycle. Usually hauling once per week. I tried doing easy P3 on single character ( Robotics ) and it was taking me nearly 4x more time to do with only 12% better profits. Of course your P4 production would be much more profitable ( percentage wise ) but the time investment will also be considerable. You said that you are pvper so I don't think that you wish to spend a lot of time on those things. If you like it, you can always switch to p4 production later. Something to think about : There is a guy, who does this kind of production ( p4 ) on 60 planets spend 2hours per day. All of that in safety of hisec with easy access to trading hubs. Now project it to your situation. Disclaimer : No, I'm not some major P4 producer, who wants to interdict competition.
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.25 07:58:00 - [25] - Quote Quote: If you are only starting out why not try simple p0->p2 production on each planet. once you do it and you have plenty of planets and 0% tax POCO, adding a single planet as a P3-4 factory doesn't give so much stess and more hauling. The produced P2's are to be moved somewhere anyway. Quote: [2x extractor + 6xp1 factories + 3xp2 factories + 1x launch pad] can even add silo for raw materials. honestly, do you really use this setup? I do PI in lowsec and found this just not possible to sustain the production. The problem though is not where you do your PI but your skills. Having them at 4 like all the "normal ones" will give you 21.315/17.000 to use. Now: 2 ECU = 2x (400/2.600) 6 BIF (Basic Indy....) = 6x (200/800) 3 AIF = 3x (500/700) LP = 3.600/700 TOT = 3.860/12.800 (not counting links and routes) Not a problem for the cpu, but you'll have only 4.200 pg for your extractors and they need 550 each, so you could only have 7 heads drilling your 2 different P0's. Is it enough? To feed 3 BIF you want 18k units per hr, or 432.000 per day. If you use 2 BIF you'd only need 12k/hr or 288k/day, but you could be using more extractors cause you'll have 2300 pg more (6500 total, meaning 11 heads to spread). This mean you'd need 3 heads extracting 18k/hr of stuff using your setup. Afaik that's just no way, it's already hard to let 3 of em extracting 12k and I mean almost impossible. Imho the 6BIF/3AIF setup is just not efficient and not profitable at all. If you have PI skills at 5 that changes everything.
Tomcio FromFarAway Singularity's Edge 145	Posted - 2012.07.25 08:36:00 - [26] - Quote Haffsol wrote: once you do it and you have plenty of planets and 0% tax POCO, adding a single planet as a P3-4 factory doesn't give so much stess and more hauling. The produced P2's are to be moved somewhere anyway. But isn't there a problem with hauling? I did this for single P3 and I needed to haul all materials daily. Is it different for P4? With my setup I haul once per week. Haffsol wrote: honestly, do you really use this setup? I do PI in lowsec and found this just not possible to sustain the production. Yes I use it on one planet ( other planets are 4x2x setups for now ). It is producing 12-12.5 per hour ( 6x extractor heads total ). With level 5 skills I could get max efficiency ( more heads ). The thing is the planet itself is one of the best I found in lowsec ( I found even better planets in null so this setup should give max efficiency with level 4 skills ).
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.25 10:09:00 - [27] - Quote Quote: But isn't there a problem with hauling? no if you make your chain work..... as intended, meaning that all the P0's are reprocessed into P1 and the P1's into P2's. Which basically means that you have to extract the right amount of P0's to feed the number of P1 installed since the P2's are perfectly chained to the P2's by the 2:1 ratio of P1:P2 factories (2 BIF will sustain exactly 1 AIF). This way you'll have quite some time before filling up your 10k m3 Launchpad. Assuming perfection you'll produce 10 P2 units per hr or 240 per day, since their volume is 7.5 m3 it makes 1.800 m3 per day. You'll take 5 days and 12 hrs to fill up your LP with 2 AIF. If you have 3 AIF it makes 2.700 m3 per day, and 3 days and 17hrs to fill up your LP. The problem is: if you produce less than the minimum to "keep the chain alive" you should have some waste meaning some cycles that eats the incoming resources without giving anything back at the end of the cycle. I can't be totally sure of it (and I don't wanna check) but It should work this way: let's say you have 15k/hr P0 extraction rate and 3 BIF. Both ECU and BIF work on a 30 min cycle, so ECU delivers 7.500 units per 30 mins (well that's not true but it's just an example), BIF-1 will eat his 3.000, BIF-2 will eat his 3.000, BIF-3 will eat his.... damn only 1.500...... the cycle goes on till the end but BIF-3 will not deliver anything and you have lost those 1.500. In practice it could be more complicated than that but I'll let you figure out why. Having only 2 BIF will leave you an excess of P0, so your LP will be full earlier than said 5-ish days, but you could like to stop your extraction from time to time ( or just reduce it) in order to avoid the depletion factor which is a real pain in the a. That being said I would check your production chain. It looks like you have some waste somewhere if you haul only once per week :) ..... unless you have storages. What I mean is that overkill doesn't work well with PI. You just have to make it flawless and possibly with the minimum effort. Hauling every 2-3 days in null where you have SOV is not such a big deal.
Tomcio FromFarAway Singularity's Edge 145	Posted - 2012.07.25 10:38:00 - [28] - Quote Haffsol wrote: Assuming perfection you'll produce 10 P2 units per hr or 240 per day, since their volume is 7.5 m3 it makes 1.800 m3 per day. You'll take 5 days and 12 hrs to fill up your LP with 2 AIF. If you have 3 AIF it makes 2.700 m3 per day, and 3 days and 17hrs to fill up your LP. P2 takes 1.5m3 not 7.5m3. My daily production on single planet ( 2xAIF ) takes 360m3 of my LP capacity ( 240 units - maximum with 2xAIFs ). My triple AIF planet produces around 290-300 ( ~450m3 ). When I haul once in a week I have my LP filled in about 20-30%. On my 3xAIF planet I even route raw material to the same LP because there is enough room here ( don't need silos ). I get exactly 6720 P2s ( per week ) from my four 2xAIFs plantes ( that is the maximum ). ~2000 P2s from my 3xAIFs planet ( per week ). I don't have any wastage. All 2xAIF planets are operating on maximum efficiency ( 3xaif planet varies from day to day of course ). I'm able to haul everything in two runs using Prowler ( once per week ).
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 7	Posted - 2012.07.25 10:50:00 - [29] - Quote oh ok I'm probably wrong on the volume thing, I don't have my planets handy now, but I was reading that Quote: One processed batch turns a combined 30.4 m-¦ of two P1 materials into 7.5 m-¦ of a P2 material and didn't get it was talking about "batch" and not unit. So since each batch is made of 5 units, there it is the 1.5 m3 you were saying. Cool, no production loss for you and lots of time to fill up the LP :)
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.26 21:31:00 - [30] - Quote Under the setup I am using, I will more than likely have some excess, but I'm not looking for perfect efficiency. I am setting up a system for "most efficient to least amount of hauling". And I am, for the most part, just producing P2 product. However, the factory planet (P2-P4) as you can see in the picture ONLY converts P2-P4, and it has 2 launchpads worth of dumping. In all actuality, I'm probably going to drop the third factory part and add more storage facilities/launchpads. That planet is in my "home" system right next to my main station. And as far as P2 goes, it's always going to be more M3 than a batch of P4. I'm looking for "least hauling" and the system doesn't add any extra steps. I would either be hauling all my p2 to my main station, or I can just go to the planet instead. I let the process run its course and I end up with the more valuable P4 product which in total will take up significantly less hauling space. The P4 product also has good demand as one of the indy corps needs the parts to put into POS making stuffs, and if that doesn't work, I can send a much more "comrpessed" product to Jita. Transportation out of my pocket is a hassle, so I have to make the most per load. The return on the P4 product would be quicker than the P4, but I still believe my system will allow me to have a good average return with less hauling to do it. ~Sparks
Styth spiting Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate 36	Posted - 2012.07.27 06:14:00 - [31] - Quote Do NOT import P3 into a P4 factory planet unless you are dealing with a 0% tax rate. P3 has the worst tax rates of any PI mat. You will also be wasting resources on your mat planets trying to build P3 while extracting mats that your overall yield will be awful. The only time you should ever bother with P3 manufacturing is for fuel or selling of P3, never import it. Example: 18 P3 to make 1 P4. Export of p3, import of p3 costs: 189,000 120 P2 to make 18 P4: Export P2, import P2: 54,900 1,920 P1 to make 120 P2: Export P1, import P1: 48,050 As you can see using a P1 factory planet will save you 140,950isk PER p4, which is over 10% or more for each P4 item. Or if you are making a control tower for example it's a savings of 25,371,000, which again is about 10%. Also by only doing P1 (or at times P2 if it dosen't affect your yield) will increase your daily yield by a huge margin. From my experience of trying to do P3 single plant manufacturing I am making well over double the yield doing single planet P1. There is also no way you would keep a p3 to p4 factory planet running 24/7. You would need almost 8000 P3 per day. For maximum yield, least amount of tax payout have your planets manufacture P1 goods. Export and import these into a factory planet. The factory plant should be able to handle all the conversion of P1 to P4 and yield 22 P4 per 24 hour cycle. 5 planets can fuel 1 factory planet so you would be best off with 25 material planets, 5 factory. This is my current setup using 60 planets (10 are factory) which yields roughly 250 P4 mats per day.
Sparky11080 Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.07.27 16:24:00 - [32] - Quote I appreciate the heads up, and it will be good for other people reading this thread. However, I said it early on, there is no tax for me where I will be operating, so everything I get and make is 100% profit. Also there will be no P3 being moved between planets in my operation. 18 Planets - Extracting R0 -> Converting to P1 -> Converting to P2 -> Export P2 Product (Transport P2 Product) 1 Planet - Import P2 Product -> Covert to P3 -> Convert to P4 -> Export P4 Product (Transport P4 Product) (Sell) Minimum amount of transfer as the P2->P4 planet will fill up extremely slowly. And the other planets will be on opposite cycles so they each fill up on opposite ends of the week.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 93	Posted - 2012.07.27 16:58:00 - [33] - Quote Sparky11080 wrote: Minimum amount of transfer as the P2->P4 planet will fill up extremely slowly. And the other planets will be on opposite cycles so they each fill up on opposite ends of the week. Remember to empty your space ports of P4 every 100 hours or so. That's when they fill up. Your maximum P4 factory planet run time is 100 hours unless you reroute the output to a Silo or another Port. Do not route both/all P4 factory outputs to the same port, that just makes the problem worse. Drox

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