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Level in low sec - i dont understand

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HORRIBLE AIDS	Posted - 2010.08.16 16:45:00 - [1] I just can't understand why anyone would do this. There are decent, actaully great level 4 quality missions in high sec. So what am I missing here, why would someone do this. What systems provides level 4 missions in low sec or 0.0. I would just think the risk is way worse than any better lp or mission reward but maybe Im wrong can someone explain this to me and point me in that direction as far as low sec or 0.0 level 4s.
Ansol Gallente Origin Synthetic Industries	Posted - 2010.08.16 17:13:00 - [2] I don't imagine anyone runs L4s in lowsec (or at least many). It's mostly L5s that people would go for. The dead remember our silence, The dead remember our indifference.
Mar Lee An Army of None	Posted - 2010.08.16 17:17:00 - [3] Yeah, the answer to your question is 'they don't'. Lowsec is for level 5s and factional warfare missions. If you're asking because you ran across someone doing level 4 missions in lowsec, that someone is not very bright. That's all.
HORRIBLE AIDS	Posted - 2010.08.16 17:25:00 - [4] ok i figured this much but when i ran accross one the other day it left me in a state of awe...
Sazuka Kirr Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.08.16 18:19:00 - [5] I run L4's in lowsec and 0.0. Better LP rewards. I think the top LP I've had from the 0.0 agent was 12.5k.
Lana Saxington Devine Entity	Posted - 2010.08.16 19:01:00 - [6] Actually, running level 4's and up have become increasingly popular in low/null sec since people started discovering that certain ships can become unscannable if fit properly. For example, a Tengu can easily pull off being unscannable while also having a very competent mission fit. The only thing that you need to look out for is going through gates and undocking, but scouts and insta-undock points basically nullify those risks ____ If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.16 19:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Lana Saxington Actually, running level 4's and up have become increasingly popular in low/null sec since people started discovering that certain ships can become unscannable if fit properly. For example, a Tengu can easily pull off being unscannable while also having a very competent mission fit. The only thing that you need to look out for is going through gates and undocking, but scouts and insta-undock points basically nullify those risks True, but there are additional drawbacks: * reduced tank (to fit the eccm modules) * reduced firepower (you normally have to use T1 missiles since T2 fury increases your sig, plus lowslot sensor boosting modules) * reduced training rate due to using sig/sensor boosting implants (+2 or +3 Talon implants versus +4 or +5 attribute implants) * lower quality/cheaper implants. +5s and +5%s can cost more than the Tengu itself if you were to get podded. So you'll lose a bit of firepower due to using cheaper skillwires. * restricted supply chain (but can be mitigated with personal blueprints, especially since you're probably not using T2 ammo.) * selling loot is a bit more difficult due to the logistics involved * tunnel carpal from spamming the scanner button. * angel rats can target paint you which will increase your sig * you can still wind up in PvP with a PvE fit despite your best precautions * NPC rats won't pod you if you manage to lose your ship, but players will. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Tira 0'TooIe	Posted - 2010.08.16 20:10:00 - [8] Originally by: stoicfaux list 'o stuff wrong. two conjuctive ladar eccm mods and the two relevant subsystems on my loki and i'm unscannable. so no need for directional spamming, implants, etc.
Sazuka Kirr Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.08.16 20:41:00 - [9] Originally by: stoicfaux * reduced tank (to fit the eccm modules) I have yet to come across a L4 mission that I can't tank and I'm losing 2x mid-slots due to ECCM. If people are having trouble tanking theirs ships, it's likely due to poor skills or a silly fit. Quote: * reduced firepower (you normally have to use T1 missiles since T2 fury increases your sig, plus lowslot sensor boosting modules) Not being able to use Fury is a shame, but fitting 3x BCU instead of 4x isn't much of a loss. Quote: * reduced training rate due to using sig/sensor boosting implants (+2 or +3 Talon implants versus +4 or +5 attribute implants) I've got +4's plugged in. I could switch to a HG Talon and then drop an ECCM, but I don't know what I'd replace it with. Maybe a target painter? Quote: * lower quality/cheaper implants. +5s and +5%s can cost more than the Tengu itself if you were to get podded. So you'll lose a bit of firepower due to using cheaper skillwires. How are you meant to get yourself podded? Sure, it might happen in null-sec if you're a moron, but it should never happen in low-sec. Using a scout or the Cloak + MWD trick will get you out of 99.5% of sticky situations. Actually, given my record, it's gotten me out of 100%. Quote: * restricted supply chain (but can be mitigated with personal blueprints, especially since you're probably not using T2 ammo.) A blockade runner solves all these problems. Quote: * selling loot is a bit more difficult due to the logistics involved If you're running missions in low-sec or null-sec, you'll likely be doing it for the extra LP, so you'll want to blitz missions. If you're stopping to loot and salvage missions, you're doing it wrong. If you're not in it for the LP, you may as well move back to high-sec. Quote: * tunnel carpal from spamming the scanner button. Don't see why you'd need to do that in an unprobable ship. Quote: * angel rats can target paint you which will increase your sig Most of the mission reports on EVE Survival will tell you which rats target paint so you'll know who to shoot first. Quote: * you can still wind up in PvP with a PvE fit despite your best precautions Still waiting for this ... Quote: * NPC rats won't pod you if you manage to lose your ship, but players will. ... and this!
RentableMuffin	Posted - 2010.08.16 21:11:00 - [10] because being in a lowsec station with like 4 q20 agents sucks amirite? unscan t3 + unscan stealth bomber or another t3 with cloak or hell just use a regular ship and be blue with the locals
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.16 21:43:00 - [11] Carebears use pimpboats that aren't gimped by "unscannable" fit, and blitz missions in a fraction of the time it takes to do a lowsec mission in unscannable tengu (locki and other t3s are considerably less efficient pve). Another thing is gatecamps. Post Tyrannis, you get sent further, which means more gates to pass through. Finally, nearly all of those supposedly "unscannable" fits floating out there can actually be scanned down quite efficiently using high skills plus a full set of sisters implants. It's just that before, pirates have no reason to jump through hoops for those implants. A few have started exploiting them, with interesting results, expect more to come.
King Rothgar Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.08.16 23:08:00 - [12] There are some who run normal low sec lvl4's. It is worth noting that these players control the space the agent is in. They are blue with all the locals within a few jumps. They have intel channels and know if any neutral or hostile comes anywhere near their system or the system they are going to. It's actually pretty safe, if you are in that controlling coalition. Obviously lvl5's are the real prize but most people can't solo those, so they do lvl4's while waiting for a group to run them with. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig.
Mister Agreeable	Posted - 2010.08.17 01:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Goose99 Finally, nearly all of those supposedly "unscannable" fits floating out there can actually be scanned down quite efficiently using high skills plus a full set of sisters implants. If sensor strength:sig radius 1.08+:1, no
Mister Agreeable	Posted - 2010.08.17 02:36:00 - [14] Originally by: RentableMuffin because being in a lowsec station with like 4 q20 agents sucks amirite? unscan t3 + unscan stealth bomber or another t3 with cloak or hell just use a regular ship and be blue with the locals Yeah that does suck indeed. 2 faction gankboats running separate missions in deep highsec 0.5 system > T3+SB in lowsec
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.17 03:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Sazuka Kirr I have yet to come across a L4 mission that I can't tank and I'm losing 2x mid-slots due to ECCM. If people are having trouble tanking theirs ships, it's likely due to poor skills or a silly fit. Not being able to use Fury is a shame, but fitting 3x BCU instead of 4x isn't much of a loss. Not using Fury is a 20% loss in DPS. That's pretty non-trivial. Quote: I've got +4's plugged in. I could switch to a HG Talon and then drop an ECCM, but I don't know what I'd replace it with. Maybe a target painter? Keep the ECCM and use Fury missiles. Quote: How are you meant to get yourself podded? Sure, it might happen in null-sec if you're a moron, but it should never happen in low-sec. Using a scout or the Cloak + MWD trick will get you out of 99.5% of sticky situations. Actually, given my record, it's gotten me out of 100%. A cloak on a Tengu reduces tank and/or firepower. (A seven high slot Tengu loses a mid. The covert ops module reduces firepower.) Using an alt for a scout means you're not using the alt for extra firepower in the mission. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Sazuka Kirr Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.08.17 11:21:00 - [16] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Sazuka Kirr I have yet to come across a L4 mission that I can't tank and I'm losing 2x mid-slots due to ECCM. If people are having trouble tanking theirs ships, it's likely due to poor skills or a silly fit. Not being able to use Fury is a shame, but fitting 3x BCU instead of 4x isn't much of a loss. Not using Fury is a 20% loss in DPS. That's pretty non-trivial. Not really. Assuming All Level V skills, with the exception of Heavy Missile Specialisation V, my fit would get 506 DPS w/ with T2 HMLs and T1 Missiles. But I use CN HMLs, which boosts my DPS up to 534. If I really wanted to squeeze as much DPS out of my ship as possible, I'd fit 3x T2 HMLs w/ T2 missiles and 3x CN HMLs w/ T1 missiles, which would give me 591 DPS. I don't do this since I've got a Stealth Bomber dealing up to and over 500 DPS to hit the Battleships and Battlecruisers, so I keep the low explosion radius of T1 missiles to deal with Frigates and Cruisers with the Tengu. Compare that to a full rack of T2 missiles and I end up with 648 DPS. Therefore, using my current Tengu, I'm losing 17.6% of my theoretical DPS, likely much higher than this in practice due to the high explosion radius of the missiles. Compared to what I could potentially deal with my Tengu, were it to fit a mix of T2 and CN HMLs and load a mix of T1 and T2 ammo, I'd only be losing 8.8% of my theoretical DPS.
Dark Drifter Amarr Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.17 13:56:00 - [17] Quote: True, but there are additional drawbacks: * reduced tank (to fit the eccm modules) * reduced firepower (you normally have to use T1 missiles since T2 fury increases your sig, plus lowslot sensor boosting modules) * reduced training rate due to using sig/sensor boosting implants (+2 or +3 Talon implants versus +4 or +5 attribute implants) * lower quality/cheaper implants. +5s and +5%s can cost more than the Tengu itself if you were to get podded. So you'll lose a bit of firepower due to using cheaper skillwires. * restricted supply chain (but can be mitigated with personal blueprints, especially since you're probably not using T2 ammo.) * selling loot is a bit more difficult due to the logistics involved * tunnel carpal from spamming the scanner button. * angel rats can target paint you which will increase your sig * you can still wind up in PvP with a PvE fit despite your best precautions * NPC rats won't pod you if you manage to lose your ship, but players will. . . . . . grow a set will u . . . . . to our departed friend EDD "april 09" fly true man
Cyniac	Posted - 2010.08.17 14:25:00 - [18] Before Tyranis I used to run a lot of lowsec courier missions - profitable even with low skills and a great way to raise standings too. These days they are just meh though.

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