from what I see suicide ganking most people works exactly like that. luckily some people make themselves targets by carrying tons of phat loots. However miners are on the other side of that ratio, the profit aspect isn't exactly there but the lulz:isk outweighs it. I've always lulzed when ganking a hulk but tbh it was always rather easy targets. personally I would have boosted hulk hull hp and increased cargo expander hp penalty to give miners a choice, put em up to 40-50k ehp when fully buffer tanked.

adapt or leave

Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

If in a different security, different engagement rules and irrelevant to the situation being discussed.
If the frigates were able to trick the proteus into engaging then the proteus chose to engage and irrelevant to the situation being discussed.

Tell them about how Concord actually works against them for these suicide ganks.

Soundwave just said that he wanted to make sure Suicide Gankers have to pay more than their prey loses. Pointing out that that is silly is perfectly valid.

Is the Active tanked Tengu up next for a buff? It can be one volleyd by a 70m Tornado when it's hull+subs cost at least 300m.

As to your comparison, how does the EHP of an purely active tengu compare to a purely active tanked hulk?

The EHP on a purely active Tengu coming through a Gate is low enough that it can be single shotted by a Nado on the gate. The Hulk doesn't have any reason to fit an active tank in HS, and even if it did, it would have some 27k EHP, more than enough to survive 2 shots from a Nado.

There is still quite a bit of room for interpretation. When I read it I took it as hull for hull, not counting variables including fit and cargo. But as I said before, I could be mistaken.

It shouldn't (and doesn't even in the hulk's case with similar costing ships). Your illustration proves that. Maybe what we have is more of a response to the social evolution of the game then.

I fail to see how that's MY problem.

Dec every hi-sec corp.

This change means cheaper minerals for me, which = cheaper cap fleets.

~deal with it~

Let me clarify, in this case it would be the potential reward of the gank based on the hull alone, not the cost. In the case of T2 salvage this can set a high bar for exhumers.

All that aside I do wish the hulk had actually been left alone base HP wise and the focus shifted abit to just enhancing fittings. would be much more interesting IMHO.

Yep grab the tear bucket & start collectingthe delicious lazy gankers tears lil' piggies

From what I understand from another thread, it's Sig Radius is decreasing to an almost Frigate size.

any plans for goons to raise rewards for hulkageddon in order to somewhat bankroll bigger ships to continue ganking miners?

Ok, not decreasing. Staying the same. Aren't 100k EHP Frigates a wonderful idea?

Oh, did you notice? What could be wrong with blowing ships worth 400 million (and a couple weeks of casual mining) with ships worth 1.5 million and which the NPE hands out for free?

I'm waiting now for you to check how much it costs to blow a mission runner ship worth 2+ billion ISK (and a couple months of casual mission runing).

Why is it okay for gankers to tell miners that we should bring 'moar tank,' but when miners tell gankers to bring 'moar dps' they're somehow out of line?

yeah because a destroyer destroying a t2 ship worth close to 300m in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? ok.

Cost is not a balancing factor. The worth or value of a ship's modules is utterly irrelevant.
Soundwave repeating the mistakes of old and forgetting this very simple and perennially true fact is thoroughly heart-rending.

I disagree. I had to do a lot to get my hulk. A heck of a lot more than people have to do to get destroyers.

So increasing the EHP on Exhumers killed EVE?

*dies laughing*

Richard Desturned Troll is best troll.

How can it be dumping down the game, when they make it harder for the gankers?

The following combat ships require at least one fitting mod.
Arty Cane
Every Logistics ship Ever.
Hellcats (that T2 Elutrition rig? That's a fitting mod)
100mn Tengus (Officer Fitting mods, even).
Stealth Bombers
Fleet Dictors
AHACs (Zealots need their RCU)
Sniper HACs

You haven't flown many combat ships, have you?

Unless you've been staring over my shoulder watching how/when/where I mine, you can't answer that question, so stop putting words in my mouth.

And no, no one has ever successfuly ganked me.

Soundwave didn't say that.

If you find a shuttle full of PLEXes or freighter full of officer mods go ahead and do whatever you want. If they're stupid enough to haul those they really deserve to lose it. How much is salvage worth? Not much. Most of your profit comes from items dropped from cargohold.

Ganking a Hulk and getting 25M worth of salvage from wreck is different story.

Or just go shoot people in lowsec/nullsec/wormhole. Very good chance that some of them might shoot back.

A) Can you provide ANY other case where a destroyer can suicide gank a ship of similar value besides a hulk? The "gank balance" on the current hulk is horribly out of wack, even when using 3 destroyers to kill a tanked hulk. Look at the values of some other common ganked ships. Pimped marauders, pimped faction BSes, freighters, orcas, industrials. Compared to the hull price these ship types require quite a bit of damage from several ships to be taken down with the exception of the indies which in most cases have a hull value less than a single destroyer.

By this logic it should only take maybe 6-8 destroyers at most to kill an orca but even an untanked orca should be able to shrug that off.

B) Ship balance is a concept and not a physical object, it cannot be thrown anywhere.

And now the other mining ships will be worth using again depending on differing circumstances. Sounds like more options and flexibility to the players.

Wasnt that same as when CCP gave gankers tier3 on silver plate?

Tier-3s came with inherent (and significant) drawbacks to compensate for the advantages they provide, which is why they aren't all that popular for ganking.

So no. It's not quite the same.

Bring more dps.

Crazy idea, but why not go find challenging targets to shoot? You know, maybe those that are allowed to be fitted with guns? Or maybe haulers with tasty loots? When it takes 6 destroyers to take out a miner, I don't think there will be much support for the whiner. They surely wont have my support (not that it means much; I am just one EVE player).

So you are admiting that the ganking will stil be going with dessies. Why are you so concern about new tank for miners?

words

I've heard Pilgrim is quite good for exploration.

In both cases, more effort is required than ganking a Hulk with a catalyst on a disposable alt.

I don't know. You should ask from Ishtar pilots because it's more afk friendly than Pilgrim.

I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human.

So risk free, high profit is best for the game?

this!

Ganking as a whole is broken and a mindless mongoloid idiot activity.

I noticed you neglected my reply, so I shall repeat:

Its negligible to mineral prices. They might spike for a week due to market speculators but your ganking doesn't really affect them.

On the other hand, for the minors that due get ganked, the lack of ehp on these ships is a huge issue. Maybe the macks tank is a little overboard, but beforehand they were battleship-sized frigates. You just couldn't tank them effectively without all lvl V's and a boosting orca.

I am just guessing here, but I am willing to bet they chose this route to avoid "Creative" use of said Exhumers. Giving them more slots to fit a tank or more yield may have other implications (using one for tackle?). Just a guess, nothing more.

There is still plenty of room for that balance. Its just the buff to there raw stats is so huge that you can't see it. Perhaps CCPs new vision for mining barges is for the average exhumer to have 50K+ ehp. Maybe they see what I do, which is a reason to use them in more dangerous space. I know I'd be a lot more willing to mine in low if I knew I could survive long enough to for my corpies to come help if I got jumped, instead of popping like a wet tissue (which honestly, if you jumped into a mining op wouldn't you primary the hulks?)

My guess is this is the first step towards a total rebalance of industry and an attempt to push people out of empire. Its the same with alchemy, don't bite there heads off until we see the whole picture...

words

ORE is in the business of making isk and responding tot he needs of their customers. Any corporation that doesn't respond to their customers' needs will eventually find a competitor doing it for them and will soon find themselves out of business.

The customers of ORE would have demanded more sturdy mining vessels to protect their operations after rampant ganking. ORE has responded as any business would. It made their customers happy.

Mining barge buff makes perfect sense.

Thousands of years in the future, in an age of nanobot upgrades? Makes perfect sense, actually.

Yet we are presented with those LOL YOU MUST HAVE 32 K EHP OR YOU PLAY WRONG LOL fittings and they use a MAPC. End of MLU.

In the meanwhile I don't recall EVER having had to fit a MLU in any of my other PvP or PvE ships. And I have loads.

Sorry I meant MAPC.

False, they're not invulnerable and you can still use same mechanics to gank them.

Then the answer is the same your ilk has always given to everybody else: adapt or quit.

Yesterday in Sirseshin, several times.

The day every null sec player is not aloud by any means starting by NPC or Alt corporations to have full industrial organisations in high sec, mission corporations, shipping corporations, trading alts, High sec research/invention POS's and more funky stuff, then yep it will be time to change high sec.
But as far as every major null alliance has hundreds/thousands of those in high sec and don't stop crying about high sec they will always be laughed at for not being serious for one second.

but not unfairly expensive..considering the price of the target. Belly up to the bar if you want to drink otherwise move on.

An untanked T1 battle crusier will have nearly double the tank of an untanked T2 hulk... seems fine to me.

No, because the DCU does not enable fitting shield mods to get to those conservative 30k EHP. The MAPC does.

Bot argument is a false argument and goes against and makes fools of gankers rather than suit their arguments.

... an useless brick. May as well fit lasers on a damnation.

The efforts against bots come in the form of banning bots. Also it's entirely possible and probable that a number of non-botting players will take advantage of these changes. Despite their presence, bot are a non issue in this argument.

No, local should removed from every sec because it gives more free intel than WoW will ever give in their game.

what?! what are you pretending now? I want local removed in null sec because it should never be used as free intel against the cloaked.. this has nothing what so ever to do with bots, the use of which is against the rules. There are some who shout about AFK cloakers (as if they are problems).. that wouldn't be people who want local removed.

I'm sure you can mine in null and for much higher isk/h then high sec, yes the risk is higher but that's not the real problem.
This doesn't stop mining bots from mining in null and *swift* kiss the POS, how bigger is the risk then?

Again, low risk low income, pick your 100kEHP skiff put it in the high sec belt and do your homework, your accountability or your nex book whatever crap you want to do. Some people just mine in groups and have fun on coms while doing some other stuff, what are you proposing to this people?
-you're saying they should not play the game?-unless you pay their sub you have nothing to say about this
-you say they play badly the game they pay for? -how much does this affect you and if really does that much, pick a couple ships and go gank them, problem solved.


And I really think the cost for killing those new mining barges is not a problem for goonswarm, PL, -A-, RA whatever, does it?

Why are you one of those terribles who fit a plate in their Drake or Raven lows?

Peh no need for that, I'm sure it's easy to find cap stable permanent MWD drake fits with a single cheapo hardwiring and absolutely nothing faction fitted, look at your KB's, I can see one from here

Yeah Drakes are known for being the weakest ship in game, the one bound to all sorts of sacrifices and compromises.

Ho c'mon Richard, you know you get 500dps from 0 to 80km+ and over 80K EHP from that stuff in fleets, it's more than decent dps for BC size with Battleship EHP.
Just see those new mining barges like drakes, low dps, high EHP

Many of us have Exhumer alts - Hulks that are speed fit and designed to passively scan other Exhumers, and then bring in the team, all while mining.

+1% PG Hardwiring, missile skills up to 5 and if you add the right command ship increases dps above this. If you use the other one then it's 5% shield resists p/lvl thus increasing tank. Again I can see it from here in those KB's

You forgot Lokis and Tengus!

This will happen the day you show me that mythical 30k EHP Mack that got 10k cargo size and mines like a pro.

On an unrelated note, since you guys preach how this is a TEAM GAME then why would a Drake in your blobfest have to fit point and web? Don't you bring in flocks of Rifters for that?

the link does not work...

No, the problem is when tradeoffs for categories of ships are smoothly selectable and still let them fill their role. I would flat out refuse to fly a minmatar ship without a single gyrostab (unless it was pure bait, you know all ships except miners are nicely multi-role and some even multi-tanking philosophy).

On the opposite side there's mining ships who can't fit the corresponding booster (what in a combat ship is gyrostab / BCU etc) without such harsh drop in tank that makes them crap. Too much black and white.

So, a tradeoff among the tradeoffs has to be found.

fit doesn't work with t2 high slots.

All V skills requirement check (it's usually the first sign it's a troll).
Exotic implants check
FC with Tengu booster check
Additional fleet Orca boost check
Abysmal mining capability check

and which of your fleet doctrines use t1 guns because of fitting requirements?
sacrificing ihus for tank isn't a problem, high slots really should not be subject to the same absurdity because i'll wager the answer to my above question is none. (yes you may have alternative t1 fittings for low sp players, that's not the same thing though)

That's not a compromise that's a neutering.

Sorry hi sec has no blob tards bringing more than 10 ships and that's speaking of quite large hi sec mining fleets already.

i'll stop making dumb comparisons when you stop posting dumb fits.

Admit the only reason you care is this will lessen the demand for tech

no, because it doesn't even attempt to have a half decent yield let alone a max yield. ****, i'm somewhat surprised that it actually had both harvesters.

So what you are saying is that we need a short range higher yield ice miner to allow an alternative like amarr BS have?

no, what you presented wasn't a choice, it was pretty much evidence if you want a tank you sacrifice the entire purpose of the ship.

let's go back to the mwd drake, to get it cap stable do you give up t2 launchers? no, you don't because it's a combat ship who's most valuable assets are it's guns.

on a similar note, to tank a mining ship you wouldn't give up your t2 ice harvesters, you'd give up the ihus like the drake would downsize to meta 4 shield extenders if it was a fitting issue, or you'd drop a ballistic control unit for a capacitor thing if you were lacking cap stability.

it wouldn't be acceptable for a combat ship to lose it's t2 guns, so why should it be acceptable for a mining ship to lose it's t2 high slots?

much better, perfectly acceptable fitting. there's no way 2k ehp is worth downsizing to t1 harvesters.

edit: now how about one for some one that doesn't have 4 accounts for boosters?

Sort of like 0.0? It is not like you need to gimp your ISK/h in 0.0/lowsec, just to avoid risk in lowsec/null. Even lvl4ing Raven doesn't need to do that. And it is not like the hulks will became ungankable...

it's not, because downsizing guns drops the dps but increases the tracking etc. you don't gain anything for downsizing mining high slots. ninja edit: hurricane uses projectiles so it's optimal as well as tracking if med projectiles work like small projectiles.

so, realistically you're getting what, 24k ehp from a mack with fitting implants and not gimping your yield to oblivion. that's reasonable i suppose.

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

"miners don't use orcas"

a thing vv, noted expert on miners, believes

IMHO the devs do not think of it as emergent game play but rather exploitive game play. Nice try though with an attempt to define it in preferable terms.

In order to show splashy numbers you put everything in your EFT theorycraft book, anyway, no?

There's max 2-3 Orcas in a ice system with 100 in local and they have 3-4 ships around. Ah, when I was there one of those Orcas was mine.

Besides... CCP was worried about lack of mining/miners, so they buff miners by giving them stronger ships, so they could go for full yield without worrying about destroyer ganks - that isn't unreasonable way to boost them at all.

The dedicated Tengu PLUS Orca were in the screen shot, they cost somewhat more than 50M

One where once you pulled the trigger you knew you had everything covered and would make out like a bandit.

Because L4 mission runners and PI players or hi sec anom farmers need to rabidly watch the client and squeeze out their eyes on local...

Local really doesn't help in highsec vs random gankers.

Local really doesn't help in highsec vs random gankers.

Tbh, unfair comparison, because in 0.0, when I carebear I have at very least 30 seconds warning, in realistic scenarios many many minutes. In fact I am doing a complex right now as I am typing this, and I really cannot see myself dying.

That would be an active miner. In my example I am refering to a bot miner. When you are ganking a miner you can determine if the target is a bot. If it is you have all day to plan the perfect gank and get away with profit. In my example I was also refering to being hired to kill this bot. Now it will cost the ganker more in ships to do it kill the bot after Aug 8th. But it is still just sitting there waiting to be killed and you still get all the salvage.

Killing an active miner is more problemattic and should be more costly to do.

That's the setup I use(d), (I also produce Orcas and all their mods...) but I don't arrogate myself to impose such expensive setup on other players who could as well be new-ish or without the means to get all that bling including a command ship.

See I can see competitive tournament PvP games being purely balanced on the top of the top of the elite with the best gear and skills and using Naga / Sensei peripherals with special pads and so on.

But not a generalistic MMO and much less one where they are striving to finally improve new players experience.
What are going to do those without the mythical "all V skills" that today struggle going above 10K EHP? Be told to suck it up and return to the game in 1 year and after they purchased Orca + alt?

57 days ahahahah.

except there are very few people in null that give a flying **** about industry

I personally don't, but the ISDs in the rookie chats do. So what? File a lawsuit against them?

i don't think xxxdeathxxx cares about anything tbh...

That's why we should have Goon ISDs!

True, only a measly 70% of the price of a Hulk is from Technetium

So you want to freely shoot Exhumers that have no guns to shoot back with, and are upset that when you steal from a wreck that someone else can shoot you?

you guys that bored cuss you won 0.0?

how about you break the circle jerk and have some fun with your "allies"

They are supposed to cost more to gank than they cost to replace when fitted for their role.

Wow what an over statement.

Poor choice of words. The ganker is not supposed to be able to profit from killing miners when fitted for their role.
They are not war ships never intended to be war ships. But after this change I can see them getting used for some war ship type roles. Again unintended for EVE but then that never stopped most of the posters in this thread.

i dunno maybe wardecs?

you know this happens to peeps running annoms in 0.0 all the time (afk thing getting ganked)

or are you also trying to stealth suggest that annoms in 0.0 are also risk free?

yes and guess what this char is used for?!?!?

avoiding wars by beign in an npc corp so i can haul stuff to my low sec waypoint and use my thanny to move stuff to 0.0 for me... plus he is also a cyno alt...

hey i am going to use the feature as long as its here...

i am just saying its stupid and should be removed...

risk free is silly if you ask me...

moongoo botters

it is effortless once you own the system only thing you need to do is set up a pos start the proces after that it is only a question of refueling and empty the storage bins so don't give me that crap that moongoo is hard work and involves hours upon hours of boring yourself to death watching the lights on your pos
well i am pretty pissed off at any of your nullsec wankers , death sick of your comments how people should play your game all the while you cry and whine about anything that has the remote chance of pulling down your own little carebear sandcastle

Not really. Few thousand supercaps / moon should do the trick.

Insurance fraud was taken away not because of hi sec kills but because, like boomerang, it started being used in an heavily mass, industrialized way. You can find on MD the guy (Cosmoray) who made 100B+ by manufacturing thousands of battleships and exploding them.

He started a trend, with a NPC endless ISK faucet, he posted about it and how to do it and then nobody would stop what was basically legal ISK duping. CCP intervened and removed it.

Same for boomerang, for years it was used with a brain and not spammed on the forums and CCP let it go. Then a very intelligent guy started talking about it on GD and made tutorials so droves of emulators started doing it. CCP intervened and removed it.

Same for orca ships "saving". Once again, tolerated for a long time till somebody "smart" decided to make it very public and spammable by every ganker. CCP intervened and removed it.


Don't blame hi seccer targets for the grave hi seccer gankers dug by themselves.

Yes EvE actions will have consequences. How bad, eh?

Waaa waaaaa were going to have a harder time ganking like the l33t pvpers waaaaaaa. Wanna kill people? Go to lowsec or nullsec

Guess you now know where the power lies, and its not with you.

Yeah they should have gone around in topless with some slogans and then all to mine Jita state's face!

Not necessarily said pvp should e restricted to low and null .war dec if u want to high sec pvp. I think its funny the gankers are crying about this lol

CCP have to move goals because emergent players like your corp find new and creative ways to do stuff more and more efficiently (also see the FW LP affair) and they feel like they have to counter them to keep the game under control.

Feel free to disagree of course, but in order to be relevant you'd need at least to become a relevant CCP stake holder.

I recall in the other similar thread a link to a 19k EHP ship with zero MLUs kill mail. So what? It's not like that guy now will receive a statement of Well Played by you or CCP and the ship reimbursed.

Well if you put uber killmail detective mode on it's possible to guess, but who has that kind of patience?

All points are Irrelevant. Kill is a kill. Titan or 5000 Catalysts... Doesn't matter.

"Tanked Hulk can't be ganked" is what you nullbears keep saying.

Except that this change in no way "nerfs intelligent gameplay". At the very worst this re-balance forces gankers to make a few more friends (crazy idea in an MMO, I know) and at best it diminishes the profitability of ganking. Miners are still going to be gankable in all but the most extreme circumstances that the chicken little crowd you're apart of seem to think will be the new norm.

To be fair, a large number of your cronies, including Ruby and Richard have been beating this nugget of dead horse around for quite awhile. It's been proven incorrect on a number of occasions, but they still believe it.

Nope. Never said that.

We said it cannot be ganked profitably if properly fit (the kill in question had a Roid Scanner as part of his tank). In addition, if you go to a higher sec band, the cost to gank a properly tanked hulk quickly becomes prohibitive.

Nullsec is safe space if you're in big alliance.

- You see red in local -> you warp all your PVE ships to POS and jump into PVP ship
- Hundreds of intel channels
- Triage carriers (if you need "healing")
And so on...

You're reaching. Adding EHP does not make mining barges into ungankable fortresses. It makes them less profitable to gank. That's it.

Why can't you add the EHP yourself? Why does CCP have to do it for you?

Because I would be killed by Goons before I could get out of lowsec.

You're starting to sound dumber and dumber. Is it late where you are? Have you been drinking? Are you mining currently? Have you ever mined? Do you know what it's like mining in a Hulk without a Survey Scanner? Do you know what happens when trying to fit a module to a ship when you've run out of CPU or PG? No ship is forced to dedicate every slot to increasing it's tank at the expense of whatever it's primary role is, so why should Hulk's be any different? Were you dropped on your head as a toddler?

[quote=Richard Desturned]

what VV isn't telling you is that the tank was actually a small shield extender, two invulns and cargo mods/rigs

No, it wasn't. Keep lying profusely.

and gankers are special snowflakes who should not be burdened with difficult decisions like "picking the right target"

(which can include steps other than tank, btw).

And here comes belt rats. Ganker ganks with a little help from belt rats.

And here comes Thrasher and ganks it.

Can your Erebus destroy that Hulk before it gets to complete safety of POS?

5 ECM Drones, 5 Warrior IIs. Dscan, pull ECM, put out warriors, kill Rats, put ECM back out.

How much handholding do you need, honestly?

Why are you tackled in Hulk in nullsec? Talk about AFK mining...

- Jump into your Hulk (oh no, you don't have skills. ok that Catalyst is ok)
- Go to nearest incursion area.
- Warp to belt
- Profit!

Are Sanshas too tough challenge for pvper?

If the Hulk gets pointed, yes. But again, we're talking about HS.

The tractor beam is not worth fitting for hisec fleets, where every hulk can hug the Orca and reach the entire belt without moving.

Things work differently in null sec: in null sec it makes sense to fit an active tank to a Hulk because you will be tanking damage from a bunch of battleship NPCs for a long time. In null sec it makes sense to have a tractor beam on the Orca because the belts are larger, hulks will be spread out, and the links you're sacrificing from the Orca are running more effectively on the Rorqual instead.

In hisec, the Orca is the boosting ship, there is no reason to tractor cans (and every reason to not use cans), and belts are 60km across, maximum.

There is no suicide banking in null sec: you can shoot first. You don't need to spam d-scan since you can just watch local.

No it's not. If you want a challenge go to lowsec and start shooting people. You have very good chance they will dock up when they can't beat you.

I've never said it's a challenge.

And Miners are all about the challenge?

Miners are not going to win much high ground claiming "mining is sooooo hard "

If tank is good then why are you whining in this thread.

Are you seriously keeping an Orca close to Macks?

Pray tell me where, I'll tell a friend where to disco and then post a FRAPS about it.

(new player unfriendly, CCP does not like it).

When was the last time I undocked in untanked exhumer owned by me? Date? API verified killmail?

If you claim that as truth you should have some facts to back it up.

Have fun placing your 200 ships to not have any overlap.

[Hulk, ****]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Yes, I know it's not "perfect".

Forgot drones. 5x Vespa EC-600

Not to rain your parade but 3 catalysts is the default setup even moderate casual gankers use...

This alone makes feel the pilot wasted training weeks for nothing and with such a loss in performance the other ships WILL out-do it so hard that they will repay their lower survivability in few days.

- Needs 6% CPU implant if I want to use cheaper T2 MSE.
- Only 27k EHP (Hulk with one MLU, survey scanner and overheated invuls can beat that)

You can't put two implants into same slot on same clone.

Are you now saying it can be ganked? Great.

working as intended

Only if you can gank it before node crashes...

What? I don't even...

25M in salvage.
7-11M in T2 strip miners.
10M from Goons.

And if you don't insure your ship you're doing it wrong.

provide additional loot for those who sooner or later will kill you anyway.

You probably want to produce some of the modules by yourself if you get that bad deals from your supplier.

then don't do it... you are not being forced to suicide gank miners, go shoot at players in low or null for free.

1 ISK given away to an hostile is 1 ISK too many.

What's talk about "we don't need miners because we can produce our own ships and modules by ourselves"?

Nope.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626

Read posts from other gankers in that thread. James is lord of EVE so doesn't need to explain his thoughts.

+1

Can`t wait to salvage the tears from miners whining on these forums about their bad isk/hour ratio.

Achieving what? Besides being easily flagged as a bot.

Where did I say I'm against pvp in hisec?

There's actual pvp corps in hisec that don't do it for griefing, just to get their pewpew. I'm not against that at all.
I'm not against ganking stupid haulers (20 PLEXes in shuttle and so on, you get the point).
I'm not against ganking officer fit mission ship in hisec (it's just pure stupidity)...

Do you get the point?

EVE Online is MMO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game).

No, if you ALT TAB and stagger ice miners you appear to be a bot. In the logs you'll appear doing multiple staggered things in close time frames across multiple accounts.

Way to take that 15k EHP out of context...

You were claiming Hulk is T1 cruiser.

Avg. EHP for T1 cruiser is around 10k-15k EHP.

It's just another nail in the coffin.... im not interested in experiencing another Ultima Online Trammel amputation in EvE. I will never go thru that experience again, it's just too painfull.

Sad times we live, the last true old school sandbox mmo being is ripped apart. Even the forums have been "trammelized".

Yes. Is there a part you didn't understand?

Ok, for Minnie cruisers because they have other ways to get away.

You forgot neuting power of Curse. Because neuts are the modules that seperates Minmatar from inferior races.

Second, EvE is dying since 2003 and also being Trammel-ized since they made CONCORD un-tankable, added warp to zero and nerfed nano boats. Long live EvE!

Your griefer tears are exquisite. Please go on, goon scum.

Btw, U MAD?

How is crimewatch doing to stop you from blowing up the shuttle?

Excuse me. Did I miss anything? Is that actually going to be implemented?

The tears are strong in this one. Nothings set in stone and you cry like a baby already.

That aside, it was plain stupid that you can gank a mining ship with a few catalysts, even if it was tanked to hell and back.

You do know that the amoutn of tank you can fit in a mining ship is very little.

You are basicly crying that you no longer can kill something with just one ship, you actually need some more team effort in it. Funny right, team effort in an mmo, must come as a shocker.

Again, you are wrong, as usual. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?