But is he wrong?

Nope.

Fitted properly, a Hulk cannot be profitably ganked.

They're not profitable gank targets unless the Miners choose to hold a bullseye over their face.

The Hulk isn't a profitable Gank target when fit properly either.

*yawn*

Not another thread whining about miners yet again?

I'm saying they don't need a tank buff because they're fine as they are.

CCP is making EVE into MLP Online. High sec is going to become 100% safe haven for miners and the botters are going to grow in such numbers it is going to be stupid silly.

Wow remember Incarna just because CCP does something doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

The entire point is that miners haven't done anything to earn this buff. As I said earlier an appropriate buff would be purely to the fitting stats of the ships, not their EHP. Buffing the fitting stats would allow them to fit a respectable tank without too much sacrifice to yield, but no, we can't even help miners help themselves, we have to do everything for them!

This is a bad change and it stands on the objective fact that it essentially nerfs intelligent gameplay (read: tanking your miner) and rewards lazy, stupid gameplay (going AFK with a max-yield mining barge fitting absolutely no tank).

No... it's not...

It absolutely does, because there's no longer any incentive for miners to make intelligent choices about defending themselves.

hahahaha "why should I bother fitting a thermic hardener which substantially increases my ability to survive a gank attempt by the most popular exhumer hunting ship in the game, no, I should use that midslot for a roid scanner that works just as well on an ibis"

Why can't you add the EHP yourself? Why does CCP have to do it for you?

Confirmed, your survey scanner has to be on your hulk for it to work.

what VV isn't telling you is that the tank was actually a small shield extender, two invulns and cargo mods/rigs

Okay, so explain to me again why this is a necessary change?

Of course it doesn't. But here's you being intentionally obtuse again.

See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!

For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.

But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.

Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?

The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships.

No they cant.

Gankers will gank for a profit, and they'll gank for a laugh if they can inflict disproportionate damage on the target.
But requiring a group of 3 Tornados to grind up 300M ISK to simply attempt to kill a 180M ISK Mackinaw with a midslot tank?

We tested this, they cant. You break even by the time you hit 3 catalysts

A well fitted hulk will not die to 3 catalysts and does require the firepower of 3-4 tornado to kill it.

Only if you don't bother to tank the Hulk.

This fit on SiSi has 22k EHP

[Hulk, Hulk, tank]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

No it wont. Again we have tested this hence why we did not go after these supertank hulks in our interdiction.

CCP SOUNDWAVE PLS HOLD MY HAND I'M PARALYZED IN FEAR OF THE BIG BAD GANKERS AND AM TOO STUPID TO DEFEND MYSELF.
PLS REMOVE NONCONSENSUAL PVP FROM HISEC, CONCORD ALL GOONS ON SIGHT, BAN SCAMMING AND CAN FLIPPING, AND LET US SHOOT NINJA SALVAGERS.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THIS GAME AND WANT A SAFE CORNER OF IT FOR MYSELF.

- Gankers whine

Have you seen the amount of vitriol that the miners have been spewing at the gankers (or anyone who at all disagrees with them) in this thread?

I guess their vitriol is why they can post with their main, while you are circumventing your ban on that alt?

I have exactly 1 Red mark on Ruby. For a specific set of posts that were intended to call attention to an issue that would not otherwise be discussed. It worked, and we have better moderation because of it.

I have never had a Warning for forum posting.

Hulks can be fit such that they cannot be profitably ganked.

This isn't subjective. You can tank a hulk to the point where all but the most bitter will pass it by for easyer, more profitable kills. This is why my haulers and hulks have never died to a gank in 6 years of playing.

You can say that all you want but its as wrong now as it was the first time you said it. Trying to use it to escape a point you cannot possibly counter only makes you look stupid.

Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.

Yeah my point is thatI don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

And guess what, as it stands right now on TQ, unless you use a bunch of rookie ships, ganking is only profitable if your target is a moron/lazy.

I agree with what little substance there was in the OP for the most part. Mining barges don't need a buff. Fit your ship correctly and don't mine in busy systems.

That said, this 70+ page thread literally soaked with highsec griefer tears is starting to make me see things differently.

Maybe we should just make barges completely invulnerable (only if they fit mining lazors of course; we wouldn't want to make anything unbalanced now would we?).

Exactly as it is on TQ right now.

Read what I wrote again; specifically the second line: "That said, this 70+ page thread literally soaked with highsec griefer tears is starting to make me see things differently."

Counterpoint: you use the term corpie ans thus are a halfwit.

Just curious, but if I made a thread called "Gankers, and saving the Stupid PIGS from themselves". Would it get locked, or... what ?

*YAWN* Another whine thread about miners. Nothing to see here, move along.

Canadian pigs, are the worst. Yet the best things.