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THERisingPHOENIX Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association	Posted - 2010.08.21 20:52:00 - [1] Is this going out of control now? I see every gate on trade routes camped so much, and many ppl unable to undock stuff like pos equipment from jita 4 4 without getting blown up. Its not like I got ganked yet, just curious what some ppl think about this. I know its part of gameplay getting concord for doing it, but something like station camp im against. Go troll all u want, im ready to see what u guys think.
Sepi Gamma Draconis Industries Eternus Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.21 20:54:00 - [2] having been ganked myself once, only for about 700mill so not too bad (and nope wasn't on AP) just got 1 shot by a BS its part 'n' parcel of game, in terms of stations if you do move things about without an insta-warp spot from the main hubs then more fool you... (this goes for anyone tbh) but hey ho, good profit to be made, but me personally think its mighty boring sat at gate all day but hey you pays your isk you plays ur game
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.08.21 21:00:00 - [3] Rule of tumb is to not carry more value in your ship than a suicide gank will cost. Preferably the value of the goods should be conciderably less. If you are too lazy to do the calculations or too scared to take the risk yourself, there is freight services who will transport your stuff for you.
Krevnos	Posted - 2010.08.21 21:16:00 - [4] Actually you are indeed correct. I have noticed about a 75% increase in suicide gankers since the unfortunate events of that Kestrel (the PLEX one of course) were publicised. Generally, if you keep the contents of your ship's cargo below approx 200% of what it would cost to suicide gank it, you'll be safe. Suicide ganks typically cost 15-30 mil to take out a half-tanked target. It's also worth noting that well tanked deep space transports are rarely attacked, and freighters even less so.
Hari Markkus Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2010.08.21 21:25:00 - [5] Travelling from Jita to anywhere on autopilot is sure way to get yourself scanned a few times before you leave Caldari space. It is one of the reason that I have made my home in Gallente space. The players that inhabit Gallente space are much more laid back than the ones in Caldari space. I don't know if I blame the people who move stuff around in unsuitable ships or the mommie's of the little boys doing the killing.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.21 21:27:00 - [6] A couple of years ago jita ganking was so bad I actually thought it was lowsec. Corpies advised not going there w/o a fleet, and this was with no war decs on the corp or alliance. On one hand gate camping is lame and on the other hand I've done it. I couldn't do it all day even for the promise of billions in drops but some people are willing to do it for the tears. But to answer the question as of right now, I dont hang out in Jita enough to see a difference. It's been ridiculously full every time I have ever been there with tons of ships everywhere. In the Minmatar hub I have noticed there seem to be more people at the gates, but none of them even lock me. I haven't seen any wrecks at the gates. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.21 21:28:00 - [7] Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Is this going out of control now? No Quote: I see every gate on trade routes camped so much, But do you see people actually get blown up on said gates? Where are the CONCORD swarms? Quote: Its not like I got ganked yet, just curious what some ppl think about this. That you're overstating the issue. Quote: I know its part of gameplay getting concord for doing it, but something like station camp im against. àwhich, funnily enough, there are gameplay mechanics to get around. Quote: Go troll all u want You mean like not really having much in the way of argument or evidence of the purported issueà? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Marcus Hague	Posted - 2010.08.21 22:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Sepi having been ganked myself once, only for about 700mill so not too bad (and nope wasn't on AP) just got 1 shot by a BS If you are carrying 700 mil worth of stuff in a ship that can be one shotted by a BS you are doing it wrong. Of course the exception is flying a blockade runner, in which case you should cloak and that BS shouldn't be locking you.
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2010.08.21 23:34:00 - [9] It's definitely gotten worse and is one of the consequences of low ore prices and cheap battleships. My problem with it isn't so much the suicide ganking but the lack of NPC response over the long term. Realistically, given all the gankings that happen around Jita 4-4, there would be a permanently stationed Concord presence and probably a sinificant Caldari response as well. There's no way Concord or the Caldari military would allow people to float outside the station for more than a minute or so in an obvious suicide ship (Tempest w/ sensor boosters) and with ninja looting industrials parked and ready to aid in the crime right outside the station dock. I'm not sure how you fix that and still allow for suicide ganking to be a profitable business though.
Amaya Kulotsuki Amarr SEPTAGON TRANS-ILLUMINATI CORPORATION Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.08.22 00:35:00 - [10] Phoenix. Go to the alliance forums. Check the events/ops section. Do it now. _________________________________ <Something witty/>
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.08.22 01:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Jada Maroo It's definitely gotten worse and is one of the consequences of low ore prices and cheap battleships. My problem with it isn't so much the suicide ganking but the lack of NPC response over the long term. Realistically, given all the gankings that happen around Jita 4-4, there would be a permanently stationed Concord presence and probably a sinificant Caldari response as well. There's no way Concord or the Caldari military would allow people to float outside the station for more than a minute or so in an obvious suicide ship (Tempest w/ sensor boosters) and with ninja looting industrials parked and ready to aid in the crime right outside the station dock. I'm not sure how you fix that and still allow for suicide ganking to be a profitable business though. The thing is, after a suicide gank, concord will stay there for some time so the next suicide ganker is insta popped. This drastically cuts down on this "out of control" nonsense being sputed.
alittlebirdy	Posted - 2010.08.22 01:22:00 - [12] Called a freighter, use it... Last time I checked as well, you did not have to go to jita to buy pretty much anything... you can go elsewere...
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.22 01:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Aessoroz The thing is, after a suicide gank, concord will stay there for some time so the next suicide ganker is insta popped. This drastically cuts down on this "out of control" nonsense being sputed. Alpha pests ftw Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist
Dasubervixen Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.22 02:52:00 - [14] Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX just curious what some ppl think about this. I'm a trader/miner. That's what I do mostly in EvE. Its my thing, I like it. My honest opinion of players who gank in hi-sec for cargo. They RAWK!
porth0s	Posted - 2010.08.22 03:19:00 - [15] The prob with suicide gankers is they prey on the new players. Anyone with experience is using a freighter or something else that keeps them protected. I think it should be the other way around
THERisingPHOENIX Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association	Posted - 2010.08.22 03:26:00 - [16] Thanks for the feedback, really some interesting replies to read and think about. Also thanks Tippia for trying to make up lame crap for each of my sentences.
Dasubervixen Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.22 03:31:00 - [17] Originally by: porth0s The prob with suicide gankers is they prey on the new players. I say they help new players become better old players by demonstrating what happens if you play EvE with your head you know where.
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.08.22 04:16:00 - [18] Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 22/08/2010 04:16:34 Originally by: Aessoroz The thing is, after a suicide gank, concord will stay there for some time so the next suicide ganker is insta popped. This drastically cuts down on this "out of control" nonsense being sputed. Are you sure? I heard differently. Word was that if concord had spawned after a suicide gank and another one happens, the officers in the concord ships already present eat donuts and watch but do nothing. Instead a new concord spawn will appear and this is the concord spawn that attacks the ganker(s).
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.08.22 05:04:00 - [19] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/08/2010 05:04:26 Originally by: Jada Maroo It's definitely gotten worse and is one of the consequences of low ore prices and cheap battleships. My problem with it isn't so much the suicide ganking but the lack of NPC response over the long term. Realistically, given all the gankings that happen around Jita 4-4, there would be a permanently stationed Concord presence and probably a sinificant Caldari response as well. There's no way Concord or the Caldari military would allow people to float outside the station for more than a minute or so in an obvious suicide ship (Tempest w/ sensor boosters) and with ninja looting industrials parked and ready to aid in the crime right outside the station dock. I'm not sure how you fix that and still allow for suicide ganking to be a profitable business though. Learn how to use INSTAUNDOCK Bookmarks people.. man.. never have I been scanned in the last two years.. What are instaundock BMs? 1) get a fast frig 2) undock the station 3) burn away with mwd 4) adjust your course in a way that accommodates the 5 degree uncertainty in departure angle upon undocking (means: try to achieve a 0 degree departure angle for the Bookmark) 4.1) use tactical overview as guide/help/orientation 5) fly as long as you want (normally after 350km the grid ends and you can't be seen anymore from the station you just left.. to be sure and because of gridfuu you might wanna fly out till 1.000km+ though) 6) dock and undock again, now testing your BM by warping to it.. if your ship has to alter its course after undocking to warp to your bookmark it wasn't good enough.. start again at 3) 7) exercise this regularily (comes in handy during wardecs or in lowsec)
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.08.22 05:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/08/2010 05:04:26 Originally by: Jada Maroo It's definitely gotten worse and is one of the consequences of low ore prices and cheap battleships. My problem with it isn't so much the suicide ganking but the lack of NPC response over the long term. Realistically, given all the gankings that happen around Jita 4-4, there would be a permanently stationed Concord presence and probably a sinificant Caldari response as well. There's no way Concord or the Caldari military would allow people to float outside the station for more than a minute or so in an obvious suicide ship (Tempest w/ sensor boosters) and with ninja looting industrials parked and ready to aid in the crime right outside the station dock. I'm not sure how you fix that and still allow for suicide ganking to be a profitable business though. Learn how to use INSTAUNDOCK Bookmarks people.. man.. never have I been scanned in the last two years.. What are instaundock BMs? 1) get a fast frig 2) undock the station 3) burn away with mwd 4) adjust your course in a way that accommodates the 5 degree uncertainty in departure angle upon undocking (means: try to achieve a 0 degree departure angle for the Bookmark) 4.1) use tactical overview as guide/help/orientation 5) fly as long as you want (normally after 350km the grid ends and you can't be seen anymore from the station you just left.. to be sure and because of gridfuu you might wanna fly out till 1.000km+ though) 6) dock and undock again, now testing your BM by warping to it.. if your ship has to alter its course after undocking to warp to your bookmark it wasn't good enough.. start again at 3) 7) exercise this regularily (comes in handy during wardecs or in lowsec) How about: 1. Stop falling for trolls. 2. The guy who sits in centre of undock range with that freighter with 5 crusiers orbiting him at various ranges with mwd on is the one you have to be careful about.
Necrosmith Gallente Chunder Corp	Posted - 2010.08.22 06:16:00 - [21] I don't remember the last time I went to Jita. I don't remember the last time I was suicide ganked. Coincidence? __________________ Follow me on Twitter Please add the ability to autolink planets in support of PI.
Sisohiv	Posted - 2010.08.22 06:51:00 - [22] I havent noticed it being any different than it ever was. In terms of the kestrel thing. Plex are seed on Tests server. I'm betting if you popped 100 Kestrels on test server with 1000 Plex in them, none would survive. So that bringing more suicide ganks makes the suicide gankers dumb as a box of rocks. The Jita IV 4 thing is very easy to manage. 5 seconds, thats my lagg check. 1 ten thousand, 2 ten thousand, 3 ten thousand, 4 ten thousand 5 ten thousand. If I dont see my ship, I abort the undock. I also make it a point to undock empty. Often.
Twisted Mister	Posted - 2010.08.22 07:06:00 - [23] Edited by: Twisted Mister on 22/08/2010 07:08:34 Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Rule of tumb is to not carry more value in your ship than a suicide gank will cost. The rule of thumb is not to haul anything really valuable in anything which can be one vollied by a minmatar battleship. There were several attempts to stop or reduce suicide ganking, but really there is no point. As long as there are thoose people carrying 10 billions worth of cargo which is 100 m3, in a T1 industrial, this is not going to change a bit. edit: you are delusional if you think this only happens at jita, most of the ppl camping the jita 4-4 station are wartarget-farmers.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.22 07:56:00 - [24] Edited by: Tippia on 22/08/2010 08:04:39 Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Also thanks Tippia for trying to make up lame crap for each of my sentences. They're called "responses", and you get one for each point you make. The fact that they question your statements don't make them lame, I'm afraid. The fact that you can't respond to them, and dismiss them out of hand just because they happen not to agree with you, on the other handà Now, do you have any kind of evidence to support your claims? What are your points of comparison? And most importantly: so what? Even if there are more ganks, why does it matter? Does it cause some kind of issue, if so what? Or are you saying that there's not enough of them ù that the insurance changes have hit too hard, and that the increase isn't as high as it should be? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
N0N	Posted - 2010.08.22 08:03:00 - [25] There are ways to avoid being ganked and ships you cans use. If you are open to learning, you will adapt, if not you will rage quit and it's goodbye to bad blood. As far as station camping is concerned, it's a none issue with the use of insta undock points.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.22 08:14:00 - [26] Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Is this going out of control now? I see every gate on trade routes camped so much, and many ppl unable to undock stuff like pos equipment from jita 4 4 without getting blown up. Its not like I got ganked yet, just curious what some ppl think about this. I know its part of gameplay getting concord for doing it, but something like station camp im against. Go troll all u want, im ready to see what u guys think. I think I read this exact post in 2006. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Heavenly Perverse	Posted - 2010.08.22 10:57:00 - [27] I dunno if there are more or less campers in Jita, as far as I saw there were and are campers all the time. Its something to be expected. As far as out of control thing... I'd call it Darwinism. Whomever is dumb enough to carry too much isk in a ship that can be instapopped by a bs or 2 deserves its fate. Not that I could imagine spending my game time on camping a station/gate, but i guess its just natural reaction to people's stupidity. If noone was dumb enough to make such mistakes (cough 72 plexes cough), there would be no gankers. That being said, I saw less freighter ganks around Hek than I used to. Maybe more ppl moved to Jita surroundings?
Duvida Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.08.24 02:15:00 - [28] I've been popping this idea around, but if the Concorded 0.4 space became a trade hub, it'd be a gankfest... so I don't know. Here's the idea: " have 0.4 space contain a Concord presence that responds in 1.25 the amount of time as their 0.5 comrades do, and add a 0.2 or 0.3 system for each 0.4 system already in the game, so as to give more breathing room to everyone. " Learning...
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.24 05:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Necrosmith I don't remember the last time I went to Jita. I don't remember the last time I was suicide ganked. Coincidence? In before someone says "I see what you did there." But really, I see what you did there. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
heheheh Ecliptic Refuge	Posted - 2010.08.24 11:35:00 - [30] Edited by: heheheh on 24/08/2010 11:36:13 Dont afk with hundreds of millions of ISK in an untanked ship. Use WCS on your transport ships, and if you are scared of undocking from Jita, make yourself an Insta undock BM 200 km in front of the 4-4 Exit. It can be avoided. and to the guy that says he hasnt been scanned, you have, you just dont know it.

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