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Long range sniping.

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Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:17:00 - [1] Hi. I've always wanted to be the long ranged sniper ship, being gallante I thought rails would be the best at this, however reading the forums I quickly found out that hybrids are weak when compared to art and lazers, Is this true? If i want to be the long ranged superman, what should i use? What ship should I aim for?
raukosen	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:19:00 - [2] Sniping battleships are very nichT in PvP and in PvE you get more damage from close range setups. In general though: Amarr, both for HACs and BSes. Minmatar is good too
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:20:00 - [3] Minmatar are the best snipers. Aim for an un-probeable Alpha Strike sniper Machariel as your end-game ship.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:22:00 - [4] Rokh makes an excellent sniper boat. Rails are good when it comes to sniping, nothing wrong with it.
Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:27:00 - [5] So artillery is the best ranged damage then? Im not just talking about striking once but also perhaps being able to just fire from long range in missions etc. Amarr atm seems more promesing but maybe I should go the artillery way.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:30:00 - [6] Rails are something that work well for sniping in theory, but in practice not so much. Rokh is going to have a very easy time hitting the targeting cap of 250km with its guns, but since the gallente and matari ships can't viably do this, fleet fights tend to happen at around 150km tops, at which range minmatar is best simply because you get a really high alpha, and most people will not be surviving long enough for a second shot anyway. In missions sniping is pointless, you'll never need to shoot something more than 100km away.
Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.25 14:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Cambarus Rails are something that work well for sniping in theory, but in practice not so much. Rokh is going to have a very easy time hitting the targeting cap of 250km with its guns, but since the gallente and matari ships can't viably do this, fleet fights tend to happen at around 150km tops, at which range minmatar is best simply because you get a really high alpha, and most people will not be surviving long enough for a second shot anyway. In missions sniping is pointless, you'll never need to shoot something more than 100km away. So minmatar is my best choice then? I've trained destoyers to level 3, What ships should i aim for in minmatar then? what frigate to start with and etc, I've never been in a minmatar ship. And thanks for all the comments everyone!
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2010.08.25 15:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Slin Norray So minmatar is my best choice then? I've trained destoyers to level 3, What ships should i aim for in minmatar then? what frigate to start with and etc, I've never been in a minmatar ship. And thanks for all the comments everyone! There really isn't a single best choice here, but I guess if you feel that the responses you've gotten point you towards Minmitar, go with it. And get yourself into a Rifter as quickly as possible. From there, look to a Thrasher (though fitting artillery on one can be a bit taxing) and perhaps a Jaguar. But if you go that way, stay open to using ACs instead of just arties. They're both fine guns, but the former are definitely not for "sniping" per se. Further down the line, an artie Hurricane can be quite nice.
Beverly Sparks	Posted - 2010.08.25 17:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Beverly Sparks on 25/08/2010 17:08:52 Minmatar or Amarr are the best choices at present. You will not go wrong with either. Amarr have better BS's, Minmatar have better ships sub BC. Although Amarr do have pretty nice T2 Cruisers, which I would say are on par with Minnie. Battlecruisers, I would say are a draw. If you ever want to get into capitals, then Amarr is the way to go hands down. Keep in mind none of these answers are absolute, 120% of it has to do with how you will be using it and in what situations. Fleet combat, Hit and run, 20+ man roaming gangs, low sec gate camps, High Sec ganking, etc etc etc. Depending on what you are doing, really effects the correct answer for you. But for sniperage, it is hard to beat the Zealot and the Apoc.
Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.25 17:34:00 - [10] Im having a hard time choosing one of either minmatar or amarr, Ill try them both before I make my mind, thanks all for your help.

Ravenesa The Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.25 18:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Slin Norray Im having a hard time choosing one of either minmatar or amarr, Ill try them both before I make my mind, thanks all for your help. As someone who flys both Minies and Amarr I recommend you looking at ths sub BS ships to realyl decide what you want to fly. The Apoc is a very godo sniper ship and I prefer it over the Minie T1 hulls. Sub BS is where it counts. I prefer Amarr Recons for solo work and small gang work, though the Raiper makes an excellent covert cyno ship. The Vaga is my favorite solo HAC, but I love my Zaalot and Sacs in small gangs. The Rupture is arguably the best brawler T1 cruiser and is fun to fly. I also like the Arby due to its cheapness and versitility. The Rifter is the best T1 frig in the game, but I also enjoy the punisher in a bleeder setup. The AF versions of both ships can be fun to fly, but I like to use the Vengence the most, mainly as a heavy tackler. So really figure out what you want to fly other then a sniper setup and you will be fine. Both races work well.
Torpir Lee Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.08.25 18:57:00 - [12] I find that for sniping, each race has its strengths and weaknesses: DPS: Amarr>Minmatar>Gallente>Caldari Range: Caldari>Amarr>Gallente>Minmatar Tank: Caldari>Amarr>Gallente>Minmatar Mobility: Minmatar>Amarr>Gallente>Caldari Alpha: Minmatar>Amarr>Gallente>Caldari Which of the above matters more to you depends on what sniping situation you're in. For example, if you want to snipe and run away as fast as possible, Minmatar are the best. If you wanna have sustained sniping performance over time, Amarr are the best. Gallente are pretty subpar as you can see, but Rails have their strong point with the Rokh. There are more things to consider than what I stated above, like cap stability and damage type selection(for shooting structures) and tackler protection(room for drones and neuts).
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.25 21:02:00 - [13] Originally by: Torpir Lee I find that for sniping, each race has its strengths and weaknesses: DPS: Amarr>Minmatar>Gallente>Caldari Range: Caldari>Amarr>Gallente>Minmatar Tank: Caldari>Amarr>Gallente>Minmatar Mobility: Minmatar>Amarr>Gallente>Caldari Alpha: Minmatar>Amarr>Gallente>Caldari Which of the above matters more to you depends on what sniping situation you're in. For example, if you want to snipe and run away as fast as possible, Minmatar are the best. If you wanna have sustained sniping performance over time, Amarr are the best. Gallente are pretty subpar as you can see, but Rails have their strong point with the Rokh. There are more things to consider than what I stated above, like cap stability and damage type selection(for shooting structures) and tackler protection(room for drones and neuts). To further add to this already very excellent comparison of the different racial snipers: Minmatar for quick in and out incursions/roaming amarr for long big battles Amarr have the big bonus of CRYSTALS and OPTIMAL, minmatar the big bonus of SPEED, ALPHA and falloff. A minmatar sniper would shine better in a mixed medium-ish sized gang, an amarr bs would shine better in a pure sniping BS big-huge gang. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.25 21:52:00 - [14] Im going to do missions with a friend with blasters and drones. Im thinking mostly missions atm, It seeems that Amarr is the best at that. However im trying artillery now and I love it, its justa bit slow :P
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2010.08.25 22:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Slin Norray Im going to do missions with a friend with blasters and drones. Im thinking mostly missions atm, It seeems that Amarr is the best at that. However im trying artillery now and I love it, its justa bit slow :P Oh dear. In general, Caldari missile boats are the "best at missions" as it were. Especially L1 through L3, though with a very strong contender in the CNR/Golem (and Tengu, and Nighthawk) in L4s. For L4s, Amarr is good in Amarr space. Before that, umm, I'm actually not sure I'd recommend anything except an Arbitrator -- and that's barely an Amarr ship as it relies on drones for damage for the most part. And I actually like it in a passive shield tank configuration. The ultimate mission ships here are the Paladin and the Nightmare. Similarly, Minmatar do great in Minmatar space, but also have a great little boat in the Rifter (and its variants; I'm happy to take a Jaguar or Wolf into an L4 if I'm bored). End goals here are the Varguar and the Machariel -- though neither of them fits artillery. Gallente fly drones for missions if they know what's good for them and back them up with railguns -- not blasters except in very niche situations. For better or for worse, the ultimate mission ships here are the Dominix and the Ishtar -- either of them will field a full wing of T2 sentries (essentially sniper drones) and the Domi will supplement that with 350mm railguns. Technically you could mission fit a Vindicator if you had to but... don't.
Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.25 22:15:00 - [16] I just tried to switch ammo from Nuclear S (60% range bonus) to Titanum Sabot S, the diffrence is huge. What ammo does snipers usually use? I've been always been using the one that gives the most range, maybe ive been wrong all this time ;(. Arillery however is really slow, and looks like it will get even slower as I skill up and can use bigger guns is this true? Ive yet to try amarr ship and their lasers, but tbh they seem abitlame ;P
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.25 23:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Slin Norray I just tried to switch ammo from Nuclear S (60% range bonus) to Titanum Sabot S, the diffrence is huge. What ammo does snipers usually use? I've been always been using the one that gives the most range, maybe ive been wrong all this time ;(. Arillery however is really slow, and looks like it will get even slower as I skill up and can use bigger guns is this true? Ive yet to try amarr ship and their lasers, but tbh they seem abitlame ;P 1)Tremor, or faction nuclear/proton if you can't fit t2 1400s. 2)Yes, and bigger volley 3)Lasers are teh pwertty
Slin Norray	Posted - 2010.08.26 00:05:00 - [18] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Minmatar are the best snipers. Aim for an un-probeable Alpha Strike sniper Machariel as your end-game ship. That ship seems awesome, but to gain loyalty with angels wont be easy will it? ;(
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.26 02:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Slin Norray Originally by: omgfreemoniez Minmatar are the best snipers. Aim for an un-probeable Alpha Strike sniper Machariel as your end-game ship. That ship seems awesome, but to gain loyalty with angels wont be easy will it? ;( You buy them off contracts for 800 mil a pop.
Caldari citizen52145894561	Posted - 2010.08.26 07:17:00 - [20] to tell you, Amarr lasers have good optimal, basic crystals do not "wear out" although faction and advanced crystals do, we have crystals for different ranges, less optimal = more damage, more optimal = less damage. our crystals take about a second to switch and you only need the lasers not firing to switch(if it takes anything more the game is acting up) pulses have less fitting requirements, better tracking, and more DPS than beams but have much lower optimal beams have higher fitting requirements, less tracking, less DPS than pulses but have a much greater optimal if we aren't using faction crystals, the only thing our weapons consume to fire is capacitor, and amarr ships have lots of that. Amarr ships often have either rate of fire, optimal range, laser capacitor need (consumes less cap when firing), or armor resistance bonuses but rarely not often have damage bonus (cept for the T2 and faction) like some of the people in here said, Battleships and capitals are where Amarr shine Apocalypse gets obscene range bonuses supposedly with advanced pulses can get range out to 100km and with advanced beams 200km the Armageddon gets an ok rate of fire bonus but can supposedly get 1500 dps with beams and 4000 dps with pulses the T2 versions and the faction versions appear to be outright nasty for PVP and occasionally PVE if you want actual data and facts, you will have to search the forums for information.

Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.26 08:04:00 - [21] Don't forget that the target also affects your choice. Many people who take out pods use destroyers due to good range and high tracking due to smallish weapons and such. Basically I mean, what do you want to hunt? Stop whining.
Moose Burger	Posted - 2010.08.26 09:47:00 - [22] Sniper HAC, ill stick to either zealot gangs, or cerb gangs. Both do their job very well, but they arent as good mixed with each other. As for sniper battleships, C/A/M has their own pro's and cons Amarr Battleship has good tank, and +25% more dps then most other Sniper BS's. Caldari Railboat has a very good tank, good resists, 300% tracking, insane projection to 249km(if it wanted to). Insanely good at taking down Support/sub-bs ships at range. The Minmatar arty platforms have vanilla tank and gank. However they have good alpha, Their tracking leaves much to be desired though. The most awesome one is my megathron. It is most beautiful, insane, awesome.............and long.
Headerman	Posted - 2010.08.26 11:46:00 - [23] Personally, i think a dozen sniper Tempests in a syncronised firing solution from 100km off a gate would be everyones nightmare
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2010.08.26 16:10:00 - [24] Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 26/08/2010 16:10:18 Originally by: Slin Norray Ive yet to try amarr ship and their lasers, but tbh they seem abitlame ;P One thing to note about Amarr ships -- they get a special class of gun. There really isn't an effective equivalent to Tachyon beams; they require more fitting, do more damage, and use more cap than anything else you can fit on a sub-capital ship. So there's that. And also Sansha's Nation ships just look awesome. But if Amarr don't appeal? Don't fly them. It's not like you'll be horribly disappointed with Minmatar.
Wardeneo	Posted - 2010.08.26 17:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Slin Norray Hi. I've always wanted to be the long ranged sniper ship, being gallante I thought rails would be the best at this, however reading the forums I quickly found out that hybrids are weak when compared to art and lazers, Is this true? If i want to be the long ranged superman, what should i use? What ship should I aim for? rails give best range , arties give best alpha n lazors are inbetween imo.... -wardeneo- -Wardeneo-
Caleidascope Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.08.26 23:09:00 - [26] Amarr and Minmatar. Amarr do only two damage types. Minmatar do any damage type you need by selecting appropriate ammunition.
kyrieee Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.08.26 23:36:00 - [27] If you want to fight in stuff smaller than Battleships go for Minmatar and if you want to fight in BSes and Caps go for Amarr. Minmatar ships are more fun to fly IMO, they're very flexible
Citan Gunz 4 Hire	Posted - 2010.08.26 23:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Caldari citizen52145894561 to tell you, Amarr lasers have good optimal, basic crystals do not "wear out" although faction and advanced crystals do, we have crystals for different ranges, less optimal = more damage, more optimal = less damage. our crystals take about a second to switch and you only need the lasers not firing to switch(if it takes anything more the game is acting up) pulses have less fitting requirements, better tracking, and more DPS than beams but have much lower optimal beams have higher fitting requirements, less tracking, less DPS than pulses but have a much greater optimal if we aren't using faction crystals, the only thing our weapons consume to fire is capacitor, and amarr ships have lots of that. Amarr ships often have either rate of fire, optimal range, laser capacitor need (consumes less cap when firing), or armor resistance bonuses but rarely not often have damage bonus (cept for the T2 and faction) like some of the people in here said, Battleships and capitals are where Amarr shine Apocalypse gets obscene range bonuses supposedly with advanced pulses can get range out to 100km and with advanced beams 200km the Armageddon gets an ok rate of fire bonus but can supposedly get 1500 dps with beams and 4000 dps with pulses the T2 versions and the faction versions appear to be outright nasty for PVP and occasionally PVE if you want actual data and facts, you will have to search the forums for information. WTB 4k dps geddon
Matt Douglass	Posted - 2010.08.27 11:31:00 - [29] My Apocalypse + Tachyon beam tech II + aurora L + 2x sensor booster w/ targeting range script = 1000 dmg per volley @ up to 230km, works pretty fine....
Djavo Midas Tycho One Stop Research	Posted - 2010.08.27 13:01:00 - [30] I'm pure Amarr and wouldn't have it any other way!



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