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Firia O'Flame
Order of the Grue
1
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Rifter, prior to the the much needed frig balancing in Inferno, was the undesputed king of T1 frigates. (Lord of all frigates goes to the Dramiel.) But after the rebalanced ships came out, the Rifter was left in the dust.
Now, I still get great kills with the Rifter, and it's still awesome. Problem is, when you pit the rifter against the newly rebalanced frigs, it's just decimated. I'd say this was pilot error if it didn't happen EVERY time! The problem as I see it, was that the CCP that did the balancing said, "The Rifter is cool. We can leave that alone." But they didn't weigh what the changes did to the dynamics.
Contrary to what you might think, I'm not pining for the days where my favorite T1 frig is king of the battlefield again. I just recognize that in a fight, it's not even close anymore.
I'll let you folks decide. My word doesn't have and weight alone. So you people discuss. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
31
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Firia O'Flame wrote:The Rifter, prior to the the much needed frig balancing in Inferno, was the undesputed king of T1 frigates. (Lord of all frigates goes to the Dramiel.) But after the rebalanced ships came out, the Rifter was left in the dust.
Now, I still get great kills with the Rifter, and it's still awesome. Problem is, when you pit the rifter against the newly rebalanced frigs, it's just decimated. I'd say this was pilot error if it didn't happen EVERY time! The problem as I see it, was that the CCP that did the balancing said, "The Rifter is cool. We can leave that alone." But they didn't weigh what the changes did to the dynamics.
Contrary to what you might think, I'm not pining for the days where my favorite T1 frig is king of the battlefield again. I just recognize that in a fight, it's not even close anymore.
I'll let you folks decide. My word doesn't have and weight alone. So you people discuss.
Granted I'm still in the practice arena / kiddy end of the pool, but so far the Rifter depends on fit and opponent from what I have seen now. In a brawl my punisher beats my buddy's Rifter hands down as long as its a short fight (neuts start to hurt over time). But when he uses that arty fit I can't get near em and he can pick at me all day.
Haven't tested all of them yet, but we are noticing a lot of rock-paper-scissors. It's kind of nice. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
1670
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
284
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....
-Liang
i think people just hid away from it due to the split weapons.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
strenif
Caldari War Machine
STR8NGE BREW
11
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....
-Liang i think people just hid away from it due to the split weapons.
I know I did. Tristan is the same way. |
Firia O'Flame
Order of the Grue
1
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
The merlin is a lot better now that it's high slots are more focused. |
Ogopogo Mu
O C C U P Y
Tribal Band
90
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Firia O'Flame wrote:The merlin is a lot better now that it's high slots are more focused.
Easier to fly, but less interesting and engageable.  |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm curious how the new incursus stacks up?
What T1 frigs do you judge to be better, overall, in a 1v1 frigat dual?
Merlin?
Punisher?
Any others?
My thoughts were that active tanking still wasn't viable, such that a plate was still preferable.... meaning you lose the falloff bonus for a bonus that isn't used, ie, they took away its falloff bonus (sure, some other stat got buffed, but when the other frigs get buffed too... well who cares) |
Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
33
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
There was another discussion thread about this recently that had some discussion and possible fits posted.
I've gone roaming a bit with the fit I posted but wasn't able to get any applicable fights. It seems that the key with the rifter now is to use it's speed an range to essentially kite within scram range vs blasters or out-track at close range vs. lasers. It seems like it should be viable but it'll really need to be tested in practice. This is what I'm trying out:
[Rifter, Hellshard]
Small Armor Repairer II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1MN Afterburner II
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Fast, a bit of rep, ability to control range and according to EFT, can out-dps the other frigs (assuming brawling fits) at the edge of scram range. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:I'm curious how the new incursus stacks up?
The dualrep incursus is a beast. Big damage and massive tank ... good luck trying to drop it with t1. Even my hawk struggles with good skills and web. |
Firia O'Flame
Order of the Grue
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sovai Elaaren wrote:
I've gone roaming a bit with the fit I posted but wasn't able to get any applicable fights. It seems that the key with the rifter now is to use it's speed an range to essentially kite within scram range vs blasters or out-track at close range vs. lasers. It seems like it should be viable but it'll really need to be tested in practice. This is what I'm trying out:
I've tried this, and while this technique has a bit of an edge over the merlin (that fight will still take an age, btw), it's totally useless against the dual rep incursus. It seems sound in principle, but it's really doesn't work with the Rifter. It just doesn't have enough DPS to out kite some of these new ships. Even ships designed to be DPS frigs; no dice.
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Paikis
Armarium Trading
99
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rifter is fine, L2P |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
28
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
You can't really count on kiting if something can rep your now reduced damage and still hit you. It just won't work out, because you are not wearing down his EHP and he is wearing your down. So you could either try to make some arty fit or try to figure out a way to gank the active tank ship pointblank, although I'm not sure how it would work even with good old Hail S, with the bonuses the Incursus has.
As for arty fits... just learn to love the Thrasher. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
19
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Posted - 2012.07.27 23:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
A good merlin/incursus wipes the floor with a rifter.
Its still better than the punisher though? |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
454
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rifter thread with Dev Commenya
They are probably going to change it to something no longer recognizable as the rifter. The Rifter is dead. Long live the Rifter! |
Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Merlin and Incursus didn't kill the Rifter; the new Slasher did (or rather, will). Right now, the Rifter is still the best tackling frigate, and it's still the frigate we issue en masse to newbies. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
32
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Posted - 2012.07.28 01:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:A good merlin/incursus wipes the floor with a rifter.
Its still better than the punisher though?
See my post above. ;) |
Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2012.07.28 01:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Rifter is fine, L2P
This x1000. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
Assassin Confederacy
57
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Posted - 2012.07.28 01:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
If nothing else the tormentor caught up on the rifter a lot  |
Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 02:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:If nothing else the tormentor caught up on the rifter a lot
Now, if only the Executioner could get another high and turret point... |
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
60
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Posted - 2012.07.28 12:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
awesome thinking: op ships after rebalancing should stay op...
People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back - this is EvE |
lanyaie
463
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 13:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
We should buff the hell and then buff the nyx tho then we should also buff the aeon and wyvern.
Or we can always use the nerfbat
I dont post often, but when I do i'm probably trolling you Currently offering 100% legit hulkageddon security sponsored by the mittani, send 50m to me and 50m to him |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Now, if only the Executioner could get another high and turret point...
It has 4 high slots and 3 turret hardpoints on SiSi. |
Maeltstome
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
Intrepid Crossing
51
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Posted - 2012.07.28 17:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Rifter is fine, L2P
BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I haven't laughed that hard since i was a little girl :)
P.s.
Constructive element of my reply: Rifter is lacking CPU - as is the wolf. Also its tracking bonus is trash due to how bad small arty's are.
And to the OP: Dramiel is not the kind of frigates. It's super trash. Daredevil is, however, the best frig in the game.
New Tormentor > Dramiel.
All new T1's > 90% of faction/Pirate frigs.
All new T1's > Interceptors |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Review and Evaluation
Greater Realms
48
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
The Rifter is just as dangerous now, it just needs to be fit differently and when it is, it is deadly, even in the hands of a newer pilot.
It needs Neut.
When you fit this and fly at range (Barrage with falloff) with a 400 plate, you can take most things down, apart from other Projectile ships.
For me, it really is a mini mini Cane.
Regards
*edit*
I love the new balancing of the Frigates. It means anything can take anything. Sure there will be some stalemates (my Rail vs Incursus ends this way mostly), but generally speaking you need to understand what you are going up against.
Use the 'look at' to try and work out quickly what you are up against. This is very useful, especially given the changes to the Destroyers too. |
Paikis
Armarium Trading
101
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Paikis wrote:Rifter is fine, L2P BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I haven't laughed that hard since i was a little girl :) P.s. Constructive element of my reply: Rifter is lacking CPU - as is the wolf. Also its tracking bonus is trash due to how bad small arty's are. And to the OP: Dramiel is not the kind of frigates. It's super trash. Daredevil is, however, the best frig in the game. New Tormentor > Dramiel. All new T1's > 90% of faction/Pirate frigs. All new T1's > Interceptors
My last day in RvB:
http://rvbeve.com/red/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=266345
http://rvbeve.com/red/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=266364
http://rvbeve.com/red/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=266366
http://rvbeve.com/red/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=266367
http://rvbeve.com/red/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=266437
http://rvbeve.com/red/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=266403
All those kills with the one Rifter. Then Alexander killed it with a merlin he fit with no tank and 2 webs, which killed me because i didn't figure out what was going on until it was too late.
Why does the Rifter need more CPU? |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
225
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 19:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm glad that a variety of T1 frigates are being flown with success. It's more interesting than seeing 85% Rifters, 5% Incursus, 5% Merlin, 5% Punishers...
An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
384
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 07:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....
-Liang
Correct. The Merlin has always been the secret king of T1 frigs.
Although I've been demolishing Rifters lately with my Kestral and Condor... so A LOT of it is pilot skill.
Heretic Army Warlord and Diplomat
Host of Frigfest
http://judelloyd.blog.com/
http://kbarmy.heretic-army.biz/
|
The VC's
Spack Force 5
7
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Posted - 2012.07.29 10:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Just food for thought.
A Punisher with gatling pulses, a neut and scram is not cap stable. A Rifter with AC's, neut, scram and web is.
Who is winning the cap war, who needs cap the most.
Rifter's are fine, they just need to be flown like a Rifter. It's adaptability is it's special power |
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