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Carson Achura
Colonial Defense Agency
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:19:00 -
[1]
Today I wanted to sell a certain wormhole. And I used Raid'En as the third party. From what I know he's a pretty good third party. Well today he ****ed up to say the least. Now, you must understand I have been logged off for some time in this wormhole at a safespot roughly 16 AU from anything. I havnt moved from this location in 2 weeks till today. And when I did warp to my GSC to get my salvage and other stuff to take out with me also to get the HS BM to sell the wormhole I didnt notice any pos on DSCAN as i was more then 14 AU from the pos that was later found...
The buyer wanted a pos free system and didnt require i check the system so I figured its pos free and he can have it. So we got Raid'En to get in here and third party. I stated that the exit for the WH is the same system as the contract for the BM is coming from so Raid when ahead and accepted it and got the isk from the buyer, but then he contracted the bookmarks to the buyer without sending me the isk right away. He then undocked and said he was going to see if it was safe. So he foudn out it wasnt safe.
But WAIT Why the **** would he make a contract to the buyer containing the bookmarks before proper survey of the system? He should have checked before he made contract. Anyway long story short i didnt get my isk and he got the location of the exit via the contract location. So now if he wanted to he can come barge in here and get my system without paying 250 and wipe out this random tower.
My ultimate point is Raid'En ****ed up and he can't be trusted like this.
Below is a download of the whole convo completely unedited.
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?nl3lhyptvvef68f
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Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:23:00 -
[2]
/care.
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Valoric Liao
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:25:00 -
[3]
Wait.... what part was your scam, exactly?
Eve For Fun! - August 31st: Gate Camping... not so fun. |
ElJo123
Sons Of 0din
The Strangers.
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:29:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Carson Achura
The buyer wanted a pos free system [...] I didnt notice any pos on DSCAN as i was more then 14 AU from the pos that was later found...
i didnt get my isk and he got the location of the exit via the contract location.
ok
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Ran Khanon
Amarr
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Carson Achura
The buyer wanted a pos free system and didnt require i check the system so I figured its pos free and he can have it.
> BEEP
> DERP
> ***ERROR***
> SENTENCE DOES NOT COMPUTE!
> Abort, Retry, Fail?
Recruiting. |
Sinister Dextor
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:34:00 -
[6]
My ultimate point is you ****ed up
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Carson Achura
Colonial Defense Agency
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:40:00 -
[7]
You are right, I did **** up to some degree but this is about Raid'En's methods when it comes to handling 3rd party matters. He ****ed up.
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Razzor Death
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:44:00 -
[8]
Good day to you sir, you appear that have made a mistake when you hit "post thread" I'm sure this was a simple mistake and you simply meant to hit "post reply" as clearly from reading your text this is nothing "thread worthy".
Please next time when posting be a little more careful as now 100s of people are going to read your drivel and possibly commit suicide from lack of care.
Fly safe little buddy o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o77o7o7
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I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v |
The Ambusher
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2010.08.31 23:03:00 -
[9]
You fail, quit blaming others.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.08.31 23:24:00 -
[10]
all those who tried to sell or buy wormholes knows that a system can't be traded if there is already someone inside.
noone will pay for a system having a tower already inside right ? why paying for something you had to destroy ? destroying it need time and ISK (potential ships loss)
you can see that the fact there is no tower is important on the 1st post of my thread :
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1347422&page=1#1
for security reason i won't edit this linked post for some days.
you can also see it on a post later, when someone said he was willing to pay for a system with small tower :
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1347422&page=2#46
you can also be sure he knew it, as this guy bought the womrhole he tried here to sell from me, some time ago, he also post on my thread with his alt Zelot Blueice :
http://img46.imageshack.us/i/pressepapiers2b.jpg/
alt who was on exit system when i arrived, and that i found on a heavy interdictor at the exit of the system, trying to kill me after he left the chat.)
some hours ago the buyer contacted me, because he saw something strange ; the system was raided some days ago, and seems carson corp lost all his pos and modules.
you can see some killmails here : http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=64607&scl_id=38
after that, i mailed carson for confirmation, saying he had to prove that the system was still clean for the trade.
he said there were no pos.
here's a screenshot of the mails :
http://img202.imageshack.us/i/pressepapiers1q.jpg/
at the same time you can see he say said he didn't know there were one, and that anyway he don't care about that part.
here you can see 2 screens as proof the tower was here before, if you look at the time on the contract where i got the bookmarks, and the time of the picture, you can see for sure that it's impossible that this pos and all mods were anchored after i had the BM.
http://img827.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=20100831220050.jpg
the job of a 3rd party is to secure BOTH parties.
the 3rd party don't work for the guys who pay him, he works to be sure the 2 parties do what they have to do, pay what they have to pay, and for what they are paying for.
the deal was for a system free of online tower.
the system was NOT free of online tower. carson part of the deal is not respected, and so there is no reason that he got the money for completion of the contract.
what he gave me where BM to a non-free WH.
you can have some in 2mn of probing if you want.
BM linking to a non-free WH system have 0 value.
they are not what the buyer asked for.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.08.31 23:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Raid''En on 31/08/2010 23:59:29
Edited by: Raid''En on 31/08/2010 23:58:33
well now that i explained on what part carson have not fulfilled his part of the deal, time to look at what he said (and at replies).
(not the good order ? well seems i failed in that case :P)
example :
Originally by: Ran Khanon
Originally by: Carson Achura
The buyer wanted a pos free system and didnt require i check the system so I figured its pos free and he can have it.
> BEEP
> DERP
> ***ERROR***
> SENTENCE DOES NOT COMPUTE!
> Abort, Retry, Fail?
so...
well seeing original post and replies it seems there isn't much to say.
he said by himself buyer wanted a system free of pos.
he said by himself he didn't checked if that was the case before begining trade.
what have i to add ?
well only that :
http://img52.imageshack.us/i/pressepapiers3.jpg/
(if you think this is not enough proof SOMER lottery have my full api key, and so can confirm if really there's a need :P)
as you can see the buyer had paid me. i had the money to pay carson, the buyer wouldn't be able to scam him.
the next point was so to be sure that carson don't try to scam the buyer... and well you know the end.
the problem would have been if he got the location BEFORE having paid.
if the guy had paid, there is no importance that i check before, after, or didn't check at all
me checking wasn't on the condition of the contract, i did it because... i was 2 jumps from exit
but for this case it would have been a real problem if i didn't checked.
because buyer would have tell "tower !!!" some hours later and i would have a bit of pain checking if tower was not the buyer trying to scam (he can ask friends from another corp to put a tower quickly, and after say it was here before)
this would have been a real problem, and i would have need lots of hours to know who is right.
(and no, even well known 3rd party won't check everytime, what's important is resolving the problem if there is one, checking will help, that's all)
i have money. if all is clean seller will have it.
if it's a problem not having it first, it mean seller is fishy.
(btw at first he tried to contract BM to me with the 250m at price...)
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.09.01 00:43:00 -
[12]
So...why'd you keep the isk anyways? You're not really a neutral third party after all are you?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.09.01 00:53:00 -
[13]
So TL;DR is that he scammed some guy for 250M isk and the guy that got scammed still doesn't realised he got scammed?
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.09.01 01:05:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Raid''En on 01/09/2010 01:15:24
Edited by: Raid''En on 01/09/2010 01:14:03
Originally by: Clown Pron
So...why'd you keep the isk anyways? You're not really a neutral third party after all are you?
you can see on the last screenshot the ISKs got refunded to the guy who gave it to me, i don't have them anymore.
edit : ah i see, the link were wrong sorry, link have been updated, you can now see what happen on my wallet, and that all is clean
it's this screen ;
http://img52.imageshack.us/i/pressepapiers3.jpg/
as you can see i got 250M from a guy (the buyer), and next line i gave them back to him.
if you look previous lines you could see i had way more money received before, if i really wanted to cheat, i would have stole that :P
(hope my wall of text is clear enough, as english is not my first language)
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Somerset Mahm
Somer's Omnibus Exploration and Reclamation
Cognitive Development
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:09:00 -
[15]
I do hold Raid'En's full API as the escrow for his lotteries. I can confirm the following:
At 2010-08-31 21:48:00, slavepray sent Raid'En 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3200759059
At 2010-08-31 23:35:00, Raid'En sent slavepray 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3201099537
tl;dr nothing to see here, move along.
---
SOMER Lotteries - http://somer.idiofx.com/
SOMER Escrow Services: Third-Party |
Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Somerset Mahm
I do hold Raid'En's full API as the escrow for his lotteries. I can confirm the following:
At 2010-08-31 21:48:00, slavepray sent Raid'En 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3200759059
At 2010-08-31 23:35:00, Raid'En sent slavepray 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3201099537
tl;dr nothing to see here, move along.
While I agree with you there is nothing to see, you could so easily be an alt..
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Carson Achura
Colonial Defense Agency
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Posted - 2010.09.01 03:55:00 -
[17]
You are all missing the point. This isnt about the ISK, its about his methods. Why would he just GIVE out the bookmark freely to the other guy even if I dont get my isk. I know the buyer didnt ****ing want it but thats still no excuse to violate my privacy and be a ****tie 3rd party.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Carson Achura
You all got the point. This isnt about the ISK, its about his methods. Why shouldn't he just GIVE out the bookmark freely to the other guy because I dont deserve the isk. I know the 3rd Party didnt ****ing want my broken Deal. Thats a good excuse to violate my privacy and call me out on being ****tie client.
Fix'd it!
--
Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
Daergaar
Caldari
Yama Seki
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:56:00 -
[19]
Probing is hard?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.09.01 05:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Daergaar
Probing is hard?
Dont even start down this "selling wormholes" path.. its all ******ed..
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
JoeBobSmithHenryFord
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Posted - 2010.09.01 08:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: JoeBobSmithHenryFord on 01/09/2010 08:43:04
Originally by: Carson Achura
You are all missing the point. This isnt about the ISK, its about his methods. Why would he just GIVE out the bookmark freely to the other guy even if I dont get my isk. I know the buyer didnt ****ing want it but thats still no excuse to violate my privacy and be a ****tie 3rd party.
Soo you tried to sell off a wormhole that already had people in it, got burned because the third party actually did its job, and you think you still deserve the money?
/me golf-clap
The third party technically had the right to do whatever they wanted as you failed to do your part of the deal in the first place. It is as if a titan pilot was selling his titan, brought a Kestrel to the transaction (I mean for god sakes bookmarks cost nothing to make, and its not like anyone couldn't scan down the thing if the system was close by). Then expected to be paid the same price nonetheless but got mad because they didn't get the kestrel back.
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Carson Achura
Colonial Defense Agency
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Posted - 2010.09.01 22:31:00 -
[22]
The third party GAVE out the wormhole bookmarks to the client before he even went into the wormhole. Read the convo. He gave it out before he knew anything. Thats what ive been trying to tell you all.
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c00lina
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Posted - 2010.09.01 23:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Carson Achura
... Thats what ive been trying to tell you all.
We get that bit. The thing is that no one cares
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jimmyjam
Gallente
Sinner Among Saints
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2010.09.01 23:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: c00lina
Originally by: Carson Achura
... Thats what ive been trying to tell you all.
We get that bit. The thing is that no one cares
This
Insert witty sig here _ _ _ _ |
Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.09.02 00:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Carson Achura
The third party GAVE out the wormhole bookmarks to the client before he even went into the wormhole. Read the convo. He gave it out before he knew anything. Thats what ive been trying to tell you all.
And you failed to uphold your end of the bargain...
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Xereyn
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Posted - 2010.09.02 01:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Carson Achura
The third party GAVE out the wormhole bookmarks to the client before he even went into the wormhole. Read the convo. He gave it out before he knew anything. Thats what ive been trying to tell you all.
So... while holding the money in escrow, he gave the client the relevant information to confirm that the deal was fair and the wormhole was empty as advertised.
Once again, we seem to be at "he did his job as neutral third party".
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AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.02 03:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Somerset Mahm
I do hold Raid'En's full API as the escrow for his lotteries. I can confirm the following:
At 2010-08-31 21:48:00, slavepray sent Raid'En 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3200759059
At 2010-08-31 23:35:00, Raid'En sent slavepray 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3201099537
tl;dr nothing to see here, move along.
I thought the general concensus for 3rd parties was to delete the API from your records after the lottery had run it's course with no problems.
Also, what do you use to check the transactions?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.09.02 04:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
Originally by: Somerset Mahm
I do hold Raid'En's full API as the escrow for his lotteries. I can confirm the following:
At 2010-08-31 21:48:00, slavepray sent Raid'En 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3200759059
At 2010-08-31 23:35:00, Raid'En sent slavepray 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3201099537
tl;dr nothing to see here, move along.
I thought the general concensus for 3rd parties was to delete the API from your records after the lottery had run it's course with no problems.
Also, what do you use to check the transactions?
I would be highly surprised if any of them actually DO delete peoples APIs. (Watch them all come here now and say they do it, with no way of proving it either way)
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.09.02 18:12:00 -
[29]
i was the one who ask sommer to confirm the transaction with api key, he do this with my agreement.
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AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.02 18:22:00 -
[30]
Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 02/09/2010 18:23:12
Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 02/09/2010 18:22:47
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Originally by: AtheistOfFail
Originally by: Somerset Mahm
I do hold Raid'En's full API as the escrow for his lotteries. I can confirm the following:
At 2010-08-31 21:48:00, slavepray sent Raid'En 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3200759059
At 2010-08-31 23:35:00, Raid'En sent slavepray 250,000,000 ISK. Reference ID #3201099537
tl;dr nothing to see here, move along.
I thought the general concensus for 3rd parties was to delete the API from your records after the lottery had run it's course with no problems.
Also, what do you use to check the transactions?
I would be highly surprised if any of them actually DO delete peoples APIs. (Watch them all come here now and say they do it, with no way of proving it either way)
Every lottery i hold, the API is deleted from records after 24 hours. Ask anyone who's had 2 or more lotteries with me and they'll tell you how annoying it is to have to resend every time. 
Edit:
Raid'En: If this is a failscade on your part, i'm not letting this fall off the first page.
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