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Geranai Yoda
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Posted - 2010.09.02 05:43:00 -
[1]
Hi everyone, I'm programming, or trying to program, a tool (maybe a website in a few months) that suggests agent "best picks" (I hope to add also standing filtering via api keys).
The problem is: what is "best"?
Agent level, quality and system security status gives estimated value for the rewards, but what about "real" value?
At the moment, I'm working with this data:
Agent:
- Level
- Quality
- System Security Status
- Corporation + Faction
System:
- Security Status
- Ships killed (total last 7 days, via api)
- Pods killed (same)
- Faction/Police killed (same)
- Jumps (same)
- Adjacent systems (same data)
- Systems in the same constellation (same data)
What I found out is that there are a lot of systems with good (per level/quality/secstatus) agents, but very low traffic.
Some of them have a very low number of ships killed per day, but maybe they are risky for some other reason, like adjacent low or null sec systems (like in Orvolle or Torrinos).
Or maybe corp/faction LP store for these agents isn't very good.
So I'm looking for some hints, what defines a "good" agent?
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.09.02 09:00:00 -
[2]
I first look at Agent location. Then I look at Agent quality followed very closely by Agent Division.
It seems to me that Agents located deep in the center of it's Faction controlled space seem to offer more encounter missions against the NPC Pirate Corps, which is what I look for. Agents located near enemy Faction borders seem to offer more encounter missions against enemy Empire Factions.
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Vasko Baslageon
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.09.02 10:20:00 -
[3]
Good luck with the tool, could be amazingly helpfull if it works!
When I first started missioning I just jumped on the nearest corp with a Security division.
Being only an occasional player it took me bloody ages to get to lvl3, only then did I look for their lvl4 agent in security only to find... they didn't have one! Bloody annoyed so I was. I think the Corp was President.
The lvl 3 was in a brilliantly quite .3 system though, good money and LP but nowhere to advance to.
My point being if you could incorporate some way of showing level agent advancement too, and possibly distance between successive agent... could be handy?
Oh and if I could have the moon on a stick and a flyingpig please ;)
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Padegejas
Minmatar
Confurius
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Posted - 2010.09.02 10:45:00 -
[4]
As mentioned above very important feature of agent is his division. The agent might have great quality and be in a perfect system security wise, but if he's in some kind of division which gives majority of the missions with mining and curier tasks - this agent will bee of no interest to most of the mission runers.
Other important thing which should be possible to find and filter out is if the agent is some kind of story line, or epic arc agent as these agents won't give you any missions unless you compleete 16 missions from other agents nearby or are on an epick mission arc.
The third thing which I would reccomend to consider is distance from the system agent is located to the nearest trade hub. This is not the most important feature of the agent but still adds quite some value.
 Originally by: Geranai Yoda
Hi everyone, I'm programming, or trying to program, a tool (maybe a website in a few months) that suggests agent "best picks" (I hope to add also standing filtering via api keys).
The problem is: what is "best"?
Agent level, quality and system security status gives estimated value for the rewards, but what about "real" value?
At the moment, I'm working with this data:
Agent:
- Level
- Quality
- System Security Status
- Corporation + Faction
System:
- Security Status
- Ships killed (total last 7 days, via api)
- Pods killed (same)
- Faction/Police killed (same)
- Jumps (same)
- Adjacent systems (same data)
- Systems in the same constellation (same data)
What I found out is that there are a lot of systems with good (per level/quality/secstatus) agents, but very low traffic.
Some of them have a very low number of ships killed per day, but maybe they are risky for some other reason, like adjacent low or null sec systems (like in Orvolle or Torrinos).
Or maybe corp/faction LP store for these agents isn't very good.
So I'm looking for some hints, what defines a "good" agent?
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Digerati Calmae
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Posted - 2010.09.02 11:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Digerati Calmae on 02/09/2010 11:32:46
For me, a high value agent would be one in a system with low security as possible but not adjacent to low-sec. For example, the agent is in 0.5 but surrounding systems are .5 or above. This is to maximise rewards while avoiding being sent to low-sec.
Edit: Posted with the wrong character.
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Geranai Yoda
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Posted - 2010.09.02 21:36:00 -
[6]
Advancement in the same corp is a good point! I'll check on that.
For agent division, I forgot to mention I'm already differentiating between combat (kill missions > 50%) and courier agents. I have no clue about the research agents, so I'm discarding them at the moment.
Also, I'm working to have data about normal ("basic") agents and nearest storyline agent (it's handy to have one close by or in the same station).
The trade hub thing is another good point, but I don't know how to get (and maintain) a good list of trade hubs... we can all name a few but I wanted to have a more complete list, any clues on how to get that?
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Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.02 22:11:00 -
[7]
There already is a mission agent website: EVE Agents
It basicly does what it needs to and has been a great help. However some of the features you are talking about sound like they would be a nice addition to it. So perhaps you could start with something similar and add features as you see fit.
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Akisawa
Caldari
Path Of The Cursed
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Posted - 2010.09.02 23:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Geranai Yoda
Advancement in the same corp is a good point! I'll check on that.
For agent division, I forgot to mention I'm already differentiating between combat (kill missions > 50%) and courier agents. I have no clue about the research agents, so I'm discarding them at the moment.
Also, I'm working to have data about normal ("basic") agents and nearest storyline agent (it's handy to have one close by or in the same station).
The trade hub thing is another good point, but I don't know how to get (and maintain) a good list of trade hubs... we can all name a few but I wanted to have a more complete list, any clues on how to get that?
The hubs is really just a nice flavour feature, but if you would want to get into it - The 4 most known and wanted hubs are: Jita, Amarr, Dodixie and Rens. You can just provide that list and # of jumps from these 4 systems to agent, thats pretty much all info most people will ever need.
---
Improving my day by ruining yours
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.02 23:41:00 -
[9]
This is whats important to me..
Is the corp i run missions for have an LP store CLOSE to Jita/Amarr?
if it is.. i spend a day floating around cashing in my lp. usually richer for it too.
Originally by: Akisawa
Originally by: Geranai Yoda
Advancement in the same corp is a good point! I'll check on that.
For agent division, I forgot to mention I'm already differentiating between combat (kill missions > 50%) and courier agents. I have no clue about the research agents, so I'm discarding them at the moment.
Also, I'm working to have data about normal ("basic") agents and nearest storyline agent (it's handy to have one close by or in the same station).
The trade hub thing is another good point, but I don't know how to get (and maintain) a good list of trade hubs... we can all name a few but I wanted to have a more complete list, any clues on how to get that?
The hubs is really just a nice flavour feature, but if you would want to get into it - The 4 most known and wanted hubs are: Jita, Amarr, Dodixie and Rens. You can just provide that list and # of jumps from these 4 systems to agent, thats pretty much all info most people will ever need.
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.09.03 01:35:00 -
[10]
I think you really need the user's input and compute best based upon that. For instance, for most people combat divisions are what you want; unless this is for an alt that will be afk dual-boxing courier missions for standings where best means something quite different.
Also, how much a user cares about system activity will vary: someone in a very expensive ship who salvages might want quiet while someone in a cheap ship who doesn't salvage may not care as much. etc. Distance to losec might be important for both safety but also so you don't get one of the send-em-to losec missions that were added. It would be better if the user had some input into "best"
My limited understanding is that it is not whether the storyline agent is "close"; rather it is that storyline agents you don't want are not closer. E.g., your agent being the closest at 4 jumps is better than it being at 2 jumps but an undesirable one being 1 jump away.
GL!
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Geranai Yoda
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Posted - 2010.09.03 03:10:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Geranai Yoda on 03/09/2010 03:14:32
As I dig into it, it looks more and more difficult to extract smart assumptions, due to lack of information :(
For example, the value of LP store items would be a nice indicator for faction/corp attractiveness, but it looks like there isn't any practical way to obtain a list (maybe parsing DaOpa LP database) and check the prices, since they are exchanged by contracts.
So maybe it would be better to have a simple search/filter function and sortable table containing:
- Agent level
- Agent estimated value (factoring in quality and system sec status)
- Agent Corporation and Faction (with a warning if corporation doesn't have high level agents of the chosen type)
- Agent division (or just "Combat" vs "Courier")
- Agent required standing
- Closest storyline (combat or courier, quality)
- System estimated activity (factoring in jumps per day and faction/police ships killed per day)
- System estimated risk (factoring in ship and pod kills in system and nearby systems)
- Presence of low sec systems in constellation or adjacent systems
- Distance from major trade hubs
Sounds good?
Edit: clarification
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.09.03 10:29:00 -
[12]
Sounds ok to me. You have a lot of work to do and I wish you luck.
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Killerjock
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Posted - 2010.09.03 10:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Geranai Yoda
Agent division (or just "Combat" vs "Courier")
Combat vs Courier doesn't quite strike it, in my view.
For instance, internal security has a higher encounter rating versus command (98% vs 95%), yet I usualyl favour command vs internal security as they offer better rewards.
Also 50%? Advisory has roughly 51% encounter missions, but if I'm looking for combat agents I don't even look at that.
You might want to ask the user what to prioritize and sort them accordingly, or just let him check the division_s_ he likes.
Again, closeness to major trade hubs for me is a nono. I have no problem in hauling
crap to a hub once every couple days, but I don't want to be annoyed by a swarm of ninja salvagers. I like my armor plates. So make that a selectable search: close is better or close is worse?
Nice enterprise.
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Arriaz
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Posted - 2010.09.03 12:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Geranai Yoda
Edited by: Geranai Yoda on 03/09/2010 03:14:32
As I dig into it, it looks more and more difficult to extract smart assumptions, due to lack of information :(
For example, the value of LP store items would be a nice indicator for faction/corp attractiveness, but it looks like there isn't any practical way to obtain a list (maybe parsing DaOpa LP database) and check the prices, since they are exchanged by contracts.
So maybe it would be better to have a simple search/filter function and sortable table containing:
- Agent level
- Agent estimated value (factoring in quality and system sec status)
- Agent Corporation and Faction (with a warning if corporation doesn't have high level agents of the chosen type)
- Agent division (or just "Combat" vs "Courier")
- Agent required standing
- Closest storyline (combat or courier, quality)
- System estimated activity (factoring in jumps per day and faction/police ships killed per day)
- System estimated risk (factoring in ship and pod kills in system and nearby systems)
- Presence of low sec systems in constellation or adjacent systems
- Distance from major trade hubs
Sounds good?
Edit: clarification
You might also consider adding "Closest Storyline Agent", its division and Corporation allowing for easier faction standing increase planning
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Elldranga
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Posted - 2010.09.03 14:43:00 -
[15]
I dunno if you can really do this.... I think you've set yourself a bigger task than you think.
You've got a good partial list there... BUT you need to track LP values... which means you need to enter the LP items available and have it be possible to enter the current market value for such items.
There's actually one major other element that would be needed too for an optimized agent, but if you don't already know it, I'm not going to publicly post.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.03 16:42:00 -
[16]
For the LP store, I think you'd set yourself a hideously complex task if you actually want to track the value of the different stores ù you'd have to parse the costs and combinations of all the items that can go into the purchase of those rewards and also track the expected price of them.
A simpler route might be to just do a rough estimate of how saturated, for the lack of a better term, each store is ù e.g. "everyone" uses the Caldari combat corp store (Caldari Navy, Corporate Police Force, Space Lane Patrol etc), and the items don't sell for that much, so it's oversaturated. Compare this to, say, the Guristas storeà
àthen your problem rather becomes a political one of finding some kind of consensus about how popular and valuable the various LP stores are.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Arkon Havok
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Posted - 2010.09.05 02:42:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Arkon Havok on 05/09/2010 02:43:03
As far as finding a combat agent that won't give you missions in low-sec, the important thing is to make sure there are no low-sec systems in the same constellation as the agent. My agent has a 0.4 system right next door but never sends me to low-sec for a combat mission since that system is in a separate const. Combat missions are almost always in the same constellation as the agent. It can also be nice to have your agent located within a couple jumps of every system in that const so that you never have to fly far to get to the mission.
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Geranai Yoda
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Posted - 2010.09.05 03:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Killerjock
Originally by: Geranai Yoda
Agent division (or just "Combat" vs "Courier")
Combat vs Courier doesn't quite strike it, in my view.
Well, it was a "or"... at the moment I'm thinking about a multi-select with all the divisions and the additional options "any", "combat" and "courier".
Originally by: Killerjock
Again, closeness to major trade hubs for me is a nono. I have no problem in hauling crap to a hub once every couple days, but I don't want to be annoyed by a swarm of ninja salvagers. I like my armor plates. So make that a selectable search: close is better or close is worse?
for that I think it's way better to check system activity (jumps per day and faction/police killed per day), but I'll live that field sortable
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Geranai Yoda
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Posted - 2010.09.05 03:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Elldranga
I dunno if you can really do this.... I think you've set yourself a bigger task than you think.
You've got a good partial list there... BUT you need to track LP values... which means you need to enter the LP items available and have it be possible to enter the current market value for such items.
Originally by: Tippia
For the LP store, I think you'd set yourself a hideously complex task if you actually want to track the value of the different stores ù you'd have to parse the costs and combinations of all the items that can go into the purchase of those rewards and also track the expected price of them.
As I said previously, at the moment the LP store option looks quite unfeasible: even with all LP store item lists (parsing DaOpa database), most part of them are exchanged only over contracts and there are no resources (via api or else) to check prices and trade volume :(
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Sagesse
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Posted - 2010.09.05 07:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tippia
For the LP store, I think you'd set yourself a hideously complex task if you actually want to track the value of the different stores ù you'd have to parse the costs and combinations of all the items that can go into the purchase of those rewards and also track the expected price of them.
A simpler route might be to just do a rough estimate of how saturated, for the lack of a better term, each store is ù e.g. "everyone" uses the Caldari combat corp store (Caldari Navy, Corporate Police Force, Space Lane Patrol etc), and the items don't sell for that much, so it's oversaturated. Compare this to, say, the Guristas storeà
àthen your problem rather becomes a political one of finding some kind of consensus about how popular and valuable the various LP stores are.
how about just listing items that are better than T2, for instance if you list out the gallente LP store almost nothing is  , better than T2 usually indicates at least moderate value
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