Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Helle Acoma
|
Posted - 2010.09.04 15:16:00 -
[1]
I wasn't sure where to ask this question since it's quite complex, but since this seems to be the only help forum I'll ask here first. Ok so this takes a bit of explaining so I'll just post a hypothetical situation. Stop me when it doesn't make sense.
5 directors in a corp and 1 ceo. There is 2004 corp shares (the extra 1004 created via CEO vote). All the shares are split among the 5 directors and ceo evenly. Thats 334 shares per person. All equal.
Now as long as all 6 people have the skills and equal shares they can keep the corp in balance by replacing the ceo if necessary. Let's imagine that for one reason or another a director is forcibly removed from his position (lets say heÆs a spy). He is kicked from the corp. He still has shares as there is no way (I think) to forcibly remove shares from a player.
There is now a situation where a spy has shares for the corp. The spy director is replaced by a new director and another 334 shares are created to keep balance of power. Are there any problems with what IÆve said, can shares be forcibly removed? What power (in terms of voting) does a player with shares to a corp, but who is not a member of the corp have?
Another issue I would greatly like an answer to is if the number of shares given to a player equates directly to voting power?
In other words If there are 100 shares, and I have 27 shares, and you have 31 shares does that give exactly 27% and 31% of the vote to each of us respectively?
|
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.09.04 19:24:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Helle Acoma He is kicked from the corp.
That would require a vote as he owns more than 5% of the shares. Be sure to remove his roles before you start the vote, else he might take your assets while the vote is going on.
Originally by: Helle Acoma He still has shares as there is no way (I think) to forcibly remove shares from a player.
Correct.
Originally by: Helle Acoma There is now a situation where a spy has shares for the corp. The spy director is replaced by a new director and another 334 shares are created to keep balance of power.
If this happens once, yes. If it happens more, the balance of power will shift, assuming the kicked member is spiteful and will vote against whatever vote is brought up. In the initial situation you need 4 people (out of 6) to get more than 50% of the votes, after one gets replaced you still only need 4 people (out of 7) to get more than 50% of the votes, but if it happens again you'll need 5 people (out of 8, or out of 6 in the corp) to get more than 50% of the votes. If it happens twice more, you'll need all directors to vote in favour. Once more on top of that, and you won't win any votes. A highly unlikely situation of course, but it's probably better to plan it in such a way that its occurrence becomes impossible instead of just unlikely.
Originally by: Helle Acoma What power (in terms of voting) does a player with shares to a corp, but who is not a member of the corp have?
He can vote, can see all past and present votes, will get notified about war declarations. I think that's about it.
Originally by: Helle Acoma Another issue I would greatly like an answer to is if the number of shares given to a player equates directly to voting power?
In other words If there are 100 shares, and I have 27 shares, and you have 31 shares does that give exactly 27% and 31% of the vote to each of us respectively?
Correct.
Another thing to take into account is that any corp member can run for CEO if he has 5% or more of the shares. This will start a one day vote.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
gfldex
|
Posted - 2010.09.04 21:54:00 -
[3]
Imagine the following. There is a DT that will take 2 days for patch deployment and depletion of Aspirin stocks.
A very clever shareholder that got >= 5% of all shares and is member of the corp (doesn't have to be a director) starts a run for CEO vote right before that DT kicks in. He tries hard and succedes to be online right after that DT is finished (needs a bit luck ofc.). Now you have one vote for that CEO out of one votes.
That means he will win the run for CEO as long as he manages to be online right after that long DT. If he succedes he can remove all directors from that corp and strip the operation nakit.
Long story short. Create a corp, let the CEO take all shares and never touch them again. If you can't trust the CEO you are ****ed anyway because he can remove all directors utilising a long DT in the same fasion.
If any of the directors can't or doesn't want to trust the CEO anymore, leave that corp.
As many features in EVE that are around since TQ went live, shares don't really work.
|
Mal Lokrano
Gallente The Executives IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.09.04 22:24:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Mal Lokrano on 04/09/2010 22:25:42 You should never assign shares to someone based purely on position. If you do make sure they only have less than 5%. This will make sure that if a spy enters the corp he will have less of a chance of doing a lot of damage. Shares should only be assigned to people you trust, and trust is the relative term, because people can easily change in this game and break your trust. You see this all the time. ____________________________________________ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always ascertain the vintage of the first two.
Don't bug me ingame about diplomats, I don't know wh |
Mac Quaid
|
Posted - 2010.09.05 18:42:00 -
[5]
They really need to make the shares make sense. In US corporations, a CEO can own 51% & he has final say in all votes. So you don't have to worry about all of these underhanded schemes of losing your hold on the corporation. But also, it seems that who owns the corp & issues the shares should have final say on control. Although there should probably need to be a way to create stock splits and/or reversals if they want to simulate stock market value. I'm not really sure how the whole share system works in EVE to tell you the truth.
|
Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 00:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 06/09/2010 00:57:51 I'm in a situation where my main owns 51% of the shares in my alt corp.
My main sees all votes and gets an Eve-mail whenever a vote is proposed.
My main can vote on all proposed votes if I choose. My main cannot propose a vote (you need to be incorp to do that).
My alt with the balance of the shares and CEO of the alt corp can effectively run the corp without any input from my main.
Should I wish to, I could propose a vote for 1,000,000 new shares and allocate them to my CEO alt, as long as my main doesn't oppose the vote (he can support or abstain and it has no real effect).
TL:DR - as long as the majority of your shares are in safe hands you're OK.....if you let someone have the majority of the shares, even if they're out of corp, with a bit of planning you can fix the situation.
Edit: incidentally my main has never been in my alt corp. The shares were given while he was out of corp.
______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University |
Helle Acoma
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 15:45:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the replies, Estel really highlighted my worry in this regard to the balance of shares. My guess is that you could simply scale up the number of shares so that the "defector" lets say, has a tiny proportion of the percentage.
For the situation I'm considering using the share system it seems to work fine. Thanks for the cautionary example gfldex, but what you outlined isn't exactly a worry in the case I'm considering.
Is there a limit on the number of shares that can be created?
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 15:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Helle Acoma Is there a limit on the number of shares that can be created?
Given that shares are a number in a database there has to be a upper limit. My guess would be 2^64. In a bad case it's 2^32.
|
Helle Acoma
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 16:27:00 -
[9]
Can I assume thats alot?
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 16:33:00 -
[10]
dex@dexhome:~$ echo "2^64"|bc 18446744073709551616
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |