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Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.04 19:07:00 - [1] Hi to all that read this post. I over the course of a few days have noticed macro miners popping up in my local systems. I File a petetion for each one, requesting that CCP look to suspendthese accounts/ban etc. Much to my dismay, i find that they are still here! Perhaps it wouldnt be so bad if it hadnt forced the 20 or so people who use the system for miningto up sticks and move away. It has essentially disrupted gameplay for players who actively play EVE by people who think it is acceptable to use programs to play it for them... I for one am extremely disserpointed by CCP's response, granted it has been promt in replying to the petition but actions are what is required here. I'm not sure if these 'speedy' response is the same for anyone else who has reported this and or any other petitions, but i would sure like to hear from everyone who has had an experience with petitions and to share your views on the topic. Peace out Asteria
EvilCheez	Posted - 2010.09.04 19:30:00 - [2] There are corps that specialize in ganking macros, but I am not sure of their names. You may want to post it on crime and punishment to see if they hang out there. Also you could just gank them yourself.
evilsmurfs	Posted - 2010.09.04 19:43:00 - [3] I hate to feed the trolls.... but... and what makes you think they are macro miners ? I have reported several macro miners over the last year or two and i think a few have been banned. The one i later learned was just some poor stoner that probably had no life and played eve for 8 hours a day. I'm starting to think ccp wants us "the players" to take care of macro miners. thus HULKAGEDDON is allowed ..
Aranial Gallente Empyrean Warriors Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2010.09.04 19:48:00 - [4] Hulkageddon = win Though it did screw mine and the corps sec status
Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.04 20:02:00 - [5] Originally by: evilsmurfs I hate to feed the trolls.... but... and what makes you think they are macro miners ? It is tricky to find who they are, but the guys i have reported have been mining none stop for two days as far as i can see. I log in the night and during the day, oddly enough after DT its always bang on 1 hour after DT they log back in. I think i will gank them myself. Although didnt realise there was corps that did it too! thats cool. Shame the sec status gets killed off when you do it though
shady trader	Posted - 2010.09.04 20:06:00 - [6] Asteria, CCP don't ban single accounts for macro mining. That they do is gather intel till they have mapped out the whole network. Then they ban the lot, this means that the rest of the network of macro accounts cannot be used to support the replacing of the lost accounts and equipment. The last major banning session was called unholy rage. If you want the fan fest videos you will see that CCP admitted that unholy rage had a significant effect on the number of active accounts. So much so they were surprised how many accounts were involved and have committed extra resource to the hunt. There is also a number of dev logs related to unholy rage that are worth reading. I believe that have been busy inventing of the tech1 unholy rage blueprint and are in the process of building the tech2 version of unholy rage, this will be released on the eve universe soon (TM). I have seen groups of account get banned. If you add groups of them to your contacts list they will disappear on mass one day, when CCP drop the hammer on them. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions.
Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.04 20:18:00 - [7] Originally by: shady trader Asteria, CCP don't ban single accounts for macro mining. That they do is gather intel till they have mapped out the whole network. Then they ban the lot, this means that the rest of the network of macro accounts cannot be used to support the replacing of the lost accounts and equipment. The last major banning session was called unholy rage. If you want the fan fest videos you will see that CCP admitted that unholy rage had a significant effect on the number of active accounts. So much so they were surprised how many accounts were involved and have committed extra resource to the hunt. There is also a number of dev logs related to unholy rage that are worth reading. I believe that have been busy inventing of the tech1 unholy rage blueprint and are in the process of building the tech2 version of unholy rage, this will be released on the eve universe soon (TM). I have seen groups of account get banned. If you add groups of them to your contacts list they will disappear on mass one day, when CCP drop the hammer on them. Shady thanks for that answer. i think that answers a few things for me. I'll look out for those blogs now and see what i can read. Hopefully i will kill a few that ive seen. whatsa sec loss for a bit of fun eh? :)
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.04 20:39:00 - [8] Originally by: shady trader Asteria, CCP don't ban single accounts for macro mining. That they do is gather intel till they have mapped out the whole network. Then they ban the lot, this means that the rest of the network of macro accounts cannot be used to support the replacing of the lost accounts and equipment. The last major banning session was called unholy rage. If you want the fan fest videos you will see that CCP admitted that unholy rage had a significant effect on the number of active accounts. So much so they were surprised how many accounts were involved and have committed extra resource to the hunt. There is also a number of dev logs related to unholy rage that are worth reading. I believe that have been busy inventing of the tech1 unholy rage blueprint and are in the process of building the tech2 version of unholy rage, this will be released on the eve universe soon (TM). I have seen groups of account get banned. If you add groups of them to your contacts list they will disappear on mass one day, when CCP drop the hammer on them. You really believe everything you read, don't you? You're saying they don't ban macros so they can ban the ingame characters(!) that receive ISK from macros that wouldn't exist if they just banned them. Makes sense, right.. oh wait.. As if the people who run macros actually live inside EVE Online in shape of an ingame character that disappears when it gets banned.. oh man.
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.09.05 00:40:00 - [9] Originally by: shady trader Asteria, CCP don't ban single accounts for macro mining. That they do is gather intel till they have mapped out the whole network. Then they ban the lot, this means that the rest of the network of macro accounts cannot be used to support the replacing of the lost accounts and equipment. The last major banning session was called unholy rage. If you want the fan fest videos you will see that CCP admitted that unholy rage had a significant effect on the number of active accounts. So much so they were surprised how many accounts were involved and have committed extra resource to the hunt. There is also a number of dev logs related to unholy rage that are worth reading. I believe that have been busy inventing of the tech1 unholy rage blueprint and are in the process of building the tech2 version of unholy rage, this will be released on the eve universe soon (TM). I have seen groups of account get banned. If you add groups of them to your contacts list they will disappear on mass one day, when CCP drop the hammer on them. This is partially true, macro accounts may not be banned if they are 'just' using a program to automate gameplay, the EULA says something to the effect that you are not permitted to use programs/tools/or modify the game to do things at an accelerated rate. Making your ship do the same things you'd do if you had no life, didn't need to sleep, eat, release bodily fluids, or any other things people do then does not violate that clause. IF you question it CCP will deliver a boiler plate section of the EULA and request you submit a petition if you suspect someone of violating it period. Additionally CCP's efforts in Unholy Rage and other targeted projects against 'macros' are for RMT, Real Money Transactions/transfers, where people go to a 3rd party and pay money to be given ISK (game money) by this third party. The 3rd party either uses macros to mine,mission,or hack actual players accounts to gain that isk they sell. That cuts into CCP's PLEX program, removing money from CCP/etc. Just because you see someone allegedly macro'ing doesn't mean they are selling the isk they make to anyone which in turn means they are even less likely, AFAIK, to get banned. They very well might get banned but CCP can't prove they are macro'ing instantly and aren't going to kick someone because of one or even a few 'reports' about them, they'd have to investigate first and then might just 'watch' them to see if they do go RMT eventually. -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.09.05 06:57:00 - [10] * Someone mined more then you. * You got upset they were stealing your asteroids. * You petition CCP hoping they'll ban this player so you can mine without competition. Glad you've got the magic macro detector that installs a camera in the pilots house. HTFU.

Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.05 07:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Asteria Aspire I over the course of a few days have noticed macro miners popping up in my local systems. Asteria If you want a good look at how how effectively CCP is dealing with macro use - have a look at the 'customer' forums of the various vendors. CCP has ways and means and does ban. Also, from what I could tell based on the feedback, use is not as prevalent as it might seem. Most of the focus seems to be on automation rather than maximising ie only a small hard core of 'professionals' are using hundreds of throw away accounts and blatantly flouting the EULA and being banned, and re-banned and banned again and re-banned again etc. Most 'script' users (it seems to me) are not mining 23 hrs a day or any thing so obvious and likely to see them pwn'd. The returns from such activity hardly make up for all the hassle tbh. Why get banned and hassled and worried about losing investments when you can just play EVE and ***** missions and other stuff that haemhorrage isk like crazy? Heck even GTC's are cheaper than the electricity you use running scripts 10+ hrs a day to make 60m isk! All that in mind its easy to see why CCP is only really concerned with focussing most, if not all of the limited resources (in man hrs) on the bigger issue of professional RMT and item farming etc. I don't think CCP stealth endorses or fails to enforce on these matters because it doesn't care. I think its just a case of how much time there is vs how serious an issue it is. As with everything! You can't catch em all.
Jenny Cameron Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:03:00 - [12] So this is a typical case of "if you can't beat them, join them", or am I being too cynical?
Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith * Someone mined more then you. * You got upset they were stealing your asteroids. * You petition CCP hoping they'll ban this player so you can mine without competition. Glad you've got the magic macro detector that installs a camera in the pilots house. HTFU. Perhaps you should know that someone who is logged in for 3 days without logging out and none stop mining is either on a large amount of drugs has insomnia or more than likely is a macro miner. I am not annoyedthey mine more than me, i happen to get on with 15 or so miners in my system, I would perhaps sugges tt hat you think about what you write rather than posting short IMPACT comments which are neither constructive or of benefit to anyone. STOP, THINK, POST
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Jenny Cameron So this is a typical case of "if you can't beat them, join them", or am I being too cynical? I don't see the point personally. I think everyone considers it however briefly at some time. But EVE doesn't lend itself to short term ism. Why risk it? Its a game right, so you pay to be entertained. Treating it like a job or trying to get round the mechanics using scripts kinda defeats the point no? Play the damn game! Especially given nothing is quick or easy to train for in EVE. Running dozens of accounts off dozens of bank accounts just to make what I can buy for $34 is way too much like work. There's so many ways to get rich and only so much you can spend it on depending on your skills it hardly makes sense. More of concern for me is the 'facilitator' scripts people are using to scout, probe, haul items from station to station etc. They **** me off more than guys farming asteroids in China tbh.
Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Jenny Cameron So this is a typical case of "if you can't beat them, join them", or am I being too cynical? I don't see the point personally. I think everyone considers it however briefly at some time. But EVE doesn't lend itself to short term ism. Why risk it? Its a game right, so you pay to be entertained. Treating it like a job or trying to get round the mechanics using scripts kinda defeats the point no? Play the damn game! Especially given nothing is quick or easy to train for in EVE. Running dozens of accounts off dozens of bank accounts just to make what I can buy for $34 is way too much like work. There's so many ways to get rich and only so much you can spend it on depending on your skills it hardly makes sense. More of concern for me is the 'facilitator' scripts people are using to scout, probe, haul items from station to station etc. They **** me off more than guys farming asteroids in China tbh. there is alot od scripts out there that people do use, its ashame that they do use them. I only ever purchase a game to enjoy playing it, not exploit it . I agree with your points 100%. Ironically after starting this post i have since started to popthe hulks that macro, i dont think thats wrong, and i do make every attempt to ensure they are macro'ers before i would ever engage. I certainly wouldnt like to sestroy what someone has worked for in eve.
Jenny Cameron Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:24:00 - [16] Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 05/09/2010 08:26:49 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Jenny Cameron So this is a typical case of "if you can't beat them, join them", or am I being too cynical? I don't see the point personally. Well say a miner makes 10 million an hour, that's 230 million a day, that is 7 billion a month. More than enough to buy all the ships you want and pay for your account with ISK for the rest of your life? While on the other hand there's people buying PLEX with IRL money, so basically by macro mining you can let others pay for your subscription. And it's all legitimate. Isn't it nice? /end sarcasm
Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenny Cameron Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Jenny Cameron So this is a typical case of "if you can't beat them, join them", or am I being too cynical? I don't see the point personally. Well say a miner makes 10 million an hour, that's 230 million a day, that is 7 billion a month. More than enough to buy all the ships you want and pay for your account with ISK for the rest of your life? While on the other hand there's people buying PLEX with IRL money, so basically by macro mining you can let others pay for your subscription. Isn't it nice? /end sarcasm Like the sarcasm, although your figures are based on a macro im guessing as 23 hours a day is not possible. Atm ost you would look at 8 hours a day if you were unemplyed perhaps. So realistically you could make 2 bil a month which would still pay for your account, which it would need too unless you have a great saet of benefits ;)
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Asteria Aspire Perhaps you should know that someone who is logged in for 3 days without logging out and none stop mining is either on a large amount of drugs has insomnia or more than likely is a macro miner. I'll bite! How do you know that they're logged in for three days without logging out? Are you suggesting that people who play for more hours than you do must obviously be macros? Quote: I would perhaps suggest that you think about what you write rather than posting short IMPACT comments which are neither constructive or of benefit to anyone. STOP, THINK, POST Quoting for emphasis. Hang out in the Assembly hall, make sure you lend your voice to all the posts suggesting a change to the mechanics of mining to make it more interesting for humans to do. Make sure you voice your opinion against the stupid "CAPTCHA" suggestions (enter a code in to get your mining lasers to cycle? LOL) In the meantime, recognise that mining is perfectly suited to people who are AFK (eg: at work, with EVE minimised in the background) and don't go assuming that because someone is logged on every time you are logged on, they must be a macro. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Jenny Cameron Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 05/09/2010 08:28:31 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Jenny Cameron So this is a typical case of "if you can't beat them, join them", or am I being too cynical? I don't see the point personally. Well say a miner makes 10 million an hour, that's 230 million a day, that is 7 billion a month. More than enough to buy all the ships you want and pay for your account with ISK for the rest of your life? While on the other hand there's people buying PLEX with IRL money, so basically by macro mining you can let others pay for your subscription. And it's all legitimate. Isn't it nice? Perhaps a nice subject for CCP's next promo video! /end sarcasm No its a fair point but I think the figures are way off. First of all unless you are very organized (ie its a real job for you) you won't be doing it outside high sec. That means no hauler alts. So you are in a Hulk, doing that. So are a lot of other people with or without scripts. Its going to be a challenge to find belts and farm them all before they are depleted by others. High sec mins are crappy and not worth much too which also reduces it. Mining in high sec is worth maybe 3.5-5m an hour. Tops! Some macro/scripts scout out roids, warp them and make their own bookmarks etc. But they regularly fall down due to other people. If you found a nice high sec island surrounded by low sec - I know of a couple - where there's almost no traffic and lots of empty belts to harvest maybe. But still its work. And with significant risk now its the done thing to gank afk miners. Sure I will concede you might make plenty. But its a lot of hassle with a lot of risk and long term the chances are you will get banned eventually. It is worth doing if all you want is isk and you have other accounts that aren't connected by user or banking etc. But even then there is a trail of transactions .. again you can get round it by laundering the isk over time. Again too much like work. Surely lucrative but not something that interests me. If it was real money I'd be keen! But pretend money in a pretend world I pay to play? No ta. If it floats your boat go for it. I'd rather just play the game for a few hrs then go do something else. Extract my $15 worth and leave it at that. I can comfortably make 400m a month for a plex doing t2 invention, running plexes, doing missions if I must. I still prefer to pay a sub and blow the isk I do make on pew pew. *shrug
Asteria Aspire	Posted - 2010.09.05 08:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Asteria Aspire Perhaps you should know that someone who is logged in for 3 days without logging out and none stop mining is either on a large amount of drugs has insomnia or more than likely is a macro miner. I'll bite! How do you know that they're logged in for three days without logging out? Are you suggesting that people who play for more hours than you do must obviously be macros? Quote: I would perhaps suggest that you think about what you write rather than posting short IMPACT comments which are neither constructive or of benefit to anyone. STOP, THINK, POST Quoting for emphasis. Hang out in the Assembly hall, make sure you lend your voice to all the posts suggesting a change to the mechanics of mining to make it more interesting for humans to do. Make sure you voice your opinion against the stupid "CAPTCHA" suggestions (enter a code in to get your mining lasers to cycle? LOL) In the meantime, recognise that mining is perfectly suited to people who are AFK (eg: at work, with EVE minimised in the background) and don't go assuming that because someone is logged on every time you are logged on, they must be a macro. Thanks for the post Mara, I'll look int o the discussions. PLease note though that i and my corp mates have been watching thiese two accounts between us with ironically 24 coverage in the system. And it has been proven they are none stop mining. I would never just throw accusations arouind that an account is a macro'er without first being certain and having conclusive facts that they were. Although i appreciate what your saying. I have first thought about my post and how i came to that conclusion before i made the post. Again i look forward to reading and getting involved into these discussions you mention :)

Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.09.05 09:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Asteria Aspire PLease note though that i and my corp mates have been watching these two accounts between us with ironically 24 coverage in the system. And it has been proven they are none stop mining. At least you have some basis for your claims then :) I'm in favour of the Chinese system of policing online games - you pay per hour rather than per month. Or at the very least, each player/account gets limited to some number of "humane play hours" each day/week. I think it's more than reasonable to allow an average of 12 hours a day, with an extra 12 hours a week for the extra die-hard players who can't live without their four hours of EVE on Friday night ;) -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Masikari	Posted - 2010.09.08 15:50:00 - [22] This has been an interesting read. I have often been curious about automated mining. I have a friend (now retired from EVE) who use to do it, and suggested it to me once. But I have always been afraid with the whole 'banning' and 'ganking' side of things, both of which I see fair if one is an ISK harvester who sells it for RL cash. Group mining can be a lot of fun - I've done it with a few tins of beer with voice-chat running on a Saturday night. But solo mining can be a little less interesting. I like the thought of being able to click on a program that will run my mining ship while I put my feet up on the desk and watch a film or do some work in the garage, without having to run back to empty my hold every 10 minutes. I don't see a great deal of harm in that. I wouldn't do it while I'm at work or asleep though. And it wouldn't be to directly generate ISK, as the mined ore would be used in production. I've got such a varied opinion on this subject and I don't know which way I lean. As for the ISK harvesters that take money away from CCP - gank away!
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.08 16:09:00 - [23] Macroers pay, too. Ignore them. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
Ratnix Foisen	Posted - 2010.09.08 16:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Asteria Aspire Like the sarcasm, although your figures are based on a macro im guessing as 23 hours a day is not possible. Atm ost you would look at 8 hours a day if you were unemplyed perhaps. So realistically you could make 2 bil a month which would still pay for your account, which it would need too unless you have a great saet of benefits ;) Seriously, you really think that at most an unemployed person would/could only play 8 hours a day? You do live on the planet earth? You don't live in a total media void? 8 hours a day? Maybe try 20 hours a day. Or for a more average no-lifer, try 12-16 hours a day. 10 years ago, back when I was playing muds, my summer shutdown was 2 weeks long. I would easily spend 14-18 hours a day playing. But that was only for about half the time we were shut down. There were players who either worked at home or were able to play games at work who would spend that amount of time daily playing. There are plenty of Hardcore MMO players who do this all the time. For that matter, there are FPS players who spend that amount of time playing. 8 hours a day for a hardcore player is just a joke.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2010.09.08 16:46:00 - [25] You seem like a damn bot, OP. I mean, you constantly watgch over these poor souls and don't even have a portrait. Draw your own conclusions --- ☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.08 17:05:00 - [26] This should be a question you talk with the GMs about. Please file a petition and ask the GMs. Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online



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