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Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.09 12:47:00 - [1] My idea is to put a well defended L POS into WH space, in a system with a native nullsec hole. Every day that hole would shift from one place to another in nullsec. I would provide all kinds of ships and modules to the residents of connected nullsec region alliance, making my endeavor look like a moving trading hub inside nullsec. Price ofc would be higher than in highsec for own profit and to buy fuel. Each day i would post in which system the trade hub would be found via WH. Would you use such service if it was provided to you? _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) _________________________
Zhi Ying Amarr Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.09.09 12:58:00 - [2] ....How do you not have the foresight to see people buying this intel from you then camping the WH with like 20 people?
Clearion Caldari SPORADIC MOVEMENT The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.09 13:09:00 - [3] How do you plan to sell stuff without your freighter getting ganked or setting people blue and shooting ships out of the shield without getting killed? --------- Remember remember, the fifth of November.
SGT Deathbringer Caldari Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.09.09 13:12:00 - [4] and just when i thought people playing eve couldnt get any more dum dum
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.09 13:16:00 - [5] Tbh, I wouldn't feel struck down by all the hatred in here if I were you. Its innovation like this that sometimes spark some really neat new things in EVE. And while the idea itself certainly is flawed in many ways..perhaps its just a matter of rethinking it .. As for whether it would be used or not..I dont think it would off hand, but that depends partly on whether or not you come up with a viable system that cant be abused as some people pointed out. Best of luck.
Oscar Fedora Caldari Loving Pirates	Posted - 2010.09.09 13:35:00 - [6] The WH can still collapse right? if so what you do when you got your trader out of the WH and it shifts to the otherside of eve... you going to fly all the way to that "new" spot _________________________________________
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.09 15:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Aelius on 09/09/2010 15:15:54 Edited by: Aelius on 09/09/2010 15:12:14 Some of you pointed out to some "potential" flaws in my idea. Be assured they have been thought upon. 1st. The goods will be delivered just on the frontier of POS shields by a ship strong enough to take a few shots before getting inside shields again. POS defences will be on fire upon negative standing only during the selling op and back to shoot on all after it. If such thing happens i will cease to sell or inform such alliance that i'm within their turf. 2nd. Goods will be paid in advance, trust is key here and i pretend to keep my end of the bargain. 3rd. If POS is attacked be assured that i will have plenty of defences (L faction POS), plenty of stront, some corp mates and some capitals. Since the actual WH mass keeps capitals to a max of 3 dreads/carriers i think i will manage, specially if u use one of my own dreads (before the wh route is anounced) to chop off the mass to less than 50% (still more than enough to make trade trips with regular indys, but avoiding a large scale attack). 4th. The matter of WH collapse and getting clients stuck inside it's their own responsibility. They are the ones that should monitor its state and decide how much mass they want to put through it. I will always advise costumers to get some type of scanning probes or be ready to suicide jump back to their own clone station. 5th. I will never be at the WH or near it to provide bms, i will only provide the system name and celestial body where it currently is. It's the customer job to find it via scanning (wont be too hard if you know where to look) Well, i know it isn't perfect but its close. _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) _________________________
Muul Udonii Minmatar THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.09 15:21:00 - [8] Edited by: Muul Udonii on 09/09/2010 15:21:45 I'd imagine with all the work someone has to do to get to you, the trust they have to place in you, and the fact that you made a typo and said you would 'pretend to keep my end of the bargain', that you won't get much interest. Which is a shame as the idea itself is a good one. If only you could put an outpost in a wormhole; then that would really give it a point.
Gallinae Gallente Cow Boys From HeII Galactic Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.09 15:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Muul Udonii Edited by: Muul Udonii on 09/09/2010 15:21:45 I'd imagine with all the work someone has to do to get to you, the trust they have to place in you, and the fact that you made a typo and said you would 'pretend to keep my end of the bargain', that you won't get much interest. Which is a shame as the idea itself is a good one. If only you could put an outpost in a wormhole; then that would really give it a point. This ^^ The idea is certainly a fun one, like a traveling bazaar...with all the seedy problems that go with it. If you could setup an outpost in a WH system it would work well. Since you can't, it wont.
Aralyn Cormallen Caldari Wraith.Wing Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.09.09 15:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Aelius 2nd. Goods will be paid in advance, trust is key here and i pretend to keep my end of the bargain. Gotta love a comedy typo. I assume you meant intend?
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.09 15:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Aralyn Cormallen Originally by: Aelius 2nd. Goods will be paid in advance, trust is key here and i pretend to keep my end of the bargain. Gotta love a comedy typo. I assume you meant intend? Fixed, and people could buy cheap stuff 1st and see how it goes. Usually trust comes with time... Chribba for example didn't earn his over night... Give it time _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) _________________________
J'aghatai Minmatar DRUCKWELLE Evolution The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.09 15:59:00 - [12] I like the idea. Well to be honest I dont think you will get far with usual stuff, as every capable Nullsec alliance should have dedicated logistic wings to provide stuff to every member. So why should i take the effort to come to your trade hub if i could just put up a contract and have my stuff max. 48 hours later. So maybe you should go for rare and / or very expensive stuff or faction ships. So if you come by i would never come to buy some t2 turrets. but maybe i would buy a vindicator with some nice faction webs or some officer mods for supers. Dont know if it would work though
Ivan Zhuk Gallente 1st Steps Academy Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.09.09 18:59:00 - [13] I think the trade idea wouldn't work because lets be honest what 0.0 entity isn't totally self sufficient? now could you organize raids of sort in some way? maybe force the WH to collapse to get a new exit in hostile territory. Of course the risk of someone just killing you is still there. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist
illy velo Gallente Rogen's Heroes Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.09 19:06:00 - [14] What might happen is you advertise your presence and you will either get swarmed by hostiles who want what you have or griefers that will simply run a bunch of ships through the exit wormhole and close it up. Nobody wants an entry into their sov space that they can't keep scouts in... It COULD work, but it would require a dedicated and smart corp.
Dhaul Minmatar Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.09 19:24:00 - [15] The idea sounds awesome but I really don't see it working out, much less being profitable at all for you.
Bagehi Caldari Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.09 19:58:00 - [16] How do you think you will be able to compete with 0.0 sec people jumping stuff into 0.0 hubs? Most prices in even the most lightly populated parts of 0.0 are only 10-30% higher than Jita. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Dzil Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.09 20:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Bagehi How do you think you will be able to compete with 0.0 sec people jumping stuff into 0.0 hubs? Most prices in even the most lightly populated parts of 0.0 are only 10-30% higher than Jita. Without the convenience and security of an actual market, I can't see people jumping into a WH to go shopping. You might succeed in convincing various alliances your services are worth NAPing you for, allowing you to JF some goods out to their nearby stations and market them. There's also the risk that, considering you have lots of stuff there, they could bring a sizeable fleet in, sack your POS, and roll out with all your stuff with a hearty Yarr. Another potential option would be to rent a back corner of space and get one of those infrastructure hubs that spawns lots of wormholes, then use this and a couple scouts to work out daily passages through the unknown to potential customers. But all that seems like WAY more work than just JFing down with a cyno, to be honest. Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :)
Blazde Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.09 22:24:00 - [18] It'll be like the lands at the top of The Magic Faraway Tree ^^ _ Northern Coalition - Best friends forever <3
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.09.09 23:00:00 - [19] You have obviously never lived in 0.0 or you would know most alliances already have hubs like this. Permanent hubs that aren't reliant on some guy in a wormhole
Teschan Amarr Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.09.10 00:41:00 - [20] sounds like a full time job. If you think you can make money from it then go for it.
Czeris Caldari Battlestars Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.09.10 07:28:00 - [21] Aside from the obvious points already made (if you bring a big shiny to null with loots in it, someone will find a way to gank it), I have to disagree with one thing, and that's the market hub argument. Most of the nullsec market hubs are severely lacking in many things, and hugely overpriced in many other things. If you could find a way to do it securely and efficiently, there would be many items you could make a profit on.
Pinky Denmark Caldari The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.09.10 11:58:00 - [22] Good luck surviving if you think POS guns will save you ^^ - I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew...
Stygian Knight Minmatar Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.09.10 12:11:00 - [23] Edited by: Stygian Knight on 10/09/2010 12:11:00 small tip. Do a little research and find out which 0.0 region has most active (pvpers, carebears, active wars - whatever your aimed group is) and then find a NPC station in that region and make a hub out of it.
Pasadenasman Gallente Born In Jungle	Posted - 2010.09.10 14:21:00 - [24] I had this idea several months ago and that's the reason why i have to left that idea : A)If you do this, then you have a "safe way" to bring stuff IN. You have 2 otpions : 1) have an native empire wh 2) have a large mass wh to allow several jf( let's say 5 times) to enter it. 1) why ppl don't just sit in your WH and search for that native empire wh to make their own way to safe stuff - business too? 2) If you don't have a native empire wh, then you have to bring your stuff in by JF landing on the wh entry, and then... why ppl just gank you there ? :-) (especially if you give the location of your wh) B) Why pll will not just entering your wh and anchor a Large faction POS too ? with only large guns to not give you the opportunity to take down their pos with your cap? Why they want do that? maybe not for ganking you... but your client and give you some ****s :-) C) To make it real, this project will concern a lot of ppl (more risk) with a loot of money (why they will start this activity?), and all of that ppl will spend their time to take risks and loose money to provide stuff in 0.0. This is the main issue... in this game this is exactly the opposite. In fact they can make the same in empire, with less work, less risks and not inevitably with less benefits... D) You have to make a high volume of transaction to earn your life, whit no market tool, you will have to spend a huge amount of time in transaction. So if you earn quite enought transaction, you have to be 2-3 "traders"... this lead to decrease your self benefits. Why high volume of transaction ? Because if a pilot want a single item i will buy it by itself especially if you raise your price with 10-20%... imagine in a 2B item... and the customer still have the risk to be ganked in your WH. Ok so this was for the bad point. Well... i will not take this way of play eve online, so i will give you my reflexion about this project and the limits i already got, hope you can have much imagination than myself to make this project For real. - Wh works by constellation, majority of the time, that involve you will NOT TRAVEL EVERYWHERE in 0.0. You have to well choose you effect area. Or find a wh that directly lead on an other constellation which covert an other part of 0.0. So one of wh in yours leads directly to a system which is connected to the south of new eden for exemple, while your main w-space is connected to the north. This research will take a lot of time/ppl and ppl who get these wh will not them to you. Especially for this cause. - I Suggest you to find 2-3 others corps to set up with you in this WH, together you can hire a mercenary corp to completly secure your WH. Alone, hire such a service will drop your benefits. -To secure you have to anchore 4-6 large bubble in every wh enter and place guards to check entries. Like concord/police in empire. Prefer long range /high alpha bs to fastly pop targets and bomber to give intel in and out and give dps on larger targets. - Transaction can be done in safe spot. Get a transport ship, put stuff in cargo, go in safe and drop the stuff, take a bookmark of the can and get back your force field. Get a fast T1 freg and drop the BM in front of your Force field. Ask your customer to pick it safetly. they have to pay you and trust you (difficult part but not impossible). You will not get trouble by this way. -Time : This will take your much time, so to be effective you have to be at least 2 traders to make this rolling perfectly. - dedicate your activity : don't sell all the stuff you can, pick the right item and ask your neighbors to do the same, together get a variety of activity and customer will ask at different "corp" for differents items. Conclusion; all of this will take plenty of time, you play with hundred of billions at day in a risky area. i may think you will not earn a lot of isk for the reward of the work. I wish you good luck and give me a shoot IG. Sorry for bad english. Pasa o7
Pasadenasman Gallente Born In Jungle	Posted - 2010.09.10 14:33:00 - [25] i forgot an important point. I suggest you to build a cap fleet IN this w-space, or get into as many you can. Some ppl will drop a tower during the night, and wait for days while entering a cap by day. finally by ten days you will have a L POs with a cap fleet surrounder yours in YOUR w-space... Keep in mind that a L POS with a cap fleet is +- 20-25B. So if you have more isk at one time in your tower, DON'T GO TO SLEEP !!! xD 2nd i suggest you to take a diplomatic relationship with a pvp corp, they will enjoy your idea and let them to play out of your WH against the Reds/neutrals of your customer. This will give you one more military power in case of, and an intern policy to check the wh constantly. Secure is the big part of the deal. You have to balance security - benefits - population. o7
BiggerDangDude Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.09.11 01:30:00 - [26] This sounds like a pretty good idea. Send me 500 million ISK and I'll start helping you buy up the modules.
Tandin Gallente The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.11 03:10:00 - [27] Hmm.. put a few NPC stations in random wormhole systems.. then use them as trade hubs.. like a Jita 4-4 with randomized gates. That would be as amusing as it is frustrating.
Emsee Minmatar Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.09.11 03:27:00 - [28] Edited by: Emsee on 11/09/2010 03:28:06 This is a very interesting idea. But to be honest, I personally wouldn't be interested. Most alliances have their own logistics chains that are a lot more secure.
Chris Bailey Amarr Best Served Cold.	Posted - 2010.09.11 08:03:00 - [29] Ill help in my badger
Lynn Deniera Caldari The Foreign Legion Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.09.11 11:19:00 - [30] Quote: trust is key here It won't work

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