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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Shadow
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:11:00 -
[1]
With your help, CCP was able to put its new hardware and software solutions to the test in Jita, on September 5, 2010. The latest dev blog from CCP Explorer and CCP Yokai explains what was learned from hitting this milestone. You can read about it here.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:18:00 -
[2]
\o/
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:22:00 -
[3]
and also, hardware pron \o/
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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LordSwift
Caldari The Plexus Syndicate The Order of New Eden
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:22:00 -
[4]
nice to see the improvements working. cant wait to see improvements in fleet fights for the big alliances. but alas i think it will be a long quest. You give players more room. they will only cram more in. good work ccp
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:23:00 -
[5]
Quote: Hyper Threading disabled
Why is hyper threading so fail? ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote: Hyper Threading disabled
Why is hyper threading so fail?
Because it simulates a multiple core CPU and Eve is single threaded. Sheesh, where have you been ?
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:49:00 -
[7]
Sweet
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Dusty Meg
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dusty Meg on 10/09/2010 16:50:45 Its always good to get posts about hardware :) And what a milestone 200+ in jita is.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:54:00 -
[9]
I was there for this. It was very cool and playable, even out in space. Grid load times at the peak were < 45 seconds for me. Seriously awesome job - I remember those deep dark days when Jita was simply unusable with only a fraction of the people there.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:13:00 -
[10]
Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.
I dare say EVE's load issues would be solved the moment you guys can load balance across cores, and across servers. Until that happens, I think you'll be making improvements, but never conclusively solving the problem.
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:15:00 -
[11]
Our spahm will block out the sun.
[SoE:X]
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Amy Garzan
Gallente The Warp Rats Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:42:00 -
[12]
Pretty
POST MAH PICTURES!!! -------------------------------------------------- 101010 The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything |
Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:54:00 -
[13]
Do you guys intend to start replacing existing blades with these if this proves to have a similar effect on fleet fights that it has in Jita?
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.
I dare say EVE's load issues would be solved the moment you guys can load balance across cores, and across servers. Until that happens, I think you'll be making improvements, but never conclusively solving the problem.
This... My guess is their challenge in dynamic load balancing is probably due to legacy code more than anything else. CCP started work on EVE back in 2000, when most servers were single core and multicore PC's were unthinkable. Simply put, the server (and client) code needs to be rewritten or extended to take advantage of parallel processing, using a single core is wasting CPU resources and is inefficient.
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Gil Danastre
Amarr 5TH Combat Training Squadron
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:24:00 -
[15]
You guys have probably already thought of this, but have you considered developing a virtual hardware layer akin to how virtual machines work? For EVE, you could make a node think it's running single core, but the virtual layer below it managing the hardware is running clustered hardware with however much you want in horsepower and could reallocate the resources as needed, keeping the node "in the dark" and never think anything was different from before.
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Aranial
Gallente Empyrean Warriors Lux Caelestia
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:29:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aranial on 10/09/2010 18:32:44 Wahey to more Dev blogs *\o/*
oh and dribble over server hardware
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.
I dare say EVE's load issues would be solved the moment you guys can load balance across cores, and across servers. Until that happens, I think you'll be making improvements, but never conclusively solving the problem.
This... My guess is their challenge in dynamic load balancing is probably due to legacy code more than anything else. CCP started work on EVE back in 2000, when most servers were single core and multicore PC's were unthinkable. Simply put, the server (and client) code needs to be rewritten or extended to take advantage of parallel processing, using a single core is wasting CPU resources and is inefficient.
While this is very true (there will be some great improvements from that), it's probably not as true as you think it is.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Lan Staz
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gil Danastre You guys have probably already thought of this, but have you considered developing a virtual hardware layer akin to how virtual machines work? For EVE, you could make a node think it's running single core, but the virtual layer below it managing the hardware is running clustered hardware with however much you want in horsepower and could reallocate the resources as needed, keeping the node "in the dark" and never think anything was different from before.
Where can I get hold of the virtualisation software that does this? It sounds too good to be true.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.
Well ... I wouldn't call an improvement of 42% (2000+ compared to 1400) a wasted development. |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.09.10 19:55:00 -
[20]
Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?
I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
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Stick Cult
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Posted - 2010.09.10 19:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Stick Cult on 10/09/2010 19:56:02 EXCUSE ME YOKAI AND EXPLORER!!
Where are my pictures of you guys and the cluster? We got blade ****, but I want to see the rest!
edit: Size 6 is a bit big, isn't it...
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.09.10 20:21:00 -
[22]
Nice to see yet another blog about what is going on under the hood. I remember when going to Jita on a Sunday was considered nuts. These days, I jump or log in alts there most Sundays and it's never a problem.
Thanks for working with CSM in trying to get adequate participation for the Jita load testing.
Life In Low Sec |
Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
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Posted - 2010.09.10 20:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote: Hyper Threading disabled
Why is hyper threading so fail?
Because it simulates a multiple core CPU and Eve is single threaded. Sheesh, where have you been ?
It still seems rather fail to me... EVE itself might be single-threaded, but I doubt the underlying OS is too. So... try to throw every background process possible off of the core EVE is using and you end up with a win scenario.
Although the clear solution (if not already the case) is to make even a single node multithreaded.
Perhaps someone from Intel can explain the reasoning on leaving one of their champion technologies turned off? ---
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DmitryEKT
Tyrell Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.10 20:40:00 -
[24]
ok, so jita's over 2000, but the real question is, when will jita be over 9000? --- EVE Online: underwater spaceships simulator |
Grez
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.10 21:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Internet Knight
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote: Hyper Threading disabled
Why is hyper threading so fail?
Because it simulates a multiple core CPU and Eve is single threaded. Sheesh, where have you been ?
It still seems rather fail to me... EVE itself might be single-threaded, but I doubt the underlying OS is too. So... try to throw every background process possible off of the core EVE is using and you end up with a win scenario.
Although the clear solution (if not already the case) is to make even a single node multithreaded.
Perhaps someone from Intel can explain the reasoning on leaving one of their champion technologies turned off?
HyperThreading just allows the core to work on another thread if one has stalled. It doesn't speed anything up, and in-fact carries a lot of overhead if you're not using a VERY threaded application. ---
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.09.10 21:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Marlenus Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?
I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam.
Jita is player-chosen as the mega-mall. You might want to visit the other hubs?
The top regional market hubs are
- Amarr VIII (Oris)
- Jita IV - Moon 4
- Dodixie IX - Moon 20
- Rens VI - Moon 8
and the secondary regional market hubs are
- Tash-Murkon Prime II - Moon 1
- Hirtamon VII - Moon 5
- Oursulaert III
- Hek VIII - Moon 12
based on transaction totals.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Eli Strange
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.09.10 21:30:00 -
[27]
I love this company, and this is the main reason why I chose to stay on and play EVE Online. I was a little put off with learning curve, and have to wait sooo long to train for this game. However, the company is awesome and very player centered. Thank you. If the present world go astray, the cause is in you, in you it is to be sought. Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy |
Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.10 21:41:00 -
[28]
Dear God, that's a small blade (I'm used to the 8000 series Sun blades, with four Quad-core AMDs - this was before Intel had an answer to HyperTransport btw).
Anyway, good to see that progress can still be made in a single-thread environment.
Since it was mentioned that you're working with IBM, are they also helping in a code review (either Eve itself, or Stackless)? I know they did similar work with both Linux and OpenSim, so inquiring about Stackless would probably whet their appetites.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.11 00:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Marlenus Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?
I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam.
Jita is player-chosen as the mega-mall. You might want to visit the other hubs?
The top regional market hubs are
- Amarr VIII (Oris)
- Jita IV - Moon 4
- Dodixie IX - Moon 20
- Rens VI - Moon 8
and the secondary regional market hubs are
- Tash-Murkon Prime II - Moon 1
- Hirtamon VII - Moon 5
- Oursulaert III
- Hek VIII - Moon 12
based on transaction totals.
Hek 4tw ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.09.11 08:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Typhado3 Hek 4tw
Hek drives me up a wall because some numbnuts love putting their stuff up in the opposite station. EPIC FAIL GUYS, EPIC FAIL!
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Archestratidas
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:50:00 -
[31]
You could continue spending god knows how many resources trying to stay ahead of the player tidal wave in Jita. You could.
Or you could simply remove the need for 2000 people to be in the same system at the same time for market purposes.
Path of most resistance much?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.09.11 10:00:00 -
[32]
The memory goes slowly but steadily up to 4800 MB as the playercount rises to 2000 and then it maxs out there.
When the playercount drops again down to 900 or so the memory usage still stays at the max.
Any idea why?
In any case, great archievement, great blo[g|b], great improvements! |
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CCP Yokai
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Posted - 2010.09.11 11:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Stick Cult Edited by: Stick Cult on 10/09/2010 19:56:02 EXCUSE ME YOKAI AND EXPLORER!!
Where are my pictures of you guys and the cluster? We got blade ****, but I want to see the rest!
edit: Size 6 is a bit big, isn't it...
Got the server in there... a cluster photo shoot is in the plans but nothing new form the last series yet.
The pic of Explorer and I may not ever surface :)
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CCP Yokai
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Posted - 2010.09.11 11:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mynxee Nice to see yet another blog about what is going on under the hood. I remember when going to Jita on a Sunday was considered nuts. These days, I jump or log in alts there most Sundays and it's never a problem.
Thanks for working with CSM in trying to get adequate participation for the Jita load testing.
Thank you CSM! We really appreciate everyone for thier help in making the test possible and pretty darn fun too! Did you see that Concord blob!!!
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2010.09.11 12:52:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gil Danastre You guys have probably already thought of this, but have you considered developing a virtual hardware layer akin to how virtual machines work? For EVE, you could make a node think it's running single core, but the virtual layer below it managing the hardware is running clustered hardware with however much you want in horsepower and could reallocate the resources as needed, keeping the node "in the dark" and never think anything was different from before.
Unfortunately the underlying architecture required to run a single threaded process across multiple processing cores is a logistical nightmare that can make even the most hardened programmers whimper in fear. It also won't make it run any faster than the fastest processing core.
See Brooks law, ie, "Nine women can't make a baby in one month". It refers to manpower but, because currently Eve's core is pretty much single threaded, it works in this case. You can't make it go faster by adding more processors, you can only make it faster by adding faster processors. This is a problem because, simply put, processors haven't really gotten much faster in the last 4 or 5 years, they have only really gained multiple cores.
The long term goal, I hope, is to re-factor Eve's core architecture so that it can make use of multiple cores. Not a task for the faint of heart as it means pretty much rebuilding things from the ground up, which includes factoring in all the extra things added through various game expansions and keeping ahead of work currently in development.
The work for this has started, in a manner, as suggested in this dev blog where they are moving some non-essential functions off to their own nodes freeing some resources.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.09.11 17:24:00 -
[36]
Nice blade. Giggity, giggity!
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.09.11 20:11:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Hirtamon
lol where the hell is Hirtamon
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Severin Emmeram
Minmatar Re-Tek
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Posted - 2010.09.12 01:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: RentableMuffin
Originally by: CCP Explorer Hirtamon
lol where the hell is Hirtamon
Here
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.12 04:46:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Yokai
Originally by: Stick Cult
EXCUSE ME YOKAI AND EXPLORER!!
Where are my pictures of you guys and the cluster? We got blade ****, but I want to see the rest!
edit: Size 6 is a bit big, isn't it...
Got the server in there... a cluster photo shoot is in the plans but nothing new from the last series I put up yet.
The pic of Explorer and I may not ever surface :)
Come on, photoshop it.. you know you can do it
Nice blog and pics btw - thx a lot!
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Pantheon Lea
Farmer Boyz
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Posted - 2010.09.12 22:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kolatha ...processors haven't really gotten much faster in the last 4 or 5 years, they have only really gained multiple cores.
If you are talking about those Intel CPU's we all use in our servers, you could not be more wrong.
Pantheon Lea
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.09.13 01:44:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Marlenus Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?
I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam.
Jita is player-chosen as the mega-mall. You might want to visit the other hubs?
The top regional market hubs are
- Amarr VIII (Oris)
- Jita IV - Moon 4
- Dodixie IX - Moon 20
- Rens VI - Moon 8
and the secondary regional market hubs are
- Tash-Murkon Prime II - Moon 1
- Hirtamon VII - Moon 5
- Oursulaert III
- Hek VIII - Moon 12
based on transaction totals.
AKA, the scumpit is working as the people who made it intend it to work.
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2010.09.13 07:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pantheon Lea
Originally by: Kolatha ...processors haven't really gotten much faster in the last 4 or 5 years, they have only really gained multiple cores.
If you are talking about those Intel CPU's we all use in our servers, you could not be more wrong.
FTA: "CCP has been working closely with the IBM engineering team to capture the details that get EVE vertical performance increases in a very horizontal CPU market."
"Very horizonatl CPU market" meaning that processors are getting more cores rather than faster speeds.
XEON 5000 series server processors.
Top of the range Intel server processors run at about 3.3GHz, maxing out at about 3.7 with turbo, with 6 cores. A top end server processor about 4 years back would run about the same clock with similar benchmarks on a single threaded operation, only it would be single core package.
New processor cores are only marginally faster than what you would find in a 4 year old core, the real speed improvements servers are seeing comes from off-core technologies, like faster bus speeds, faster MB chipsets, SSDs, low latency memory, server code optimisations for multi threading etc etc. Then there are other nice features like multi-core and Hyperthreading which allows a single chip package to do the work previously split among multiple chip packages.
A server today will greatly outperform a server from 4 years ago due to the ability to split tasks across multiple processing cores and shovel the data between these cores and storage with a faster bus and memory. But the processing speeds of each core independently? some, but not much improvement there. Otherwise you wouldn't have phrases like "horizontal CPU market" and we would be seeing consumer processors in the 6 to 8 GHz range.
CCP are investing nicely in these optimised servers. But for a single threaded operation, like an Eve node as I understand it, the core processor speed is still one of, if not the most important limiting factor. Hence the need for "vertical performance increases".
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.09.13 09:22:00 -
[43]
tl;dr:
Originally by: "CCP Yokai" Beginning next week the test blade used in Jita will start taking on fleet fights
Thanks, CCP. We'll let you know when it breaks. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
Yeay Fritg
Caldari Confrerie de Kaedri Cluster Of Rebirth
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:56:00 -
[44]
Jita.
24 hours report...
306 ships kills...
96 pods kills...
Let's go PvP from everywhere :-)
The server are only on in one place in the universe for fleet fight...it's in Jita. Sure CCP understand ...where his clients are.
Yeay
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Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.13 15:33:00 -
[45]
Clearly, the hexagonal grid holes are responsible for most of the improved performance.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.14 11:49:00 -
[46]
gogo CCP congratulations so whats next for the focus on the fight against lag.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.15 04:39:00 -
[47]
Could someone please take a hand up and fix blog announces to bearable size? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
lost soel
Caldari Imperial Tau Syndicate Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.09.24 17:33:00 -
[48]
Geee Wiss, why don't CCP says use the other market hubs in eve to reduce the traffic load in jita. I myself uses other hubs for many reasons. CCP you are putting too many eggs in 1 basket. [url=http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=lost%20soel][/ |
Max Hardcase
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.09.29 06:26:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 29/09/2010 06:27:40 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3949/oczs-fastest-ssd-the-ibis-and-hsdl-interface-reviewed/1
More hardware p0rn. And look at the io performance.
Page 1 is called the Need for Speed...thought that funny
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.29 08:50:00 -
[50]
moar hardware always good
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