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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.12 23:42:00 -
[1]
Ladies and Gentlemen... welcome!
Please, take off your shoes, your jacket, your pants: make yourself comfortable. This is the People's Perpetuity, and is as much your home as it is mine. For while I may hold all the isk, do all the trading, oversee the markets, post on the forums, transfer the stocks, payout the dividends, deal with the trolls, hold all... okay, so it IS mostly mine, but if China can do it so can I.
Since I have a sneaking suspicion no one reads wall-of-text IPO's anyway, I will deliver this one in stark journalistic fashion... all the while maintaining my usual air of absolute professionalism.
THE WHO:
- Cheque Please, official poet laureate of the MD forum.
THE WHAT:
A bond similar to a stock. Buyback date is not set in stone. Any interim trading of shares will be conducted in this thread. Market sets future price.
- Initial share value: 1 mil per
- Initial interest rate: 10% (100k per)
Note: I plan to release more shares in the future (expansion), but with more isk, there is always the danger of me hitting a glass ceiling profit-wise. As such, I may need to adjust the interest rate to maintain profitability.
If/when I smack my head into a concrete ceiling and I'm bleeding red, there is no point for me to continue. I will then buyback all shares for a fair price, thus terminating the bond.
I do not expect this to happen for some time. Advance warning of bond termination will be given at least 1 month prior (barring any emergencies).
THE WHERE:
THE WHEN:
- Interest paid out once a month, starting from a launch date TBA.
THE HOW:
- Ho ho, nice try. A market magician never reveals his secret.
THE HAIKU:
Old bond Titan frog jumps Splash! The sound of tears
Any questions/reservations please post below.
Previous bonds: Bond #1 Bond #2 HLM (LLSE)
Thanks --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.12 23:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Cheque Please on 12/09/2010 23:43:15
reserved for reservations
No audit --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Lo'ken
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.09.12 23:52:00 -
[3]
I'd like to reserve 1000shares (1bil total) please.
Cheers,
Lo'ken
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.09.13 00:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cheque Please Initial interest rate: 10% (100k per)
Note: I plan to release more shares in the future (expansion), but with more isk, there is always the danger of me hitting a glass ceiling profit-wise. As such, I may need to adjust the interest rate to maintain profitability.
Will people be offered the option to sell back their bonds at face value rather than being forced into lower rates of return?
In theory, and I'm not suggesting that you actually plan to do this, under the terms as set out, you might unilaterally lower the rate of return from 10%... to 5%... to 1%... to 0%... and, why not, to -1%... to -5% (i.e., if people don't pay you 5% each month, you claim that they have forfeited their principal).
Originally by: Cheque Please If/when I smack my head into a concrete ceiling and I'm bleeding red, there is no point for me to continue. I will then buyback all shares for a fair price, thus terminating the bond.
How do you intend to determine a number for "a fair price"? á á
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Lashka Gar
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Posted - 2010.09.13 01:03:00 -
[5]
Where are the reservations from previous investors?
At any rate I wasn't expecting your next IPO so soon and blew a bunch of isk on toys today so I'm out. Good luck.
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Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.09.13 01:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cheque Please Edited by: Cheque Please on 12/09/2010 23:43:15
No audit
Wow, deja vu.
It's like Bad Bobby, all over again.
That one didn't end so well for investors, did it? Didn't he like ... take all (800bill+) the money or something?
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Honies
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Posted - 2010.09.13 01:20:00 -
[7]
I hearby reserve 5000 shares. Could you put me down for 100 free shares as I am an early investor as well?
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.13 01:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Thoraemond
In theory, and I'm not suggesting that you actually plan to do this, under the terms as set out, you might unilaterally lower the rate of return from 10%... to 5%... to 1%... to 0%... and, why not, to -1%... to -5% (i.e., if people don't pay you 5% each month, you claim that they have forfeited their principal).
If I intended to pull something like that off (would anyone really buy that they should pay me money to get their principal back, lol?), it seems much simpler to just disappear with the money.
Originally by: Lashka Gar Where are the reservations from previous investors?
If they confirm here their interest in the bond, I will add them. As a general thing, though, I'm lucky enough to get people to respond to my evemails let alone give me a heads up on their intentions.
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Wow, deja vu.
It's like Bad Bobby, all over again.
That one didn't end so well for investors, did it? Didn't he like ... take all (800bill+) the money or something?
Okay, the difference between me and Bad Bobby is 840b. Not to mention the fact that he had a suspicious character name and was a member of a questionable corporation...
...hmm, wait a second...
You might be on to something. Confirming that I am indeed a Bad Bobby alt.
Originally by: Honies I hearby reserve 5000 shares. Could you put me down for 100 free shares as I am an early investor as well?
Sorry, no free shares. And in the interest of fair play (and people actually following through with the isk) I'm going to cap individual reservations at 2.5b.
--- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.09.13 02:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cheque Please
Originally by: Thoraemond In theory, and I'm not suggesting that you actually plan to do this, under the terms as set out, you might unilaterally lower the rate of return from 10%... to 5%... to 1%... to 0%... and, why not, to -1%... to -5% (i.e., if people don't pay you 5% each month, you claim that they have forfeited their principal).
If I intended to pull something like that off (would anyone really buy that they should pay me money to get their principal back, lol?), it seems much simpler to just disappear with the money.
It was just a passing thought. Do you have any response on my questions, though? á á
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers
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Posted - 2010.09.13 02:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cheque Please Please, take off your shoes, your jacket, your pants: make yourself comfortable.
I never wear pants while playing EVE.
I'll take 100 mill's worth please.
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.13 02:39:00 -
[11]
Don't worry, I'm not trying to ignore your questions. Rather I'm thinking about them.
If I were to offer a buyback it would be most likely be the price I paid for the shares (1mil). It's not a bad suggestion to offer a buyback when I lower the interest rate, but there's 2 problems that I foresee:
1) I'd have to mass liquidate if everyone went to cash in at once, most likely ruining my profit. 2) I'd have to peddle shares throughout the bond's length, and after I resell them, I would have to calculate when I pay the interest. If it takes me a week to resell someone's shares I bought back, do I pay full interest for only having the money 3 weeks of the month? What if it takes me two weeks to resell the shares?
And if I were to pay the month after and skip 1 interest date, that's not really fair for the purchaser.
Which is why I'd prefer to leave buying/selling to the shareholders and only step in to offer expansions on planned dates. If the market sets the price, it's out of my hands and I don't have to worry about it. I suppose it would suck if someone buys 1000 shares for 1.5 mil or something and I cancel the month after, but hey... get in and out fast, right?
Hope that makes sense.
--- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.09.13 03:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cheque Please [T]here's 2 problems that I foresee:
1) I'd have to mass liquidate if everyone went to cash in at once, most likely ruining my profit.
2) I'd have to peddle shares throughout the bond's length, and after I resell them, I would have to calculate when I pay the interest. If it takes me a week to resell someone's shares I bought back, do I pay full interest for only having the money 3 weeks of the month? What if it takes me two weeks to resell the shares?
And if I were to pay the month after and skip 1 interest date, that's not really fair for the purchaser.
Which is why I'd prefer to leave buying/selling to the shareholders and only step in to offer expansions on planned dates. If the market sets the price, it's out of my hands and I don't have to worry about it. I suppose it would suck if someone buys 1000 shares for 1.5 mil or something and I cancel the month after, but hey... get in and out fast, right?
Thank you.
While these options make sense for you, they don't sound all that great for your investors. Presumably the market price for each bond would take a hit when you announce that you'll be lowering the interest rate, no? Sounds like a bad time to sell.
How about:- issuing any expansion amounts at lower interest rates (so that your overall cost of borrowing declines, without reducing the payments regime to any existing investors), or
- using a third party to secure funds to refinance (buying out old bonds and then issuing a new set; the third party is so that you don't have all the funds from the original issue + the refinance all at once, which is a protection for your investors)?
Also, why no audit? Presumably an update from the previous one (now more than two months ago) would show significant growth and success. á á
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.13 03:24:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/09/2010 03:24:48
Originally by: Thoraemond
While these options make sense for you, they don't sound all that great for your investors. Presumably the market price for each bond would take a hit when you announce that you'll be lowering the interest rate, no? Sounds like a bad time to sell.
How about:- issuing any expansion amounts at lower interest rates (so that your overall cost of borrowing declines, without reducing the payments regime to any existing investors), or
- using a third party to secure funds to refinance (buying out old bonds and then issuing a new set; the third party is so that you don't have all the funds from the original issue + the refinance all at once, which is a protection for your investors)?
I like the idea of #1, but what will I do if someone from the 10% bracket sells their shares when I'm currently paying out 6%. Do I pay any new purchasers the 10% rate or downgrade the new people to 6%? Genuinely curious as to your answer. It sounds like it could get confusing fast.
You have to understand that my primary objective is to keep things simple for myself. I'd rather run 1 big bond with 1 monthly interest payment than deal with 4 smaller bonds (which is why I recently paid them all off). Until someone volunteers to be my accountant, if there are two roads diverged in a wood, I'm taking the 6 lane super highway.
Quote:
Also, why no audit? Presumably an update from the previous one (now more than two months ago) would show significant growth and success.
Because it took me 1 month to get that audit, and while VV did a very good job, I'm not finding an auditor again.
1 hazing per person, thanks --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Holli Nalt
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Posted - 2010.09.13 04:19:00 -
[14]
I'll take 250 shares (250m).
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Ramingo
Caldari Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.13 04:23:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote:
Also, why no audit? Presumably an update from the previous one (now more than two months ago) would show significant growth and success.
Because it took me 1 month to get that audit, and while VV did a very good job, I'm not finding an auditor again.
1 hazing per person, thanks
I'm available to audit your bond. Especially given that you went from a discontinued IPO, to a 1.5 bill bond, to a 3 bill bond and now suddenly jump to 10 bill without wanting it to be audited, I suggest you highly reconsider.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.09.13 04:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cheque Please
Originally by: Thoraemond How about:- issuing any expansion amounts at lower interest rates (so that your overall cost of borrowing declines, without reducing the payments regime to any existing investors), or
- using a third party to secure funds to refinance (buying out old bonds and then issuing a new set; the third party is so that you don't have all the funds from the original issue + the refinance all at once, which is a protection for your investors)?
I like the idea of #1, but what will I do if someone from the 10% bracket sells their shares when I'm currently paying out 6%. Do I pay any new purchasers the 10% rate or downgrade the new people to 6%? Genuinely curious as to your answer. It sounds like it could get confusing fast.
So long as you specify which way it works up front, it's not very complicated. You can keep track of all this with a very basic list:
Investor Principal Rate
NameOne 500 MISK 10% NameTwo 1500 MISK 10% NameThree 1000 MISK 10% Then you set a new rate of 6%, issue 1000 MISK more, and NameTwo sells to NameFive:
Investor Principal Rate
NameOne 500 MISK 10% NameFive 1500 MISK 10% (or 6%, depending on what policy you choose) NameThree 1000 MISK 10% NameFour 1000 MISK 6% (new issue) Hardly rocket science.
Originally by: Cheque Please
Originally by: Thoraemond Also, why no audit? Presumably an update from the previous one (now more than two months ago) would show significant growth and success.
Because it took me 1 month to get that audit, and while VV did a very good job, I'm not finding an auditor again. [...] 1 hazing per person, thanks.
An audit might feel like a hazing, but that's not what it should be. It should be an independent verification of some information about the audited party... something that can be done regardless of whether it's been done before, regardless of whether the subject has been around for a while, and regardless of whether the subject feels like he or she has passed an initiation and joined a club.
I can appreciate the issue with the time it takes. Did you check in with Vaerah Vahrokha about what timeline would be required for an update audit, or did you decide against an audit without looking into it? á á
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Momus Maximus
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Posted - 2010.09.13 05:42:00 -
[17]
I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to step in here and be like "Uh, this is a scam," or whether that's already considered so self-evident by MD that it doesn't warrant saying.
In any case ... scam.
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FilterRelease
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Posted - 2010.09.13 06:07:00 -
[18]
50 shares (50 million isk) I was a first investor.
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Ortacu
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Posted - 2010.09.13 07:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ortacu on 13/09/2010 07:07:25
Originally by: Cheque Please
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Wow, deja vu.
It's like Bad Bobby, all over again.
That one didn't end so well for investors, did it? Didn't he like ... take all (800bill+) the money or something?
Okay, the difference between me and Bad Bobby is 840b. Not to mention the fact that he had a suspicious character name and was a member of a questionable corporation...
...hmm, wait a second...
You might be on to something. Confirming that I am indeed a Bad Bobby alt.
Yeah, well, that would be the difference. The similarity would be he had 2 or 3 previous small IPOs which went fairly well, built "prestige" capital and jumped to a 200B one. The argument with his name and corp is terrible. No one EVER took that into account and never will. Get a grip. That's just smokescreen. Same as "MD poet" crap. BB was also seen as an MD "elite" or wannabe at least and many said "I'd trust all my money to BB in a blink"...and look where that ended up.
What's the "fear" of an audit? The auditor will steal your precious Jita trading secrets?
ninjaedit: also, the difference is not 840B, afaik T4U started as 200B and 850B is a rough figure of ALL the businesses he had scammed. So yeah, you're getting closer
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Momus Maximus
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Posted - 2010.09.13 07:18:00 -
[20]
Not that I think audits can prevent, or even detect scamming (outside of seeing absolute, direct evidence of one with API access), I would imagine that if somebody were willing to do an audit within a reasonable period of time, and at no cost to the OP, he/she should be completely willing to comply with one.
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Alacta Lithia
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Posted - 2010.09.13 07:33:00 -
[21]
Would like to reserve 500mil.
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Kolimara
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.09.13 07:40:00 -
[22]
reserve 250 Shares for me pls (250m) :D
im always up too late for the other investments.. so i hope i can join in here :D
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.13 08:22:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Did you check in with Vaerah Vahrokha about what timeline would be required for an update audit, or did you decide against an audit without looking into it
I am sorry but not only I have audit requests piling, I also have to go away off my region to perform some work on a client's factory.
Finally, Cheque is now beyond the "easy to detect" scam thresold, an audit would really only cover pure performance statistics but would not give an ounce of "safety" (they never do, but now even less).
The investors will have to assess the risk off a quickly rising slope in the investment amounts and see if this fits with their risk management or not.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.13 08:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ortacu
What's the "fear" of an audit? The auditor will steal your precious Jita trading secrets?
It's the market magician code. David Copperfield doesn't have people in the stands demanding an audit every time he saws a lady in half.
To all the naysayers: I look forward to proving you wrong.
To all those who placed a reservation: thanks, list updated. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr
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Posted - 2010.09.13 08:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 13/09/2010 09:00:00 How much public isk do you currently have in your possession?
I think this is probably a starter question that should be answered this point forward given the recent large scams. As public monies goes up, so does that chance to scam. I think this is true for nearly any person. It seems the most important question, and one that would make every investor scamproof, is what level any given player or offering is their "scam threshhold."
-GV
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Ortacu
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Posted - 2010.09.13 09:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cheque Please
Originally by: Ortacu
What's the "fear" of an audit? The auditor will steal your precious Jita trading secrets?
It's the market magician code. David Copperfield doesn't have people in the stands demanding an audit every time he saws a lady in half.
To all the naysayers: I look forward to proving you wrong.
To all those who placed a reservation: thanks, list updated.
And another BS smokescreen. Really, it's the exact same style as BB's .
...anyway, this IPO won't prove anything, or anyone wrong, rest assured. You'd be a sucker to scam for this pocket change rather than make it another step towards the big bucks. Everyone will scam eventually. It just depends on the sum that ticks off the balance
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clixoras
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Posted - 2010.09.13 09:08:00 -
[27]
Confirming that i like the non-wall-of-text IPO info and totally ignoring the lack of other information because of it.
So i'll take 500m please.
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2010.09.13 09:12:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/09/2010 09:14:56 Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/09/2010 09:12:57
Originally by: Ortacu
And another BS smokescreen. Really, it's the exact same style as BB's .
Not really, it's just that I learned my lesson in my first bond after 7 pages spent trying to convince naysayers that I wasn't a scammer. In the end,that thread had more in common with a public lynching than anything trade related. So why bother? I'll simply launch this bond, pay it off successfully, and look forward to your next appearance.
Originally by: clixoras Confirming that i like the non-wall-of-text IPO info and totally ignoring the lack of other information because of it.
So i'll take 500m please.
not sure if serious.jpg --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.09.13 09:56:00 -
[29]
Must admit some gut feeling is telling me eventually Cheque Please will be saying Cheque Please and cashing out sooner or later. Hot Like... well, a stolen item?
All the showboating doesn't help alleviate this either. Well it won't affect me as I'm not investing but I just wanted to throw this out there. People in MD some of them don't seem to mind being scammed by most of the timid responses in BB's thread anyway.
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Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2010.09.13 10:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cheque Please Confirming that I am indeed a Bad Bobby alt.
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids...
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