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CaleAdaire	Posted - 2010.09.14 00:11:00 - [1] Edited by: CaleAdaire on 14/09/2010 00:15:51 So I am a fairly new player to EVE Online. I have been active for approximately 5 months now. I have found the gameplay to be engaging and the level of player interaction to be far beyond that of ANY game out there, even World of Warcraft cannot compete with the amount of player based interaction. However with all of these accolades behind them, and so much emphasis on a system where players become the "good" or "bad" guys and run the economy; how could CCP leave out what is possibly the most powerful player tool available. What tool could that be? Player generated Mods. WoW allows players to create mods for HUDs and much more. CCP should allow us as players to at least create simple HUD mods so we can customize our displays. I understand the need for security in EVE, and how modding could jeopardize that, but with strict rules and players supporting these rules Mods could help fill in some what may be missing or could allow us to streamline our displays and make our gameplay more efficient. In short, the Pro's of allowing player created mods far outweight the Con's, security risks can be mitigated by players being involved and ever vigilant for those who are abusing the ability to create mods, and last, gamers would have one more element of control in New Eden, and isn't that what EVE is about? Player control and interaction on an unheard of scale.
mrpapageorgio Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.14 02:27:00 - [2] You clearly don't understand eve or ccp yet from the 5 months you've been playing.
Hack Harrison Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.14 02:35:00 - [3] No. There are enough issues with people getting around the game at the moment (monkey sphere etc...) and the macro writers without giving them more avenues to attack/exploit. <tl;dr> Not supported
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2010.09.14 02:57:00 - [4] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 14/09/2010 02:57:53 Originally by: CaleAdaire Edited by: CaleAdaire on 14/09/2010 00:15:51 So I am a fairly new player to EVE Online. I have been active for approximately 5 months now. What makes you think you have any sense of understanding when you make foolish comparisons like you just did? Don't even bother to fathom any changes. Most especially when you start comparing Kindergarden finger paint (WOW) to EVE online. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Shwedagon Paya	Posted - 2010.09.14 03:09:00 - [5] Inability to mod the UI keeps everyone on a (relatively) level playing field. Who are you to say that the pros of UI modding outweigh the cons? Perhaps the need to install thirty mods just to remain competitive, the bizzaro jumbled-up garbage interface that usually results from this, and the risk of cheating and exploiting outweigh the pros? Not supported.
Jack NovemberSeven	Posted - 2010.09.14 03:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 14/09/2010 02:57:53 Originally by: CaleAdaire Edited by: CaleAdaire on 14/09/2010 00:15:51 So I am a fairly new player to EVE Online. I have been active for approximately 5 months now. What makes you think you have any sense of understanding when you make foolish comparisons like you just did? Don't even bother to fathom any changes. Most especially when you start comparing Kindergarden finger paint (WOW) to EVE online. Yeah... I deffinately didnt make a comparison. I made a refference. there is a big difference between the two. In a comparison I would have linked similarities between the two games. Seeing as how I never linked any similarities, I only made a REFFERENCE to a dynamic and active part of their player base, and said that it would be a great tool for this game; what would make you think that you have any sense of understanding? now a comparison would be me comparing your childish and immature response to that of a typical WoWer. see what i did there. THAT was a comparison. as for you other guys, Mods dont change the game only the visuals and interface in the computer that the mod is downloaded on so new players wouldnt have to use mods until they personally felt they were ready and when more experienced ppl used them it wouldnt give them any real advantage over newbs or miners. and yes i do understand EvE and CCP because if i didnt would i have made a proposal in this forum
CaleAdaire	Posted - 2010.09.14 03:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 14/09/2010 02:57:53 Originally by: CaleAdaire Edited by: CaleAdaire on 14/09/2010 00:15:51 So I am a fairly new player to EVE Online. I have been active for approximately 5 months now. What makes you think you have any sense of understanding when you make foolish comparisons like you just did? Don't even bother to fathom any changes. Most especially when you start comparing Kindergarden finger paint (WOW) to EVE online. Yeah... I deffinately didnt make a comparison. I made a refference. there is a big difference between the two. In a comparison I would have linked similarities between the two games. Seeing as how I never linked any similarities, I only made a REFFERENCE to a dynamic and active part of their player base, and said that it would be a great tool for this game; what would make you think that you have any sense of understanding? now a comparison would be me comparing your childish and immature response to that of a typical WoWer. see what i did there. THAT was a comparison. as for you other guys, Mods dont change the game only the visuals and interface in the computer that the mod is downloaded on so new players wouldnt have to use mods until they personally felt they were ready and when more experienced ppl used them it wouldnt give them any real advantage over newbs or miners. and yes i do understand EvE and CCP because if i didnt would i have made a proposal in this forum
captain foivos	Posted - 2010.09.14 03:27:00 - [8] Originally by: CaleAdaire yes i do understand EvE and CCP because if i didnt i would have made a proposal in this forum You said it yourself. Will pay cash monies for the confirmed destruction of Beachura and/or her property.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.09.14 03:48:00 - [9] For the love of all that is holy, please learn to separate your stream of consciousness writing into paragraphs? In World of Warcraft, the user-generated UI extras are called "AddOns" - "mods" invokes ideas of converting Homeworld to use EVE Online ship models, or writing new content to produce "Counterstrike" on top of the Halflife engine for example. AddOns achieve their effectiveness by the game providing an XML/LUA engine under which is an API which provides the LUA code access to certain data structures, along with controlled mechanisms to activate game features (eg: start casting a spell). WoW is an example of how releasing code on two platforms simultaneously can increase the overall quality of the software, and it is an example of where providing the API for a UI makes the game code itself cleaner since there is a better separation between game client/local simulator and the UI. CCP is now discovering through their "thin client" what Blizzard has known all along: there are places in the code where you can do things more cleanly, there are plenty of efficiency gains to be achieved by refactoring the code that's been lying untouched for years. In my opinion, adding the ability to customise your UI will be a lot of work for CCP, but all that work will be extremely useful in terms of identifying further UI/simulation bottlenecks, cleaning up data and command flows, and rethinking just how much data needs to be sent to the client, and just how much trust needs to be put in the client doing things "the right way" - such as allowing the client to decide when to sign on to the Local channel after the simulation has started accepting input from flight controls. Pushing for development of the UI engine and API that will allow something along the lines of AddOns for EVE Online is a great way to dig up all this messy code and get it cleaned up by the teams who have a vested interest in getting that code fit for purpose. Personally, I'd love to have a UI that was subtly different when flying Caldari ships versus Minmatar ships. Something along the lines of the different UI in StarCraft when playing Zerg/Protoss/Terran. Alliances could even tailor their "Corporate SOE" UI to suit their particular style of Zealot/Guardian gang, or their particular style of SB gang. Giving players control over the fiddly little things like having chat windows staying stacked between logins, or properly rearranging overview windows when resizing the screen, means that CCP can focus on other more important things like cleaning up the code base, focussing on the quality of their simulator and 3D modelling. The thousands of players who have an interest in tinkering with UIs to make them prettier/more functional/more efficient will have a greater impact on the game than the dozens of CCP-paid developers who - while doing an excellent job given their time constraints - just don't have the hours in a year to put the polish into the UI that contemporary gamers demand. CCP could start by moving the current interface to the community/crowdsource domain, documenting the allowed API, and leaving it to the community to sort out the issues of location/size/operation of overloading buttons, while the UI team focusses on giving the community better UI building tools. As for concerns about customisable UI being exploitable by bots? I'm sure there are bots out there that talk EVE protocol directly to the server without any CCP client code being involved. The way to handle bots is to assume that the client cannot be trusted to be "human". Design the game to reward human capabilities (ie: interaction with other humans) and punish robot cababilities (ie: the love of things that are easily automated). -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]

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