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Renix Xerar	Posted - 2010.09.15 03:14:00 - [1] I was jwing what might be the best bship to fit for short range rr fleet pvp. Fits would also be very helpful.
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.09.15 03:19:00 - [2] Er... if you're adamant about fitting torps, there are really only two viable candidates (at least as far as non-faction ships are concerned). Most RR gangs armor tank, which narrows it down to one. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
ScottyDosn'tKnow Task Force Zener Blade.	Posted - 2010.09.15 03:41:00 - [3] Agree with the last reply. If you have to fit torps I would go with Raven or Scorpion. I perfer Scorpion as it's nice to have ecm in the gang.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere	Posted - 2010.09.15 03:52:00 - [4] Originally by: ScottyDosn'tKnow Agree with the last reply. If you have to fit torps I would go with Raven or Scorpion. I perfer Scorpion as it's nice to have ecm in the gang. Hohohoho (Typhoon, OP) ___________________
Clara Espion	Posted - 2010.09.15 03:54:00 - [5] I'm sure he meant the typhoon
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.09.15 04:02:00 - [6] Yes, I was most definitely referring to the 'phoon. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.15 04:58:00 - [7] To be fair the Faction Scorpion is one hell of a boat! Now the Raven Packs a Harder Torpedo Punch and truly shines when you fit no Tackle and Heavy and have another ship web them down and apply your 2 Target Painters. It is excellent as the Heavy Hitter in a small sheild gang, a gate/station camp or ganking mission runners. The Typhoon on the other hand is great for Large Fleets and Armour Gangs. It can put a Bonused and 1 Target Painter Torpedo Volloy at Targets as well as Carry 5 Heavy Drones and an Assortment of others in it's Drone bay. It has 3 utility for Nuets and RR and is Armor Tanked. It's only down side is a shorter range then the Raven, High Fitting Requirements and its speed especially When Trimarked. The Raven is harder to use but better at what it does, while the Typhoon enjoys more versitillity and is better suited to larger engagements. -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1
Hamatitio Caldari Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:23:00 - [8] the phoon is surprisingly difficult to fit when you start throwing everything you want on it. And the raven simply cant have the resist:armor ratio needed for larger fights. They both look good on paper, but in practice, they are tough. That being said, if you have to have one, go with the typhoon. :) Originally by: Forrest Gump And that's all I got to say 'bout that.
Millie Clode Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Hamatitio the phoon is surprisingly difficult to fit when you start throwing everything you want on it. So fit it for a singular purpose. It can do anything, but it can't do everything. But yeah, torp ravens are better on paper than they are in action, Typhoon is the real deal. ---------- Who, me?
Goose99	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:01:00 - [10] Armor tanking is only the norm for large null blobs. Small lowsec gangs where you'd normally use close range fits are better off shield tanked. Of course, Phon can manage both armor and shield.

Millie Clode Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Goose99 Armor tanking is only the norm for large null blobs. Errr, nope? I mean drake gangs with basi support are cool and everything, but RRBS and armorHAC gangs still pwn pretty much everything in lowsec (other than hotdrops o'course). ---------- Who, me?
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:18:00 - [12] Great generalization, Goose. Doesn't make you look like an idiot at all. ___________________
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:43:00 - [13] Edited by: Von Kroll on 15/09/2010 19:43:54 Originally by: Millie Clode But yeah, torp ravens are better on paper than they are in action If you're going to put plates on them and support them with Guardians, no doubt. I contend that a plated Raven in an armor RRBS gang is a duck out of water. A Torp Raven properly fitted (aka shield tanked), supported, and employed is a devastating capability at ranges <30km.
Ralnik Mutineers	Posted - 2010.09.15 20:20:00 - [14] Edited by: Ralnik on 15/09/2010 20:21:29 Originally by: Millie Clode Originally by: Goose99 Armor tanking is only the norm for large null blobs. Errr, nope? I mean drake gangs with basi support are cool and everything, but RRBS and armorHAC gangs still pwn pretty much everything in lowsec (other than hotdrops o'course). I disagree.. Shield tanked Canes are among some of the best ships in space right now. I'd go as far as to say that since the tracking enhancer & projectile buff the shield tanked cane is far superior to a armor tanked cane, especially in small gangs. Not quite the same for BS's as the OP asked about, but armor gangs are slowly losing their total dominance.
Millie Clode Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 15/09/2010 20:21:29 Originally by: Millie Clode Originally by: Goose99 Armor tanking is only the norm for large null blobs. Errr, nope? I mean drake gangs with basi support are cool and everything, but RRBS and armorHAC gangs still pwn pretty much everything in lowsec (other than hotdrops o'course). I disagree.. Shield tanked Canes are among some of the best ships in space right now. I'd go as far as to say that since the tracking enhancer & projectile buff the shield tanked cane is far superior to a armor tanked cane, especially in small gangs. Not quite the same for BS's as the OP asked about, but armor gangs are slowly losing their total dominance. Alphacane gangs are another sweet move, admittedly, but if an opposing gang either manages to get a good warpin on has decent tacklers the extra mobility gets nullified and the increased sig from the shield tank will get them killed. Like any gang it has its counters. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the resurgance of sub-BS (read BC/HAC) fleets that are effective against the standard BS-gang setups, but to claim that the dominance of armour tank is in some way disputed is plain wrong. Until large shield transporters are made as reasonable and easy to fit and sustain on BSes as large remote armour reps then shield tanked BS gangs will always be the poor relation ---------- Who, me?
Goose99	Posted - 2010.09.15 23:04:00 - [16] Edited by: Goose99 on 15/09/2010 23:07:04 Originally by: Millie Clode Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 15/09/2010 20:21:29 Originally by: Millie Clode Originally by: Goose99 Armor tanking is only the norm for large null blobs. Errr, nope? I mean drake gangs with basi support are cool and everything, but RRBS and armorHAC gangs still pwn pretty much everything in lowsec (other than hotdrops o'course). I disagree.. Shield tanked Canes are among some of the best ships in space right now. I'd go as far as to say that since the tracking enhancer & projectile buff the shield tanked cane is far superior to a armor tanked cane, especially in small gangs. Not quite the same for BS's as the OP asked about, but armor gangs are slowly losing their total dominance. Alphacane gangs are another sweet move, admittedly, but if an opposing gang either manages to get a good warpin on has decent tacklers the extra mobility gets nullified and the increased sig from the shield tank will get them killed. Like any gang it has its counters. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the resurgance of sub-BS (read BC/HAC) fleets that are effective against the standard BS-gang setups, but to claim that the dominance of armour tank is in some way disputed is plain wrong. Until large shield transporters are made as reasonable and easy to fit and sustain on BSes as large remote armour reps then shield tanked BS gangs will always be the poor relation "Reasonable" is relative, depending on a ship's grid/cpu ratio. What's reasonable for a carrier is not the same as cruiser hull logi. It also happens that the overrated Amar ships have poor cpu, while the caldari missile boat with high cpu aren't suitable for blobbing. Lowsec gangs are typically made of sub-bs sized ships, supported by shield rr cruiser hull logi, and sometimes minor shield spider. Speed is more desirable than stacked plates and cpu is not tight. This is why armor rr is not the norm there.
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2010.09.16 03:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Von Kroll on 16/09/2010 03:16:06 Originally by: Millie Clode Until large shield transporters are made as reasonable and easy to fit and sustain on BSes as large remote armour reps then shield tanked BS gangs will always be the poor relation Ravens and Scorpions can easily fit torps, buffer, and large shield x-fers. Trying to put shield x-fer on any ship that can't handle the CPU is more of the "duck out of water" stuff I was talking about earlier. The issue is that most Close range battleships fit better with armor tanks and armor remote repping. That leaves the Raven out for sure, and hamstrings the Scorpion.
Shade Millith Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.16 10:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Von Kroll Edited by: Von Kroll on 16/09/2010 03:16:06 Originally by: Millie Clode Until large shield transporters are made as reasonable and easy to fit and sustain on BSes as large remote armour reps then shield tanked BS gangs will always be the poor relation Ravens and Scorpions can easily fit torps, buffer, and large shield x-fers. Trying to put shield x-fer on any ship that can't handle the CPU is more of the "duck out of water" stuff I was talking about earlier. The issue is that most Close range battleships fit better with armor tanks and armor remote repping. That leaves the Raven out for sure, and hamstrings the Scorpion. Raven can still do an armor tank. BCU, 1600 plate, 2 EANM's, DC and 3 trimarks can get you around 96k ehp, or you can do BCU, 2 1600 plates, one EANM, DC and 3 tri's for 101k EHP (using a 3% PG implant). No it doesn't get as heavy a tank as a 5 slot tanked mega, but you can still get a good buffer. Doing so leaves you room for dual webs, dual TP's and a point, MWD for the mids. That's pretty deadly to anything within 10km's Of course it's not the best, but for some (Like me) who have poor skills for turrets/non-caldari ships it does work ------------------------
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2010.09.16 12:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Shade Millith Raven can still do an armor tank. BCU, 1600 plate, 2 EANM's, DC and 3 trimarks can get you around 96k ehp, or you can do BCU, 2 1600 plates, one EANM, DC and 3 tri's for 101k EHP (using a 3% PG implant). No it doesn't get as heavy a tank as a 5 slot tanked mega, but you can still get a good buffer. Doing so leaves you room for dual webs, dual TP's and a point, MWD for the mids. That's pretty deadly to anything within 10km's Of course it's not the best, but for some (Like me) who have poor skills for turrets/non-caldari ships it does work But you don't have enough grid for either fit to include a remote armor repper and cap booster, which is the point of RR BS right? And, even if you go without the RR, doing this brings the Torp Ravens once impressive 1000+ DPS firepower down to 70% of that. To the point where I'd ask "why bother?". There's another ship from either of the 3 armor races that can do it conspicuously better. Just like you can't expect an armor ship to fit shield transfers, you shouldn't expect a Caldari ship to work in an armor RR BS gang and not gimp its firepower, or in the Scorp's case, its jam strength. Just my opinion...I know a lot of EvE would disagree...
Shade Millith Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.18 10:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Von Kroll Originally by: Shade Millith Raven can still do an armor tank. BCU, 1600 plate, 2 EANM's, DC and 3 trimarks can get you around 96k ehp, or you can do BCU, 2 1600 plates, one EANM, DC and 3 tri's for 101k EHP (using a 3% PG implant). No it doesn't get as heavy a tank as a 5 slot tanked mega, but you can still get a good buffer. Doing so leaves you room for dual webs, dual TP's and a point, MWD for the mids. That's pretty deadly to anything within 10km's Of course it's not the best, but for some (Like me) who have poor skills for turrets/non-caldari ships it does work But you don't have enough grid for either fit to include a remote armor repper and cap booster, which is the point of RR BS right? And, even if you go without the RR, doing this brings the Torp Ravens once impressive 1000+ DPS firepower down to 70% of that. To the point where I'd ask "why bother?". There's another ship from either of the 3 armor races that can do it conspicuously better. Just like you can't expect an armor ship to fit shield transfers, you shouldn't expect a Caldari ship to work in an armor RR BS gang and not gimp its firepower, or in the Scorp's case, its jam strength. Just my opinion...I know a lot of EvE would disagree... I didn't actually realise it was in terms of a RR BS gang, too used to an armor gang involving guardians. Yea, you'd have some trouble fitting a armor rep and a cap booster. The rep by itself could be done if you just removed all the plates and used EANM's/Hardeners Quote: I'd ask "why bother?". Skills. I have Caldari BS 5, Siege launcher spec 4, compared to Gallente BS 3, and T1 large Hybrids. I'll have far more damage output, with a far higher range, in the armor tanked raven then if I used a mega with blasters. And with dual TP/Dual web, any of the usual problems torps have hitting smaller craft are severly reduced, very much so under 10km's ------------------------

moranno	Posted - 2010.09.19 18:06:00 - [21] I`m a maxed out caldari/minnie pilot.Typhoon is better.Period.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.09.20 09:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Von Kroll But you don't have enough grid for either fit to include a remote armor repper and cap booster, which is the point of RR BS right? And, even if you go without the RR, doing this brings the Torp Ravens once impressive 1000+ DPS firepower down to 70% of that. To the point where I'd ask "why bother?". There's another ship from either of the 3 armor races that can do it conspicuously better. Just like you can't expect an armor ship to fit shield transfers, you shouldn't expect a Caldari ship to work in an armor RR BS gang and not gimp its firepower, or in the Scorp's case, its jam strength. Just my opinion...I know a lot of EvE would disagree... Although a Typhoon is certainly generally better, it won't fit the four tracking disruptors that the armour-Raven will. As for the PG problems, well, dropping to a med cap injector and dual med RR helps. After all, you're the Caldari BS in an armour BS gang - you're going to get primaried, so who are you going to rep?


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