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CCP Aknowledges C6 issue

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JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 13:31:00 - [1] Just linking it so those of us (myself included) can stop whining asking for ccp to at least say something about it. http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4119&tid=1
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.18 13:44:00 - [2] thank you
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:15:00 - [3] Good one!
GreaseMonkeyAlt	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:19:00 - [4] What is the exploit?
Desert Ice78	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/09/2010 15:22:15 Honestly, I'm a bit surprised. R&K reversed engineered the exploit, why didn't they just take the system, and thereafter milk it all for themselves.
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:21:00 - [6] Edited by: JC Anderson on 18/09/2010 15:26:10 Originally by: GreaseMonkeyAlt What is the exploit? Cant discuss the details on these forums. Basically there had been a ton of posts on the forums today about this, but they violated CCP's policy of discussing the specific nature of the exploit. So I was simply posting the link to CCP's news item on it in hopes people would see it and not have to start a new thread about it. ;)
de votso Caldari Black Sun. QQ Connoisseur's	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:24:00 - [7] Its not just C6. Possible to do in a C1
Jove Karede	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:27:00 - [8] Originally by: GreaseMonkeyAlt What is the exploit? Look on the non-Eve-O forums. You can find out all about it. Censorship is futile!!
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:29:00 - [9] Originally by: GreaseMonkeyAlt What is the exploit? If we tell you that..wed have to kill you (in game)
Zirse Minmatar ZED Industries	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Zirse on 18/09/2010 15:29:52 http://www.massively.com/category/eve-online
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Zirse Edited by: Zirse on 18/09/2010 15:29:52 http://www.massively.com/category/eve-online Great job smart guy..ibtl
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:33:00 - [12] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Zirse Edited by: Zirse on 18/09/2010 15:29:52 http://www.massively.com/category/eve-online Great job smart guy..ibtl Was about to comment on that too. ;) Maybe he will edit out the link if nudged enough.
Gaius Clabbacus	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/09/2010 15:22:15 Honestly, I'm a bit surprised. R&K reversed engineered the exploit, why didn't they just take the system, and thereafter milk it all for themselves. And why would we want to do that?
Desert Ice78	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Gaius Clabbacus Originally by: Desert Ice78 Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/09/2010 15:22:15 Honestly, I'm a bit surprised. R&K reversed engineered the exploit, why didn't they just take the system, and thereafter milk it all for themselves. And why would we want to do that? Why would you not want to do that?
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.18 15:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Why would you not want to do that? Not everyone is a cheater
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.09.18 16:15:00 - [16] IBTR
Fat Uncle	Posted - 2010.09.18 17:09:00 - [17] News at 17:00: apperently the issue has been known for some time and a poster (on a different forum) who claims to be a member of the suspected offending corp admits to using the effect regardless.
illford baker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.09.18 17:14:00 - [18] sticky this so people will stop posting about it? because if they just keep on locking things, people will see "oh, nothing about it on front page, time to make a thread!"
Latex Sandals	Posted - 2010.09.18 17:46:00 - [19] Edited by: Latex Sandals on 18/09/2010 17:46:25 http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606472
Mr SmartGuy	Posted - 2010.09.18 17:52:00 - [20] Originally by: HeIIfire11 Great job smart guy..ibtl Oi! That wasn't me!
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 17:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Originally by: HeIIfire11 Great job smart guy..ibtl Oi! That wasn't me! lol Thats like when ever anybody in game is talking about a JC (Jump Clone) I always think they are discussing me.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Mr SmartGuy Originally by: HeIIfire11 Great job smart guy..ibtl Oi! That wasn't me! No not this timeyou were slackin =P
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:24:00 - [23] I would have just disabled the WH debuff right away while work began on a fix, but what do i know. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:26:00 - [24] This has been around for months by the way. CCP incompetence yet again. ___________________
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:26:00 - [25] Unlike the Monkeysphere "no local" issue, we don't see the entire alliance in here obfuscating, detracting, setting up straw men arguments, etc. If the ban hammer falls when it didn't fall for that issue, then a wrong message will be sent (the message being that going into the forums and arguing every point like a lawyer will save you from the banhammer).
Fat Uncle	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:38:00 - [26] News at 18:30: someone claiming to be a former CEO and active member of suspected cheating corp posts on external forum and admits to ordering the fleet to use a known exploit as recent as last week. As yet no further comments from CCP.
Parsee789	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:45:00 - [27] This might be also a sign for CCP for change their turret mechanics. It doesn't make sense how blasters can't track something that's right in front of it moving at a slow speed.
Desert Ice78	Posted - 2010.09.18 18:47:00 - [28] Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/09/2010 18:51:40 Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Desert Ice78 Why would you not want to do that? Not everyone is a cheater Is it really cheating? It is an exploit, but they didn't create the exploit. The exploit is there because CCP sucks at basic coding. They petitioned it and got the go ahead from a senior GM. Not much more that you can do really. You got a big shiney super gun you not going to use it?
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/09/2010 18:51:40 Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Desert Ice78 Why would you not want to do that? Not everyone is a cheater Is it really cheating? It is an exploit, but they didn't create the exploit. WTS clue. Yes exploiting a software defect makes you a cheater, obviously. The claim they petitioned about it and got the go ahead is just that, a claim, and is worth as much as the word of any other cheater (it may even be true, anyone who tried to deal with any complex issue with GMs will vouch for that).
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/09/2010 18:51:40 Originally by: HeIIfire11 Originally by: Desert Ice78 Why would you not want to do that? Not everyone is a cheater Is it really cheating? It is an exploit, but they didn't create the exploit. The exploit is there because CCP sucks at basic coding. They petitioned it and got the go ahead from a senior GM. Not much more that you can do really. You got a big shiney super gun you not going to use it? Ill be honst with you.If I had found it I would have used it too..to get rich.But the moment they used it against other players it became cheating.I would have made my isk with it and after a while..reported it to have my back against the wall.Its not like you can go on another server when you get banned.I put years into this character.They were stupid to think no one would find out and press print screen.
Vyktor Abyss The 8th Order	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:27:00 - [31] The exploit concerns Aperture Harmonics corp's (and thier supposedly GM sanctioned) use of the tracking penalty in a type C6 wormhole combined with tracking disrupting friendly ships to bork the tracking formula so hard that it actually produces guns capable of perfect tracking, range and hit chance (249.9km perfect hit Blasters anyone?) - the issue also affects damping (damping to reduce target range to <0km) and maybe some other effects apparently. And...It really annoys me you have to go to another site to actually find this out. Like censorship really stops the exploiting/rage/annoyance at CCP from happening. Thanks to Rooks and Kings for mentioning this on SHC. Broken mechanics used by a "clever" corp? Well I never... CCP: YOU MAY TAKE AWAY MY POST BUT YOU CAN NEVER STOP THE TRUTH FROM COMING OUT.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss truth Uh oh. You were bad - this is the dishonesty and misdirection forum. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:34:00 - [33] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss The exploit concerns Aperture Harmonics corp's (and thier supposedly GM sanctioned) use of the tracking penalty in a type C6 wormhole combined with tracking disrupting friendly ships to bork the tracking formula so hard that it actually produces guns capable of perfect tracking, range and hit chance (249.9km perfect hit Blasters anyone?) - the issue also affects damping (damping to reduce target range to <0km) and maybe some other effects apparently. And...It really annoys me you have to go to another site to actually find this out. Like censorship really stops the exploiting/rage/annoyance at CCP from happening. Thanks to Rooks and Kings for mentioning this on SHC. Broken mechanics used by a "clever" corp? Well I never... CCP: YOU MAY TAKE AWAY MY POST BUT YOU CAN NEVER STOP THE TRUTH FROM COMING OUT. Newsflash moron, they arent trying to stop it getting out. Discussing exploits is against the forum rules hence the threads get locked, just as this one will now youve been stupid enough to post the details. If you really feel the need to jaw about a bunch of cheaters then theres plenty of unofficial forums to go do it on but please save us the trolling bull**** when the mods are just doing their jobs. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Darek Castigatus Originally by: Vyktor Abyss The exploit concerns Aperture Harmonics corp's (and thier supposedly GM sanctioned) use of the tracking penalty in a type C6 wormhole combined with tracking disrupting friendly ships to bork the tracking formula so hard that it actually produces guns capable of perfect tracking, range and hit chance (249.9km perfect hit Blasters anyone?) - the issue also affects damping (damping to reduce target range to <0km) and maybe some other effects apparently. And...It really annoys me you have to go to another site to actually find this out. Like censorship really stops the exploiting/rage/annoyance at CCP from happening. Thanks to Rooks and Kings for mentioning this on SHC. Broken mechanics used by a "clever" corp? Well I never... CCP: YOU MAY TAKE AWAY MY POST BUT YOU CAN NEVER STOP THE TRUTH FROM COMING OUT. Newsflash moron, they arent trying to stop it getting out. Discussing exploits is against the forum rules hence the threads get locked, just as this one will now youve been stupid enough to post the details. If you really feel the need to jaw about a bunch of cheaters then theres plenty of unofficial forums to go do it on but please save us the trolling bull**** when the mods are just doing their jobs. So far they've just been removing posts in this thread instead of locking it outright, which I thank them for. And on the above note; IMHO I believe the rule is so that people don't find out the details of the exploit on the forums then go use it for themselves before it is fixed. ;)
Vyktor Abyss The 8th Order	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:44:00 - [35] Newsflash for you my friend, shame...this thread was really going places too... Regarding forum rules, I don't give a toss: I read this thread first and got annoyed it had no content, so went to SHC and read up on it, then posted here to stop others getting annoyed by this thread. If the content of my post gets this thread locked then that is a satisfying irony, almost as satisfying as annoying rule-quoting officious fools like you. Got that my friend?
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2010.09.18 19:53:00 - [36] CCP doesn't want us to post exploits in the forums because they don't want people to use them. They aren't trying to misdirect people or anything. They are trying to prevent people from using the exploit. You may think that you are evening out the playing field, but you are simply spreading wildfire. The exploit WILL be fixed, and there's a good chance that lots of people will be banned too. This is similar to how CCP removes links to ISK selling websites and censors anything advocating purchasing ISK from illegitimate avenues. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Vyktor Abyss The 8th Order	Posted - 2010.09.18 20:03:00 - [37] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 18/09/2010 20:06:10 Well it seems the mods have been in and cleaned the people I was replying to - tactical forum warfare, best warfare c/d?
GreaseMonkeyAlt	Posted - 2010.09.18 20:18:00 - [38] Just read about the exploit on another forum. All I have to say is FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2010.09.18 21:30:00 - [39] Terms of Service rule 23: You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website. "Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given." - Rule 23 effectively means, if you discuss exploits on ANY forum - your account has banning potential. This means whoever discovers an exploitable bug and reports/posts about it in a non-CCP forum has the same potential banning as anyone using it. If you find out about a bug or that people have/are/plan to use, ffs just bug report it. Don't plot and scheme, don't brag about the fact you worked it out through hours of deduction and subterfuge, and certainly don't post/blog about it. Just bug report it and move on. Learn to overcome your ego's needs/wants/desires and just follow the rules - which you agreed to when you set up an account. AK
Ais Hellia	Posted - 2010.09.18 21:43:00 - [40] Originally by: AlleyKat If you find out about a bug or that people have/are/plan to use, ffs just bug report it. ... and certainly don't post/blog about it. For CCP could put it on the long shelf and forget about it very convinient
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:08:00 - [41] Posting in a thread demonstrating CCP's inability to code very simple functions and their use of ToS rules to avoid having to be publicly humiliated by that fact.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:14:00 - [42] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 18/09/2010 22:16:03 Game companies do feel that they have a point in that exploits needs to simply be reported and not broadcast to everyone everwherye in order to not force the developers hand in fixing it. instantly. part of this is that kneejerk fixes usualy make things worse. Part of it is because honestly most exploits dont show up as being widly exploited or on peoples radar unless someone blabs or goes complatly bonkers with it for quite a while while they work on fixing it. granted all too often the fact that most exploits tend to only be found by a relitive handfull of people who dont expoit it can sometimes blow up in the developers face the way the T2 reaction expoit did. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:19:00 - [43] Hmm, okay so I wonder how exactly this thing is exploiting, they get an advantage when shooting other people, okay, so what is their alternative, don't shoot and getting podded? Or should the supposed offenders have moved away from their home? If they reported this, I don't see the problem ... http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:22:00 - [44] someone rigs longs Vs someone exploting to use shorts at the same ranges only often without the penalties that the person who riged long. nuf said. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Ais Hellia	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 18/09/2010 22:16:03 Game companies do feel that they have a point in that exploits needs to simply be reported and not broadcast to everyone everwherye in order to not force the developers hand in fixing it. instantly. Exactly Devs can't be distracted from tweaking planet stuff and evegate and all other tremendously important things we all can't live without. Sansha invasions, how could i forget about sansha invasions, that will be epic. Screw broken game mechanics, who cares...
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:39:00 - [46] Originally by: AlleyKat This means whoever discovers an exploitable bug and reports/posts about it in a non-CCP forum has the same potential banning as anyone using it. False the will probably only be able to ban you if you admit on forums that you posted something against the rules. It doesnt matter if you uuse the same name either. They dont have the supena power to check the IP of posters on private forums. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Adyny Rieph	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:42:00 - [47] Alright, so I just read about the exploit and that people could potentially have been doing it for over a year, making incredible money. So now that they've confirmed it, and when they fix it in 3-30 months time, will anybody actually be banned, or at least have all the profits taken away?
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:42:00 - [48] Originally by: Bomberlocks Posting in a thread demonstrating CCP's inability to code very simple functions and their use of ToS rules to avoid having to be publicly humiliated by that fact. Dont be such a nub. Its the kind of exploit/bug that will happen. It happens in all games. How they deal with it is a big deal, but whining that they allowed the bug to happen is stupid. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Bomberlocks Posting in a thread demonstrating CCP's inability to code very simple functions and their use of ToS rules to avoid having to be publicly humiliated by that fact. Oh give me a ***ing break man - even the best software developers in the whole ***ing world write bugs and its really hard for the content team to know that the development team assumed tracking would never be negative. Learn a bit about software development and grow up please. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Adyny Rieph Alright, so I just read about the exploit and that people could potentially have been doing it for over a year, making incredible money. So now that they've confirmed it, and when they fix it in 3-30 months time, will anybody actually be banned, or at least have all the profits taken away? Probably not because it seems they explicitly asked a GM if it was ok and he gave them permission. I wish CCP would give us some follow info on this point. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Adyny Rieph	Posted - 2010.09.18 22:48:00 - [51] Well, after being in the game for over a year, can it really be called an exploit anymore, or is it just a feature?
Zeke Mobius	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:13:00 - [52] Ive seen f2p games with better Q&A Its one thing after another with this game. Why buy plex when you can just pay your sub, do the wormhole bug thingie with soem buds and just get endless isk? it is endless...
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:25:00 - [53] Edited by: JC Anderson on 18/09/2010 23:30:09 Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Adyny Rieph Alright, so I just read about the exploit and that people could potentially have been doing it for over a year, making incredible money. So now that they've confirmed it, and when they fix it in 3-30 months time, will anybody actually be banned, or at least have all the profits taken away? Probably not because it seems they explicitly asked a GM if it was ok and he gave them permission. I wish CCP would give us some follow info on this point. While we cant discuss details I can say that you didn't hear the full story. Basically the same people who said they were told it wasn't an exploit also said that later it came up again and they were told it WAS an exploit. And that they didn't use it again after that until recently where they did so only because they "thought" the other side knew about it and was going to use it against them. If you search around a bit you can find info on this right from the mouths of those whom will remain nameless. I'm not trying to defend CCP here, but instead just point out that most people only received half the story from certain published articles and other threads. However, the main problem here is that it wasn't taken care of when it should have been.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Adyny Rieph Well, after being in the game for over a year, can it really be called an exploit anymore, or is it just a feature? thats bascial a bogus argument, Bascialy if the developers dont know about it and find out later (or are only able to reproduce it later) and then find out that people have been exploiting it all along then they should drop the banhammer on the people who were exploiting it also lets be blunt,Some of us are very VERY bad at it when it comes to bug reports. Trust me on this, yes they probably have a more or less master log of "Critical events" that happen to your player somewhere in there database, but a bug report that reads "I fellthrough the ground and died" (in fact some developers on a game I will not mention here actualy refer to useless bug reports as "I phase2ed and died" bug reports) is useless when they dont know (1) which one of your inevitable army of toons died (2) when you died (3)WHERE(including which server) you died (4) what you and what your character were doing when you died and (beleive it or not this can often be the most important bit (5) why youthink you should not have died. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Ais Hellia Originally by: AlleyKat If you find out about a bug or that people have/are/plan to use, ffs just bug report it. ... and certainly don't post/blog about it. For CCP could put it on the long shelf and forget about it very convenient They are bugs, Ais. They need reporting. If anyone doesn't beleive action is being taken, there is escalation protocol. If anyone doesn't beleive the escalation protocol is being followed, then there is a petition. If anyone doesn't beleive the petition is being actioned on purpose, then there is internal affairs. If anyone doesn't believe internal affairs is 'working as intended' then pick up a pen and paper and write a letter to the CEO of CCP. You don't drag it out in public - that is against rule 23, which is a rule all account holders have agreed to. AK
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:54:00 - [56] which leads to the real question, did YOU file a bug report on this bug when you found out about it or was today when you found out about it? . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Desert Ice78 Is it really cheating? Yes, it is, actually. By every definition of what an exploit is. And for gravy on top, it is also on the EULA. Quote: It is an exploit, but they didn't create the exploit. The exploit is there because CCP sucks at basic coding. Whether they created this exploit or not it is still an exploit. And the definition of exploiting doesn't mean "you have to create the exploit in order to be accused of using it". This is kind of obvious. Quote: They petitioned it and got the go ahead from a senior GM. Not much more that you can do really. This might be a defence... To some degree. But I guess it would depend on how clear the ~~exploiters~~ upstanding citizens were when the presented the petition (ie was it complete and accurate or misleading?). Quote: You got a big shiney super gun you not going to use it? If it's an exploit and I don't want to be permanently killed from the game? Actually no, I wouldn't want to use it. But that's just me. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.19 00:01:00 - [58] Originally by: CyberGh0st Hmm, okay so I wonder how exactly this thing is exploiting, they get an advantage when shooting other people, okay, so what is their alternative, don't shoot and getting podded? Or should the supposed offenders have moved away from their home? If they reported this, I don't see the problem ... Just off the top of my head, they could have fit their ships for sniping with the proper guns instead of with blasters and have ignored the huge advantage that the exploit gave them. Another solution is to keep the blasters and get into the correct range, and again ignore the huge advantage the exploit lended them. They could have called a "time-out" (they don't HAVE to fight) on the situation. Let the opposing party that there is a technical problem that needs resolving through CCP. Just some ideas. I'm sure there are tons more. They didn't use the exploit because "it was the only way" . That's just an excuse and I'd expect ANY exploiter to say this anyway. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Xybexy	Posted - 2010.09.19 00:36:00 - [59] Hehe, normal CCP reaction time. People find a iffy game mechanic and use it. Perhaps even ask a GM about it. CCP does nothing. Ones more people knows and starts using it, it is declared a bug, exploit and deemed bannable. POS-bowling anyone?

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