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Sethra Theyounger	Posted - 2010.09.20 01:55:00 - [1] This message is for the developers of EVE. You need to do something about people being able to steal mission objectives from people minding their own business and doing missions. It's happened multiple times to me and others in my corp. One way you could do this is by making it so other players can't even get into the mission space of other players unless they're in a fleet together. A way to do this would be to have access keys issued from accepting the mission like some missions have. The keys where you can't even go through the gates without it. You can only get these from accepting missions from agents. Only the people who have the key and the people in their fleet would be able to get into the space where the mission takes place. Another way you could solve this problem is by making mission objectives invisible to everyone except the person on the mission. Ofcourse, mission objectives that come as loot from destroying ships should be put into their own cargo container and if anyone besides the person that's on the mission or a fleetmates tries to open that container they get the warning message that Concord will destroy them if they proceed just like if you fire at someone that didn't do anything to you. All I know is that something has to be done so people stop interfering with other's missions.
knentil	Posted - 2010.09.20 01:58:00 - [2] Edited by: knentil on 20/09/2010 01:59:01 No way... You can't be seri.... oh wait. -facepalm- Hey, just shoot them when they turn red, that will teach em.
Guffimur Rogidi	Posted - 2010.09.20 02:45:00 - [3] What I think the poster above me is trying to say is that Eve is a cold, harsh place and the ability for somebody to steal your mission objectives is there by design. The CCP approved way of dealing with this is to join the alliance of the thief and after gaining a position of trust steal from the alliance. Of course this would make you little better than the original thief, but as I said Eve is a cold, harsh place.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.09.20 02:52:00 - [4] meh run the mission faster next time, and/or get out of ninja infested hubs on a side note wts> 1x damsel, and 1x port r-something residents
Dario Wall	Posted - 2010.09.20 05:21:00 - [5] It might sound harsh, but the other posters are right. If you don't want thieves in your missions, then avoid the popular hubs that everyone goes to. Sure that L4Q20 agent might give you nice rewards and LP, but you also have how many hundreds of other people thinking that same thing? Where you have a large number of mission runners, you'll have a large number of thieves waiting to pounce. Get out of the hubs and you'll almost never see anyone in your missions. Another thing you can do is not pop the target that drops the mission item until it's the last thing left, and you're right on top of it. Most ninjas/thieves don't have guns fit, let alone the damage to take out the mission rats themselves. So by leaving that main target for last, you're pretty close to being ninja-free. But if you're really paranoid about ninjas and thieves taking all your loot/salvage/mission items, then run an alt or have a corpmate tag along to loot/salvage for you. You have the tools already to avoid thieves, you just need to think instead of following the herd.
Disintegrator Minmatar GK inc. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.09.20 07:37:00 - [6] EvE is BIG universe. Just get out of Motsu and Dodixie ...
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.20 07:52:00 - [7] Why must something be done about this again? I read the whole post but I did not see an explanation as to why. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Wolfcheck Pack o' Wolves	Posted - 2010.09.20 08:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Cipher Jones Why must something be done about this again? I read the whole post but I did not see an explanation as to why. Because it happened to him and his corpmates several times. I guess.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.09.20 08:46:00 - [9] Basically you can buy the very same objectives for a handful of ISK in any major trading hub ... where exactly is a problem Regards I.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.09.20 08:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Sethra Theyounger ...wot... Only the people who have the key and the people in their fleet would be able to get into the space where the mission takes place. ...wot... Hehe - this would cause some major disturbance in low and 0sec carebears would love it but pvpers would hate it. I.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.20 08:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Sethra Theyounger You need to do something about people being able to steal mission objectives from people minding their own business and doing missions. Why? Quote: It's happened multiple times to me and others in my corp. àand what have you done about it? What have you learned? How have you changed your tactics? Quote: One way you could do this is by making it so other players can't even get into the mission space of other players unless they're in a fleet together. Creates safe spots in a game where "safe" doesn't exist, by design. Will never ever ever ever happen. Quote: A way to do this would be to have access keys issued from accepting the mission like some missions have. The keys where you can't even go through the gates without it. Same thing here. Quote: All I know is that something has to be done so people stop interfering with other's missions. Why? Orà let me rephrase that: no. That's entirely intentional so nothing has to be done about it. What needs to be done is for you to devise a strategy for reducing the risk of being a target for these kinds of extortions. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Sol Centauri Amarr Titanic Enterprises LTD	Posted - 2010.09.20 09:11:00 - [12] Use a T3 with ECCM and they will go crazy trying to probe you, just don't use drones.
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2010.09.20 10:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Kerfira on 20/09/2010 10:18:54 Originally by: Sethra Theyounger This message is for the developers of EVE. You need to do something about people being able to steal mission objectives from people minding their own business and doing missions. They already did! When they 'steal' the item, they turn red and you can shoot them! EVE is not WoW! This is a game where you BY DESIGN is never safe (except in stations). This is how the game is intended! I got this quote in my sig, but in case you got that turned off: Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world. That should clarify it a bit... Your suggestion is not new either... It has been proposed 100's of times, and when CCP have answered back the answer has been intended to provide the meaning of: "HELL NO!" Now, let us take a look at your own failings in this matter. As it turns out it is all your own fault! You choose to do missions where there are ninja's. That means you select a system that is busy, most likely because of the higher rewards. Ever heard the term risk-reward? It is the basis of EVE... The higher the reward, the higher the risk. You choose to optimise your fit for damage, but neglect making it hard to scan. A module or two designed for that works wonders. You choose to not pick up the mission item before the 'thief'. That is completely your fault! You could either not 'release' the mission objective when he is in the mission, or you could make sure that when you release it you're next to it and ready to pick it up. You can see the reason for all your problems every time you look into a mirror... The game is working as intended, but you just aren't good enough at playing it. The solution is not to make the game easier, but for you to get better at it! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Aldera Discordus	Posted - 2010.09.20 11:36:00 - [14] I don't agree with the OP's suggestions to make mission areas private. However, I think everyone here needs to cut the OP some slack. The advise to shoot the ninja looter when he turns red is a bad idea. 9 times out of 10 it is someone trying to ghode a new mission runner into attacking so he/she can just come back in a bigger/badder ship and wtfpwn the mission runner. Yes, EVE isn't WOW. Yes EVE is a cold, harsh Universe. No, EVE is not designed so players can grief other players. A better suggestion than shooting the ninja looter so he can just come back and blow up the OPs mission boat; faction fit Raven or not, is to maybe War Dec the ninja looter's corp, assuming said ninja looter isn't in a newb corp that is. Just a thought. AD
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2010.09.20 12:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Aldera Discordus The advise to shoot the ninja looter when he turns red is a bad idea. 9 times out of 10 it is someone trying to ghode a new mission runner into attacking so he/she can just come back in a bigger/badder ship and wtfpwn the mission runner. And there is absolutely NOTHING that prevents the mission runner from either: a. Retreat from the mission area with the mission objective once he's shot the offender. If the mission objective has been completed, no sense staying anyway. b. Fit his ship for PvP and wtfpwn the thief when he comes back in his bigger ship. Originally by: Aldera Discordus Yes, EVE isn't WOW. Yes EVE is a cold, harsh Universe. No, EVE is not designed so players can grief other players. Stealing loot is NOT griefing (including mission objectives). This has been stated a lot of times from CCP's side. If you deliberately target a single mission runner and stalks him, that MAY be classified as griefing unless there's a valid reason for it. Originally by: Aldera Discordus A better suggestion than shooting the ninja looter so he can just come back and blow up the OPs mission boat; faction fit Raven or not, is to maybe War Dec the ninja looter's corp, assuming said ninja looter isn't in a newb corp that is. Just a thought. Plenty of suggestions given... That you don't want any of them is your problem, not a problem with the game. No object in EVE 'belongs' to any player unless: a. It is in his hangar. b. He can take it and keep it. If someone takes your mission object (or any other item in you thought belonged to you)... Tough luck! It is no longer yours (unless you can take it back)! The truth is that by accepting a small loss in income, you can almost totally negate the risk of having intruders in your mission. You can do that either by moving to an agent in a non-busy area, or by fitting a suitable ship for being hard to scan. This is a perfect example of EVE's risk-reward philosophy! CCP has made that perfectly clear, and it is not going to get changed just because people like you and the OP want maximum reward without any risk... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.09.20 12:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 20/09/2010 10:18:54 Originally by: Sethra Theyounger This message is for the developers of EVE. You need to do something about people being able to steal mission objectives from people minding their own business and doing missions. They already did! When they 'steal' the item, they turn red and you can shoot them! Um... did they fix this? As I recall, unless CCP changed things, if you steal only the mission objective, you are not flagged as a criminal. It is the only time you can legally steal and not be flagged. Now I'm fine with letting anyone into mission space and all, however, if CCP haven't changed this, I see it as a problem. If you are now flagged crimanal for stealing the mission objective, great, problem solved. If you still are not flagged, well, that does need to b e fixed.
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2010.09.20 13:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia Um... did they fix this? I didn't know there'd been problems with it (or if there still is), and it is fairly obvious that it is not what the OP is referring to, nor Aldera (as they'd then just have suggested it was fixed). I'm currently doing L3's for my alts to R&D grind standings, and I do get flagged to the alt that is claiming the mission (even though we're fleet'ed), so it may not be an issue any more. Even if it is still an issue, there's still the other ways of avoiding it, like missioning in a non-hub, fitting for low scanability, making sure you get to the item first etc. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Lady Aja Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:27:00 - [18] i dont know if the op is a troll or not but... lol so funny
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:46:00 - [19] Still cant understand why it needs changed. Interfering with missions is part of the 'PvP always on' experience. Removing 'PvP always on' would kill EvE. Have you ever seen Natural born Killers? "Its what seperates 'us' from 'them', Wayne". When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
knentil	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:35:00 - [20] Just get a falcon alt or buddy in the same corp as you to sit cloaked in the mission with you. When they steal, perma jam their butt holes and warp disrupt them. Then ransom them or pop their ship. Common, its not that hard.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.20 17:02:00 - [21] Depending on what kind of mission objective it is, they may not turn red when they take it. ...in bed.
knentil	Posted - 2010.09.20 17:12:00 - [22] Well in general, most ninjas ive seen take other lewt.
Sethra Theyounger	Posted - 2010.09.21 16:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Sethra Theyounger on 21/09/2010 16:09:39 Edited by: Sethra Theyounger on 21/09/2010 16:07:19 If they took other loot and left the mission objective alone, so it doesn't stop the chain, then that'd be fine but when you get butt holes that only take the mission objective so you can't continue the chain, it's bullcrap that they get away with it. Also, if there's been 100's of reports like this one, then obviously I'm not the only one who thinks this needs to be changed. If they made seperate sockets for different types of play it'd solve the problems people have with different things in the game. For instance: missions\miners sockets & pvp\ninja sockets. That way people can do what they want in their different sockets without others complaining about what they do. Each socket would have it's own set of rules and regulations that you'd have to agree to when signing up for the game. If they had different sockets like stated above I'd be glad to move to it but as it stands right now they don't. I'm sure all the other that have wrote about this problem in the past (and are still playing) would also move and all the reports like this would stop and the developers could move on to other ways of improving the game instead of reading simular reports like this one all the time.
Death Geisha	Posted - 2010.09.21 16:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Sethra Theyounger If they made seperate sockets for different types of play it'd solve the problems people have with different things in the game. For instance: missions\miners sockets & pvp\ninja sockets. That way people can do what they want in their different sockets without others complaining about what they do. Each socket would have it's own set of rules and regulations that you'd have to agree to when signing up for the game. and maybe u can have ur your own little personal 'socket' to suck on, all for your self, so u can like run missions and fly in space all alone like a game of super mario now wouldn't that be cool
Sendraks The Spice Weasels Must Flow	Posted - 2010.09.21 16:31:00 - [25] Edited by: Sendraks on 21/09/2010 16:31:46 Originally by: Sethra Theyounger If they took other loot and left the mission objective alone, so it doesn't stop the chain, then that'd be fine but when you get butt holes that only take the mission objective so you can't continue the chain, it's bullcrap that they get away with it. You have the power within EvE to take action to avoid this happening to you. No game change is necessary. Originally by: Sethra Theyounger Also, if there's been 100's of reports like this one, then obviously I'm not the only one who thinks this needs to be changed. There have been 100s of suggestions like this and nothing has changed. That should give you some indication of what the Devs think about this suggestion. Originally by: Sethra Theyounger If they made seperate sockets for different types of play it'd solve the problems people have with different things in the game. You fundamentally do not understand EvE. If you want a game where you can play in happy isolation free from other players, choose another game. EvE is not for you. Originally by: Sethra Theyounger developers could move on to other ways of improving the game instead of reading simular reports like this one all the time. Trust me, the Devs are working on other ways of improving the game and they aren't worrying themselves with "reports" like these. You'll find the Devs think this aspect of EvE is working very much as intended.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.21 16:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Sethra Theyounger If they took other loot and left the mission objective alone, so it doesn't stop the chain, then that'd be fine Whether or not to fail the mission and "stop the chain" is your choice ù all you have to do to continue it is to buy the objective back from them. Quote: Also, if there's been 100's of reports like this one, then obviously I'm not the only one who thinks this needs to be changed. Not really, no. It's more obvious that there are more people than you who mistake EVE for a sharded/instanced game rather than the open universe it actually is. Quote: If they made seperate sockets for different types of play àit wouldn't solve anything, because there would no longer be any reason to run missions, nor would there really be much opportunity to do so. Quote: Each socket would have it's own set of rules and regulations that you'd have to agree to when signing up for the game. Already exists: if you don't want to play with the rules of EVE, you are entirely free to not agree with playing EVE. May I suggest the X series? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
The DRUDGE	Posted - 2010.09.21 16:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Sethra Theyounger Edited by: Sethra Theyounger on 21/09/2010 16:09:39 Edited by: Sethra Theyounger on 21/09/2010 16:07:19 If they took other loot and left the mission objective alone, so it doesn't stop the chain, then that'd be fine but when you get butt holes that only take the mission objective so you can't continue the chain, it's bullcrap that they get away with it. Also, if there's been 100's of reports like this one, then obviously I'm not the only one who thinks this needs to be changed. If they made seperate sockets for different types of play it'd solve the problems people have with different things in the game. For instance: missions\miners sockets & pvp\ninja sockets. That way people can do what they want in their different sockets without others complaining about what they do. Each socket would have it's own set of rules and regulations that you'd have to agree to when signing up for the game. If they had different sockets like stated above I'd be glad to move to it but as it stands right now they don't. I'm sure all the other that have wrote about this problem in the past (and are still playing) would also move and all the reports like this would stop and the developers could move on to other ways of improving the game instead of reading simular reports like this one all the time. I just LOL'D ....its the one thing about this game I hate....people who think they're entitled to everything, don't get me wrong, I'm for all types of gameplay (missions, industry, pvp, etc) and could care less if someone's a ninja/carebear/pvp'r...but the vast majority of hardcore missioners I run into seem to think they're entitled to everything under the sun whereas the miners/pirates/pvp'rs I run into are actually pretty cool peeps.
Solomar Espersei Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.09.21 17:20:00 - [28] OP, you are almost, almost worth the Locator fee to find you and steal even more of your mission OBJs. This is almost as funny as mission runners lecturing us about how "pointless" it is to steal Damsels (24-30mil) and Ship's Crew (around 20 mil). We're only griefing and those will never sell [chuckles]. Oh well, it's a thankless job, but since the NPC AI is so bad, we'll just keep on providing the challenge to your PVE content that would be otherwise missing. =) I had an interesting convo with a very bright mission runner last night about this same topic. He wasn't crazy about the idea of the Mission OBJ Race, but accepted it. He went on later to talk about clever methods that he employs to beat other PVE pilots to the juicy plexes and those lovely faction drops. I pointed out that, fucntionally, there's very little difference. Really, the race for the Mission OBJs is just about the same thing. PVP exists in this game at almost every level and in almost every worthwhile pursuit in New Eden. Embrace it, HTFU or GTFO. Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
Slimy Worm Cyan Wolf	Posted - 2010.09.21 20:12:00 - [29] TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL gb2wowkthxbai ---------------
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.09.22 01:05:00 - [30] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 22/09/2010 01:06:17 There's absolutely nothing you can do about it, it's free, forced standing loss for any griefer who feels like ****ting on you. Report them until CCP removes "mission specific loot". It's a goddamned stupid mechanic and needs to be changed. And that, in a nutshell, is my sig.

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