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[Proposal] A new form of cloaking

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mchief117	Posted - 2010.09.20 03:06:00 - [1] First this is not a nerf cloaking thread, far from it , currently cloaking is tricky, on one hand it makes you invincible. On the other the ships that use it best are paper thin and 1 module can destroy any cloaked ship. That said read below Currently cloaking is a its either on or off attribute, you see me or you donÆt, and once you see me I cant cloak so generally ôpopö. To this end I suggest a modification to both cloaking itself and the module. Cloaking becomes a strength check vs yes or no. Every cloaking device can produce X amount of field units per second with a ship requiring a certain amount of field strength to completely cloak. A ship is considered ôphasingö if its trying to cloak but not fully cloaked, a phasing ship is still lockable and can be shot at but doing so only deal 10% of normal damage as well as reduces the fields strength by X. This will open up the market for faction cloaking devices and multiple Meta levels each The second change comes in the form that cloaking devices are know script-able and you can have more than one fitted and active at a time -Slave script û forces the cloak to pull data from a none scripted cloaking device in essence becoming a passive module that increases the field strength the other cloak produces every second. -Gate script û causes a gate to partially misfire when you use a gate causing you to land between 50-100K away from the gate rather than in the gates 15K catch zone -Overdrive script û requires at least 1 scripted and 1 none scripted cloak both of the convert ops class to be installed, this script causes the ship to enter the cloaked state as soon as possible after gate/portal jump. In essence players land in system using there own cloak vs jump cloak. the module this script is loaded into is considered passive like the slave script This will have both pros and cons Pros -Any cov-op ship is no longer guarantied dead if he jumps and some on on the other side has a auto targeter -cloak users can be even more sneaky -cloak users can attempt to cloak even when target locked , and by installing more cloaks with the slave script they can win Cons -cloaking becomes more effective
count sporkula	Posted - 2010.09.20 03:54:00 - [2] i find your ideas quite intriguing. where may i sign up for your newsletter? can't say this is bad or good, but certainly interesting.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2010.09.20 04:47:00 - [3] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/09/2010 04:48:04 Let me get this straight. Your not wanting to nerf cloak. But now you've turned into some sort of shield/EWAR hybird module and made it 5 to 10 times more complicated than it really is. Did you really take the time to think about this or are you just trolling to be trolling? Yeah...figured as much. 5/10 Stealth Nerf Cloak Troll. Not Supported. Leave cloaks the #### alone people... your worse than a bloody 3 year old crying for his woobie. PS: Is it just me or does he come across as someone who really doesn't know how Cloaks work? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Jita Bloodtear	Posted - 2010.09.20 05:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/09/2010 04:48:04 Let me get this straight. Your not wanting to nerf cloak. But now you've turned into some sort of shield/EWAR hybird module and made it 5 to 10 times more complicated than it really is. Did you really take the time to think about this or are you just trolling to be trolling? Yeah...figured as much. 5/10 Stealth Nerf Cloak Troll. Not Supported. Leave cloaks the #### alone people... your worse than a bloody 3 year old crying for his woobie. PS: Is it just me or does he come across as someone who really doesn't know how Cloaks work? It'd be a real tragedy if we worked together in a civilized discussion without resorting to name calling and insults. I just don't know if I could handle it --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System
Lykouleon Trust Doesn't Rust	Posted - 2010.09.20 05:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Jita Bloodtear It'd be a real tragedy if we worked together in a civilized discussion without resorting to name calling and insults. I just don't know if I could handle it ~umad? And keep this stuff in F&I for petes sake Originally by: Drake Draconis Leave cloaks the #### alone people... your worse than a bloody 3 year old crying for his woobie. Quote: Aedun Sole > flying with lyk is like flying a bus filled with 5 year old children
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2010.09.20 06:08:00 - [6] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/09/2010 06:10:01 Originally by: Jita Bloodtear It'd be a real tragedy if we worked together in a civilized discussion without resorting to name calling and insults. I just don't know if I could handle it The biggest tragedy is people do not read there ####ing history. Go read the last 5 to 10 pages of this forum board and come back here and tell me I'm wrong about cloaking. This topic has been literally beaten to a pulp and each and every single time its shot down in a glory of flames. You want civilized? Starts with you. Don't expect me or anyone else to be all "civilized" when you refuse to read up on your subject matter before you make stupid ideas like this for the 1000th time. I don't care how ingenious or clever you make it... you can paint a horse to look like a donkey... or a mule.... its still a damn horse. Now don't get me wrong.... I keep an open mind... but this topic has exhaustively been discussed and I KNOW allllll about the pros and cons of cloaking as a cloaker myself and a victim of cloaking as well. Trust me... this idea... just like the rest of them... is full of fail. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
mchief117	Posted - 2010.09.20 06:32:00 - [7] Edited by: mchief117 on 20/09/2010 06:32:48 Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/09/2010 06:10:01 Originally by: Jita Bloodtear It'd be a real tragedy if we worked together in a civilized discussion without resorting to name calling and insults. I just don't know if I could handle it The biggest tragedy is people do not read there ####ing history. Go read the last 5 to 10 pages of this forum board and come back here and tell me I'm wrong about cloaking. This topic has been literally beaten to a pulp and each and every single time its shot down in a glory of flames. You want civilized? Starts with you. Don't expect me or anyone else to be all "civilized" when you refuse to read up on your subject matter before you make stupid ideas like this for the 1000th time. I don't care how ingenious or clever you make it... you can paint a horse to look like a donkey... or a mule.... its still a damn horse. Now don't get me wrong.... I keep an open mind... but this topic has exhaustively been discussed and I KNOW allllll about the pros and cons of cloaking as a cloaker myself and a victim of cloaking as well. Trust me... this idea... just like the rest of them... is full of fail. Ok ill take that and rase you one i know there are and ungodly amount of posts related to cloaking , and i know that 95% of them are about " i cant find that cloaky in my system" to which i point out that nothing in my OP in any ways does this. secondly the search engine for the eve forums lacks considerably you ever try using it. lastly why don't you calm down and read over my OP again with a clear head. you might find you like it, if you dont take it apart and explain why , the whole " your idea sucks leave things alown" argument does not show well for your side. as an example explain why having a Cov-op ship landing in system with its own cloak on or that a stealth bomber can try and cloak while locked by hostiles is in any way a NERF to cloaking.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2010.09.20 07:53:00 - [8] Originally by: mchief117 Ok ill take that and rase you one i know there are and ungodly amount of posts related to cloaking , and i know that 95% of them are about " i cant find that cloaky in my system" to which i point out that nothing in my OP in any ways does this. secondly the search engine for the eve forums lacks considerably you ever try using it. lastly why don't you calm down and read over my OP again with a clear head. you might find you like it, if you dont take it apart and explain why , the whole " your idea sucks leave things alown" argument does not show well for your side. as an example explain why having a Cov-op ship landing in system with its own cloak on or that a stealth bomber can try and cloak while locked by hostiles is in any way a NERF to cloaking. Nice try... I don't do homework for free. You expect me to tell you every single little detail just because you refuse to get up off your lazy noob butt and do the research yourself? I can see 2 things very clearly here. 1: You don't know anything about cloaking as you claim to. 2: You don't know the majority of the public opinion over cloaking as its been for as long as I've played this game. The alone condemns you and your miserable attempt at a troll. You've clearly made your mind up and I'm not about to argue with someone who trolls in stealth mode. The Cloaking Device is very easy to figure out... and you fail to see it as it is. 1: It's ability to completely make you invisible comes at a price: A: All of your ships modules are disabled and rendered inert for the duration of the cloak. B: You move at an penalized speed (not taking bonuses into account). C: You can't target quickly when you drop the cloak. D: IF someone locks you before you cloak... the cloak is blocked. 2: Covert Ops Class Ships can warp while cloaked. All others can't use warp drive. 3: Cloaked ships as stated before are completely unable to do anything but sit there and watch. A: They do show up in local... but that's only if its in KS (Known Space). B: Covert Ops Cloaks are very tasking on CPU load... so any ship that fits one has to make room for it. C: Most Covert Ops Cloak ships (if not all) generally are not that great of a combat ship unless its a very special niche (IE: Stealth Bomber), and even then they typically do better in packs and not 1vs1 unless the pilot is very clever and typically they seek soft targets. 4: Cloaking is harmless unless - A: You get into the targets mind by making them utterly paranoid and just sit there. B: You fail to watch your six and don't have a wing-mate to keep you clear of pests. C: You fail to remember the most important rule in EVE Online... NEVER...STOP...MOVING. 5: Cloakers in a PVP Context - A: Typically are not what you call a solo wtfpwnmobile. They have to roll the dice on timing and their prey... and usually they only get the first kill... second and thirds are rare and only happen when your surrounded by idiots (obviously not the cloak-er in question) B: Cloaking devices fail whenever they encounter an physical object within or at 2500 meters. This means that if they bump into anything at all... including a beacon... they are exposed.... drones... gate guns... etc. C: Cloaking devices are not immune to damage... this means if someone uses an area effect weapon you WILL take damage. Smart Bombs and Space Bombs are very deadly. Even though you may not be revealed... your going to take it in the shorts. (Been there done that) Cloaking devices have one purpose in mind.... stealth... thats it. To take it any further than that... is a total and complete waste of time. It's not supposed to be a I-Win button... its not supposed to be made "more effective". It's not supposed to be something that expires... its just a simple on/off switch with a set of rules. Rules that can easily be used to come up with very effective counter-strategies. EVE Online is a game of risk... not of easy wins. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================

CCP Jericho	Posted - 2010.09.20 10:41:00 - [9] Inappropriate contents removed. Please stay on topic and discuss the contents of the OP.

Aphrodite Skripalle Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.20 11:15:00 - [10] /not supported We already have different types of semi cloak. Thats the small signature fitted unscannable ship. With the right eccm fitted ship you are also "cloaked", so i dont see any need for more cloaking types. But you have nice ideas and in fact they are interesting. But there is so much more important work to do then changing the way of cloaking, ccp shouldnt focus on that, imho.
Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.20 13:08:00 - [11] I think a better way to deal with AFK cloakers would be to start with a base chance of 100% immunity to scan decay over time that the ship stays in the system without dropping the cloak. Decay rate: 15 minutes of 100% immunity to scan, then after that your chance to be scan increases by 10% every 5 minutes to the point that after sitting in a system without leaving it or deactivating and reactivating cloak you become visible at 1:05. This way would still make scouting possible, as would the use of cloaks for what they were intended for. In fact, sitting cloaked in local to "grief" the local population would still be possible (since to reset the timer all you have to do is decloak and recloak) but it would require you to be AT THE KEYBOARD, because after 30 minutes or so you are likely going to be able to be probed out and killed. My problem isn't cloaking, it's that people are being rewarded for doing something that takes no effort, has no risk, and that they don't even have to be at the keyboard to do.
AndPeroxide	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:41:00 - [12] Supported IF cloakers cant carry regular cyno- BUT gain +10% cloak ammount if carrying Covert Cyno
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.09.20 16:54:00 - [13] Originally by: mchief117 First this is not a nerf cloaking thread, far from it , currently cloaking is tricky, on one hand it makes you invincible. On the other the ships that use it best are paper thin and 1 module can destroy any cloaked ship. That said read below Currently cloaking is a its either on or off attribute, you see me or you donÆt, and once you see me I cant cloak so generally ôpopö. To this end I suggest a modification to both cloaking itself and the module. Cloaking becomes a strength check vs yes or no. Every cloaking device can produce X amount of field units per second with a ship requiring a certain amount of field strength to completely cloak. A ship is considered ôphasingö if its trying to cloak but not fully cloaked, a phasing ship is still lockable and can be shot at but doing so only deal 10% of normal damage as well as reduces the fields strength by X. This will open up the market for faction cloaking devices and multiple Meta levels each The second change comes in the form that cloaking devices are know script-able and you can have more than one fitted and active at a time -Slave script û forces the cloak to pull data from a none scripted cloaking device in essence becoming a passive module that increases the field strength the other cloak produces every second. -Gate script û causes a gate to partially misfire when you use a gate causing you to land between 50-100K away from the gate rather than in the gates 15K catch zone -Overdrive script û requires at least 1 scripted and 1 none scripted cloak both of the convert ops class to be installed, this script causes the ship to enter the cloaked state as soon as possible after gate/portal jump. In essence players land in system using there own cloak vs jump cloak. the module this script is loaded into is considered passive like the slave script This will have both pros and cons Pros -Any cov-op ship is no longer guarantied dead if he jumps and some on on the other side has a auto targeter -cloak users can be even more sneaky -cloak users can attempt to cloak even when target locked , and by installing more cloaks with the slave script they can win Cons -cloaking becomes more effective Incorrect. Not supported. You should just request a new module that phases ships to do what you essentially want and leave cloaks alone, they work as intended. The idea of fitting multiple cloaks makes no sense to me, there are few ships with a slot for a dedicated cloaking device the others are all weakened by the presence, adding a 2nd compounds the issue for a 'cloak' that might not even be complete. A phase shifter that has less requirements than a cloak and might even be a mid slot fit or low is a better option for your 'semi-cloak' state that can be decloaked via weapons fire, etc might actually fill a 'need' where a cloak won't. -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members.
CommanderData211	Posted - 2010.09.20 22:23:00 - [14] I have seen a lot of cloaking threads and this one is kind of neat. It doesn't really address the pros and cons of cloaking itself, but they are cool ideas. Why don't we just request that they require fuel to activate. Possibly make it one of the racial isotopes. Timers on it would have to be worked out and honestly I don't even want to try, but it shouldn't be nerfed ridiculously. Cloaking should just be a bit more dynamic.
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.21 15:49:00 - [15] Needlessly complex, and making cloakers completely immune to gate camps is a terrible mechanic. Not supported. === "The data does not support that polished quality sells better than new features" "Once Incarna and Dust are fully implemented, focus will probably shift far more towards improvement" CCP, FTW?

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