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CaptainFalcon07
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
16
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Armor, Shield, and Skirmish have a wide application in eve. (mining is not combat related, does not count)
Information is limited to only a small variety of ships in comparison to the other warfare links.
Look at the market, all other mindlinks are 90+ million each, while the information warfare mindlink is a paltry 9 million.
Information warfare is very limited in use and does not give a stronger bonus compared to other warfare links despite how limiting in what it can do.
I believe Information warfare should be replace by Capacitor or Weaponry warfare links.
Now moving on from that, lets look at the one of the most terrible and least flown ship in the game the Eos (Lololos in my opinion)
Not only is this ship stuck with the laughable Information Warfare, the ship's bonus and philosophy itself is laughable.
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: +15 m3 extra Drone Bay space and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level.
Its a FLEET COMMAND ship that has the bonus to the worst tanking in the game known as Active Armor tanking. Active Armor tanking is awful because of the low dps tank and the fact that it repairs at the END of the cycle.
Then it wastes 2 damage bonuses that makes it hardly better than the thorax in terms of dps. If you fit a command ship for boosting and tank, damage dealing takes a complete backseat.
With bonuses like these, it makes no sense why this ship would be boosting information, the typical users of these are cloaky and mobile recon ships. The Eos is useless as it cannot follow the a black ops bridge, move fast and cloaked like these ships.
The whole entire thing is a complete abysmal failure in my personal view. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1684
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have you ever flown in a recon or EAF gang with Eos/Proteus support?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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CaptainFalcon07
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
16
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Have you ever flown in a recon or EAF gang with Eos/Proteus support?
-Liang
Have you tried flying the Eos with a recon gang while traveling through hostile space? |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1684
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
That's what the Proteus is for... derp.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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CaptainFalcon07
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
16
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:That's what the Proteus is for... derp.
-Liang
But we're not talking about the Proteus here my friend, we're talking about the EOS. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1684
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's not that I don't feel you over how bad the Eos is, or even how bad Fleet Commands as a whole are. But seriously, you lead the rant with how bad info links are - and you're just wrong.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
CaptainFalcon07 wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:That's what the Proteus is for... derp.
-Liang But we're not talking about the Proteus here my friend, we're talking about the EOS. Well to be fair you're complaining about both the Eos and the info war links.
I won't comment on the Eos, but the info war link that boosts e-war strength is solid. You can reach 100% jam chance on anything t1 BC and below with recon 5 and a max info war booster. (In before "because of falcon")
I do think that the e-war range link and sensor strength links suck though. I wouldn't mind seeing something better for the other two. It's backwards considering racial titan bonuses but the other two links could be capacitor amount and recharge time.
Really they should just make gallente armor and amarr gets cap recharge/neut range or something. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1685
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
I dunno, I really like the idea behind info links and I'd hate to lose some of the core functionality. The sensor strength link is one of my favorite links - have you seen what it does to a Recon 4 / Dispersion 4 pilot's chance to jam you? Have you seen what it does when you actually create an anti-falcon ship? 
That said, I wouldn't mind some changes to info links that increased the strength on point/scrams (Anti-WCS), increased Nos/Neut amount, and increased web amount.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Noisrevbus
174
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Posted - 2012.07.31 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
CaptainFalcon07 wrote: Have you tried flying the Eos with a recon gang while traveling through hostile space?
I have, what's your point?
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Lili Lu
321
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Posted - 2012.07.31 23:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
I find it ironic that the ewar boost link is best applied to ecm. Tells you a lot about ewar.
Regardless, I would think that that one link should be switched out to a tracking, or some kind of drone link.
As for the Eos itself. Yeah, since ccp decided to introduce ancilliary armor repairers the armor repair bonus is awesome. That thing can active tank on par with any buffer damnation or vulture. You will see them everywhere now that the AAR is in-game.  |

Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
120
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 09:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Basically, the issue here is the same as the issue with the Claymore, fleet command ships with Active Tank bonuses are 99% ********.
All FLEET (NOTE; NOT FIELD) command ships should have a resists bonus, the Field Commands are fine as is. |

Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.08.01 10:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think itGÇÖs a better combat ship than people give it credit for. ItGÇÖs a T2 brutix not a T2 Myrm. Think of it as losing a few turrets and gaining a few drones to create spare highs for warfare links.
I would like the rep bonus to be 10% like the Incurses and Proteus.
Info war could use a bit more flexibility; it feels very useful in specific situations and not much else.
I would perhaps like the links to boost positive modules, at the moment it affects tracking disrupters, ECM, Sensor Damps etc. It could be changed to boost tracking comps/links, ECCM, sensor boosters etc. I think this would boost its versatility.
I do hate the drone bay bonus just give it the drone bay and give it something useful.
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Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
120
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 11:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:I think itGÇÖs a better combat ship than people give it credit for. ItGÇÖs a T2 brutix not a T2 Myrm. Think of it as losing a few turrets and gaining a few drones to create spare highs for warfare links.
I would like the rep bonus to be 10% like the Incurses and Proteus.
Info war could use a bit more flexibility; it feels very useful in specific situations and not much else.
I would perhaps like the links to boost positive modules, at the moment it affects tracking disrupters, ECM, Sensor Damps etc. It could be changed to boost tracking comps/links, ECCM, sensor boosters etc. I think this would boost its versatility.
I do hate the drone bay bonus just give it the drone bay and give it something useful.
Sir, that would be the Astarte, the Eos is a fleet command ship, it has 2 purposes in life, giving bonuses and tanking.
As such its Rep bonus is terrible for its role. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1715
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 16:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote: Sir, that would be the Astarte, the Eos is a fleet command ship, it has 2 purposes in life, giving bonuses and tanking.
As such its Rep bonus is terrible for its role.
I really like rep bonuses on blaster ships, because rep bonuses actually work in the same engagement types that blasters do - small gangs.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Denuo Secus
58
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Posted - 2012.08.01 17:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I really like rep bonuses on blaster ships, because rep bonuses actually work in the same engagement types that blasters do - small gangs.
-Liang
Would you say this kind of active tank is viable even if armor rep rigs would be replaced by damage rigs? To avoid speed loss. In exchange more armor resist mods in the low slots...and maybe a 800mm plate to get some buffer. Tho I think pure resist and even better rep could be nice in small scale PvP. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1716
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 17:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I really like rep bonuses on blaster ships, because rep bonuses actually work in the same engagement types that blasters do - small gangs.
-Liang Would you say this kind of active tank is usable if armor rep rigs would be replaced by damage rigs? To avoid speed loss. In exchange more armor resist mods in the low slots...and maybe a 800mm plate to get some buffer. Tho I think pure resist and even better rep could be nice in small scale PvP.
I...l don't know. I don't think so. DPS is generally so high that a meaningful active tank really requires a huge slot investment. I wouldn't say that any active armor tank is really viable without dedicating 4-5 lows (2 rep, DC, 1-2 EANM), 3 rigs, and at least 1 mid (cap booster).
I guess you could try the Plate/Rep approach but I haven't found that terribly viable except for repping up after a fight.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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PinkKnife
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
182
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
How to fix information warfare:
Replace targeting range bonus with signature analysis bonus.
Done. All ships in fleet get 10% reduction to signature at level V of information warfare. (currently get 10% bonus to targetting range...yippeee)
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1722
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Umm.. I'm sure you mean they'd get a 10% higher scan res? 10% reduction to signature is evasive maneuvers.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
43
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Umm.. I'm sure you mean they'd get a 10% higher scan res? 10% reduction to signature is evasive maneuvers.
-Liang
As far as I can remember, scan resolution bonus is leadership itself, information warfare bonus is targetting range.
|

Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
428
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 22:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Everyone knows the EOS is ****, this isnt news, move on. |

Ares Desideratus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.03 01:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Everyone knows the EOS is ****, this isnt news, move on. Well maybe he'll move on when they fix it, sasshole. |

Songbird
59
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Posted - 2012.08.03 02:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Would you use proteus booster or loki booster for small gang?
If you're so afraid of ecm put a remote eccm - 120% bonus to sensor strength if I'm not mistaken - I think PL vs Hun reloaded match showed how effective that is.
If you want me to use gallente booster maybe I should have bonus to optimal and falloff and tracking. Gallentians can use some extra range. |

Je720
Mentally Unstable Enterprises Drunk 'n' Disorderly
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
I would like to see the Eos turned into a T2 Myrm in the same way the Nighthawk is like a T2 drake. But I like the idea of having the Eos giving gunnery bonuses; falloff, tracking and optimal but not damage (think tier 3 BC scaling ). |

Je720
Mentally Unstable Enterprises Drunk 'n' Disorderly
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Information warfare should be buffed but that is not the issue with command ships. I think that choosing your command ship restricts you too much in what links you get a bonus too. With 3 links per type you do not really get much choice, you take the good with the bad with all races. All the command ships should be more flexible with the links that they receive bonuses from so that it does not matter so much which race's CS you pick as too which links you choose.
So for example you could give each race 3 link groups that they can choose links from, some over lapping with other races, which they will receive improved bonuses from the CS skill:
Amarr
- Armour
- Gunnery
- Capacitor
Caldari
- Shields
- Missiles
- Information Warfare
Gallente
- Information Warfare
- Gunnery
- Armour
Minmatar
- Skirmish Warfare
- Gunnery
- Shields
|

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1768
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Songbird wrote:Would you use proteus booster or loki booster for small gang?
If you're so afraid of ecm put a remote eccm - 120% bonus to sensor strength if I'm not mistaken - I think PL vs Hun reloaded match showed how effective that is.
If you want me to use gallente booster maybe I should have bonus to optimal and falloff and tracking. Gallentians can use some extra range.
The effect of that would be Proteus powered Zealot/Legion gangs.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1768
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Je720 wrote:Edit: The sensor strength link is good in theory, why is not used? Does this need a buff?
I use it.
-Liang
Ed: Pretty sure I have a jump clone with an info mindlink too. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
111
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 07:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:I do think that the e-war range link and sensor strength links suck though Sensor Integrity owns. Stick it on a 4-link Damnation. |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 12:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Je720 wrote:Amarr
- Armour
- Gunnery
- Capacitor
Caldari
- Shields
- Missiles
- Information Warfare
Gallente
- Information Warfare
- Gunnery
- Armour
Minmatar
- Skirmish Warfare
- Gunnery
- Shields
This list makes sense, but there's a problem with racial distribution of those links. In this one Gallente don't have unique links (thus there's a chance that we won't see this approach fixing Eos problems) and there's too much gunnery. Maybe you'll want to replace it with something for drones ("unmanned warfare"? lol). Also I'd give a cap warfare group more fluff-based name ("attrition warfare"? I'm bad with making up names).
Although you'd note that those are huge changes in the leadership department (especially weapon links) with all the consequences it'll be associated with.
On a side note, IIRC CCP wanted to change boosting mech a bit (no OGB), so maybe we'll see some changes to fleet command ships in the future (like, making them better at doing something on the field).
Consider this to be just a personal remark as I'm not in a position to judge about real problems with Eos or IW links. |

Songbird
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 21:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
legion gang would be sweet, still beaten by tengu gang though me thinks. Gunnery needs a helping hand and if gallente command ships are to be used they have to have good links. If I had to choose bonus to tracking or bonus to speed and tackling range I still am not sure I won't stick with minmatar one anyway. As it is right now I've literally not seen anyone using info links. Anyway - it's not totally broken I doubt it will ever be changed...I'm sure next gen eve players will still be able to see an Eos in some grizzled old veteran's personal museum/ hangar, it's not like they'll totally stop making the ship . |

Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
CaptainFalcon07 wrote:(mining is not combat related, does not count)
You must not be a peeveepee'er, since they CLAIM LOUDLY that killing miners *is* PVP. (See the numerous whining threads from hi sec gankers for proof of this).
So, are YOU wrong, or are THEY wrong? |

Je720
Mentally Unstable Enterprises Drunk 'n' Disorderly
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Je720 wrote:Amarr
- Armour
- Gunnery
- Capacitor
Caldari
- Shields
- Missiles
- Information Warfare
Gallente
- Information Warfare
- Gunnery
- Armour
Minmatar
- Skirmish Warfare
- Gunnery
- Shields
This list makes sense, but there's a problem with racial distribution of those links. In this one Gallente don't have unique links (thus there's a chance that we won't see this approach fixing Eos problems) and there's too much gunnery. Maybe you'll want to replace it with something for drones ("unmanned warfare"? lol). Also I'd give a cap warfare group more fluff-based name ("attrition warfare"? I'm bad with making up names). Although you'd note that those are huge changes in the leadership department (especially weapon links) with all the consequences it'll be associated with. On a side note, IIRC CCP wanted to change boosting mech a bit (no OGB), so maybe we'll see some changes to fleet command ships in the future (like, making them better at doing something on the field). Consider this to be just a personal remark as I'm not in a position to judge about real problems with Eos or IW links. Drones are not really used in large fleets so a command ship bonus for dones in their current state would not really be used. If Gallente can't have gunnery however, I would rather have Skirmish Warfare (speed/agility) to get in range with blasters.
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