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Passive armour regeneration

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Marak Mocam	Posted - 2010.09.24 23:21:00 - [31] I fly Gallente armor tank fitted ships all the time too. I've flown shield tanked and the different benefits/detriments of each add value to the game that this could cause issues with. Passive armor regen could cause a lot of issues and would change tactical thinking of post-combat situations. You think it would help armor tankers but try shield tanks that now also regenerate armor damage for free. "I need repairs, where's a station?" versus "I need repairs, we'll wait". If it's post combat regen then perhaps just request extending what repair paste can be used on to include armor and hull damage. That shouldn't annoy anyone really -- the stuff is expensive enough as cargo/costs wise but there are situations a player might be willing to expend it when they don't/won't have access to a station for a while (wormholes, nullsec... whatever). That would increase the value/versatility of paste but not in a way that would grant repairs for free to those that cannot repair that type of damage.
Otocinclus Minmatar Project Nemesis The 0rphanage	Posted - 2010.09.24 23:39:00 - [32] WTB armor power relays, armor rechargers, and core defense armor purgers
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.24 23:55:00 - [33] "I need repairs, where's a station?" versus "I need repairs, we'll wait". Yeh.. that's the point.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.25 00:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Luthair StoneDog "I need repairs, where's a station?" versus "I need repairs, we'll wait". Yeh.. that's the point. shakes head this is an MMO. multi player. team play. "I need repairs, does anyone have a remote rep or some armor bots?" prepared people will always be better at this game.
SGT FUNYOUN Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.25 14:43:00 - [35] Buy a Damage Control 2; Fit Astronautics rigs; fly faster. Nuff said. Yargh. I be SGT Funyoun. King of the Pirates!!!
Reicine Ceer	Posted - 2010.09.25 16:40:00 - [36] As all is said and done, with this suggestion (whether instant recharge or delayed via combat action), there would then be no point in differing between shields and armour; again, the SOE 'lets just mash everything together to make it as simple, child-like and brain-deadening as WoW' course of action. And the 5hp/sec taking 'years' was quite clearly a comedic exaggeration to further my stance that there's just no point! "Grammatically, the word 'nothing' is a noun, which suggests that it refers to something." - Wikipedia
Invictra Atreides Caldari Ninja's Anonymous	Posted - 2010.09.27 11:56:00 - [37] Edited by: Invictra Atreides on 27/09/2010 11:57:30 OMG ppl read the whole post .... He is only saying to have passive regeneration of armors and no mods or modules that boost that To have 5 armor/s = 3600 Armor in 1h Are ppl rly thinking that 3600 Armor makes a difference on a BS ? We all know that passive shields are useless without mods/modules to boost them. I give a +1 to the idea. Lets have the armor regen but without the modules/mods to boost those!
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.27 18:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Invictra Atreides Edited by: Invictra Atreides on 27/09/2010 11:57:30 OMG ppl read the whole post .... He is only saying to have passive regeneration of armors and no mods or modules that boost that To have 5 armor/s = 3600 Armor in 1h Are ppl rly thinking that 3600 Armor makes a difference on a BS ? We all know that passive shields are useless without mods/modules to boost them. I give a +1 to the idea. Lets have the armor regen but without the modules/mods to boost those! Somebody read it? Hehe, thanks for the support. Though 5 armour hp per second regeneration in an hour is 18000, but you are completely correct, without mods to boost it, it would be useless in a battle situation... it is simply an idea to allow armoured ships a bit more longevity for 'the next fight'.
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.09.27 18:33:00 - [39] When I see Shield RR gangs running around more than I see Armor RR gangs, Then I will agree with the OP that armor needs to be looked at. Shield Vs Armor is not balanced right now but it is close, who wants a RR 'Baddon gang with slaves and 400k effective HP's with passive armor regain? Sounds fun and totally overpowered
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.27 19:33:00 - [40] Originally by: Meeko Atari When I see Shield RR gangs running around more than I see Armor RR gangs, Then I will agree with the OP that armor needs to be looked at. Shield Vs Armor is not balanced right now but it is close, who wants a RR 'Baddon gang with slaves and 400k effective HP's with passive armor regain? Sounds fun and totally overpowered Also not what was proposed.

Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.09.27 20:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Originally by: Meeko Atari When I see Shield RR gangs running around more than I see Armor RR gangs, Then I will agree with the OP that armor needs to be looked at. Shield Vs Armor is not balanced right now but it is close, who wants a RR 'Baddon gang with slaves and 400k effective HP's with passive armor regain? Sounds fun and totally overpowered Also not what was proposed. I read it. Just call it what it is... passive armor regain, the same thing as passive shield regain but in YOUR scenario it will only help after a fight no modules to amplify it...right? How is this any different from the only real advantage shields have over armor? (minus the fail fit passive shield drake and Myrm) You want to repair armor in space, there is a module for that, you don't want to fit that module, there are drones for that, you don't want to carry armor rep drones, get some RR buddies.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.27 21:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Meeko Atari Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Originally by: Meeko Atari When I see Shield RR gangs running around more than I see Armor RR gangs, Then I will agree with the OP that armor needs to be looked at. Shield Vs Armor is not balanced right now but it is close, who wants a RR 'Baddon gang with slaves and 400k effective HP's with passive armor regain? Sounds fun and totally overpowered Also not what was proposed. I read it. Just call it what it is... passive armor regain, the same thing as passive shield regain but in YOUR scenario it will only help after a fight no modules to amplify it...right? How is this any different from the only real advantage shields have over armor? (minus the fail fit passive shield drake and Myrm) You want to repair armor in space, there is a module for that, you don't want to fit that module, there are drones for that, you don't want to carry armor rep drones, get some RR buddies. Haha, the only real advantage of shields over armour is passive regeneration? You want me to dignify that with a response? Yes, in my scenario, the passive regeneration of armour would only have a real impact after a fight. Of course there are drones, modules and RR buddies to be had to heal your armour. There are similar methods of shield restoration, and yet you have a passive regeneration rate as well. The fact is, any plate armoured ship cut off from friends in hostile territory after a fight is in trouble. Shielded ships, much less so, because after a reasonably short while, they have their hitpoints back. If you actually look at any of the numbers that have been discussed in the thread, you'd see that over the timescale of a battle, the proposed regeneration rate would mean practically nothing (as ships could wait up to two hours for the restoration of all their armour HP).
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.27 21:53:00 - [43] Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Haha, the only real advantage of shields over armour is passive regeneration? You want me to dignify that with a response? Yes, in my scenario, the passive regeneration of armour would only have a real impact after a fight. Of course there are drones, modules and RR buddies to be had to heal your armour. There are similar methods of shield restoration, and yet you have a passive regeneration rate as well. The fact is, any plate armoured ship cut off from friends in hostile territory after a fight is in trouble. Shielded ships, much less so, because after a reasonably short while, they have their hitpoints back. If you actually look at any of the numbers that have been discussed in the thread, you'd see that over the timescale of a battle, the proposed regeneration rate would mean practically nothing (as ships could wait up to two hours for the restoration of all their armour HP). and you still ignore that armor tanks get higher base resists. we really dont need to make armor and shield tank the same. if you want passive recharge, fit shield tanks and live with our downsides. you cant have both.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.27 22:02:00 - [44] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Haha, the only real advantage of shields over armour is passive regeneration? You want me to dignify that with a response? Yes, in my scenario, the passive regeneration of armour would only have a real impact after a fight. Of course there are drones, modules and RR buddies to be had to heal your armour. There are similar methods of shield restoration, and yet you have a passive regeneration rate as well. The fact is, any plate armoured ship cut off from friends in hostile territory after a fight is in trouble. Shielded ships, much less so, because after a reasonably short while, they have their hitpoints back. If you actually look at any of the numbers that have been discussed in the thread, you'd see that over the timescale of a battle, the proposed regeneration rate would mean practically nothing (as ships could wait up to two hours for the restoration of all their armour HP). and you still ignore that armor tanks get higher base resists. we really dont need to make armor and shield tank the same. if you want passive recharge, fit shield tanks and live with our downsides. you cant have both. I'm not ignoring that armour gets a higher base resist. Are you ignoring that any means to boost your armour HP makes your spaceship slower? If you want to talk about random buffs and nerfs that apply to each type of not dying when people shoot you, that's fine, it still doesn't have any particular impact. As I've said multiple times, I don't want armour and shields to be the same. I want my armour to regenerate slowly after it's been damaged. I am not even asking for armour to regenerate at the same rate as shields... I just want it to do it.
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.09.27 22:38:00 - [45] I just want it to do it. I think i found your problem, you want something to work the way YOU want it to. Shields Vs. Armor is not broken, live with your choice.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.27 22:48:00 - [46] Originally by: Meeko Atari I just want it to do it. I think i found your problem, you want something to work the way YOU want it to. rofl. For the reasons supplied, yes I do. You're failing quite marvellously to get past the fact that I'm not asking for anything you think I'm asking for.
Rahnim	Posted - 2010.09.27 23:03:00 - [47] i support a small passive armor regen, (anything below those 5 armor HP / sec after combat has been over for more than 5 mins.) It wouldnt make armor tankers overpowered in any way vs shield tankers, specially since it only should do it out of combat.
Zero Income	Posted - 2010.09.27 23:05:00 - [48] Show me a shield tanking commandship that can have 500k+ effective hp and i will fully support this. (btw the passive armor tanking command ship that can do this is one of the amarr ones fully buffed)
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.09.27 23:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Originally by: Meeko Atari I just want it to do it. I think i found your problem, you want something to work the way YOU want it to. rofl. For the reasons supplied, yes I do. You're failing quite marvellously to get past the fact that I'm not asking for anything you think I'm asking for. Do you not want "Passive Armor Regain" ( just like the title of your post ) If so... You have not made a great argument about why armor tanks need this feature besides " I want it to " And in case you didn't notice, shields regain on armor tanks as well
Zan Shiro	Posted - 2010.09.27 23:23:00 - [50] is it that hard to find a logi for your roams....or to take away some dps and pack a remote repper or repair drones? Spider repping....its not just for CA's and plexes lol. Should be happy you have it....shield transfer is broken in comparison. Yes shields can regen....you have to live for that to happen though. Shields go down...most shield tankers are pretty much done since armor and structure is weak as hell.

Rahnim	Posted - 2010.09.28 00:01:00 - [51] the reasoning for this would be for solo pvp, in long time deployment with your armor buffered fit. so you could regen armor slowly over several hours. without having to fly all the way to high sec again.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.09.28 00:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Rahnim the reasoning for this would be for solo pvp, in long time deployment with your armor buffered fit. so you could regen armor slowly over several hours. without having to fly all the way to high sec again. maybe it should hint you that a pure passive armor tank is not a good idea for solo pvp? nobody with a bit of brain would expect that armor buffer tanks would work on long term roams.
Zan Shiro	Posted - 2010.09.28 00:49:00 - [53] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Rahnim the reasoning for this would be for solo pvp, in long time deployment with your armor buffered fit. so you could regen armor slowly over several hours. without having to fly all the way to high sec again. maybe it should hint you that a pure passive armor tank is not a good idea for solo pvp? nobody with a bit of brain would expect that armor buffer tanks would work on long term roams. its just easier to recode the game But +1, solo pvp, active tank if roaming far from a station. Minny ships great for this, highly recommend them. Projectiles don't use cap (more juice for the repper/booster depending on ship). Speed tank nice since only thing better than a good tank to take a hit...is to move fast enough to not get hit as hard. Neut in highs not too bad an idea if you happen to like up close and personal with AC's.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.09.28 06:25:00 - [54] Edited by: AstarothPrime on 28/09/2010 06:26:19 Originally by: Luthair StoneDog The idea was to allow ships to regenerate their armour after a fight. Agreed -> I would vote for passive regeneration while in station. Let it be dependent on the armor repairer fitted to the ship, but with some kind of nasty bonus (such as 5x repair rate). For example -> if you fit 50 dps armor rep, you would heal 250 dmg / sec while docked up in station. I just hate going into armor on my drake. I usually fly it with nasty red gauge for days before I fit some kind of repper and decide to repair it. And paying ~3M ISK to rep the armor in station is like . I can only imagine the dull job of repairing on high buffer armor tanked ships. I.
Viribus Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.09.28 07:39:00 - [55] The idea isn't to make everything "the same". Shields and armor still differ in important ways, like what is penalized by the tank (sig/mobility), what is sacrificed for the tank in terms of fitting (CPU/grid, and tackle/damage) both would have their own advantages and disadvantages except one point: - Shield buffers are ubiquitous in solo and small gang pvp due to not needing any outside support to maintain This hugely limits the fits that are "acceptable" for that kind of PVP and in turn hurts variation in combat. Hey, isn't that what everyone's whining will be lost if armor regens over time? With an armor buffer after a fight where you can't dock-up you have to wait on grid while some vexor's 5 small repair drones or someone's SAR slowly repairs you. A drake or cerb or vaga can go on with the roam after a fight but as soon as the corp pariah brings along an armor tank everyone has to sit around on grid for five minutes while the idiot who took a 1600mm Myrmidon on a roam gets repped up at the cost of his fleetmate's drone space and high slots. If CCP made it so armor began regenerating similar to shields but only ten minutes after it last took damage the function of armor and shield tanks in combat remain the same but they're on logistically equal footing, which in turn allows greater variety in the ships and fittings one normally sees in long-range small-gang or solo roams. Right now it's just Vagas, Curses, Cynabals, Drams, and those FOTM buffer-tanked Sleipnirs as far as the eye can see. Yawn. Note: I'm not suggesting those ships are popular solo/smallgang ships only because they're buffer tanked, but there are many good ships with similar desirable characteristics (like good range and mobility) that go overlooked because they need outside assistance to maintain their tank and are generally a burden on their fleetmates because of that.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.09.28 08:04:00 - [56] They should apply it as an effect to the "Regenerative plating" modules... ...in bed.
Rhinanna Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.09.28 10:14:00 - [57] 1 spare high in the fleet with an armour repper makes armour take the same time or less to rep than shields without a repper. People seem to forget that a buffer tanked ship that doesn't have recharge boosters (SPRs e.t.c.) will still take 5-10 mins to recover 100% shields. What I would suggest is a 'recovery' mode. Basically this would have several affects. 1. Takes 30 seconds to enter or leave recovery mode. 2. All modules become unuseable and disabled. Damage control been the one exception. 3. Armour starts repairing at 100hp/sec. 4. Armour resists reduced to zero including base resists (DC bonus will still apply) 5. Sheilds disabled. 6. Max speed 1/10 normal. 7. Drones will only function in a FoF mode (they will go for anything hostile that attacks you but won't be directable) 8. Any fleet e.t.c. bonuses will be lost and ship won't put out any bonuses as if docked. 9. When emerging from recovery mode shields and cap will be at 100%. 10. Not available to caps or supercaps or anything else with a jump drive, or increase duration for ships with jump drive (since they also have to powerdown the jump drive) and to stop it been used to speed up jumps. 11. Repairing with nanite paste can be done normally. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag)
wizard87	Posted - 2010.09.28 10:24:00 - [58] I would support this if it say suggested armour platings (The non-energized kind) such as the regenerative (the %HP increase plating) plating granted a slow regenrative effect - combined with slightly faster effects for using the (non-energized) adaptive platings. This means you could have lower overall resists and total hp using platings that regenrate slowly, or the current higher energized resists plus armour plates that dont regenrate.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente Wormhole XXXtreme	Posted - 2010.09.28 10:48:00 - [59] See.. this is why I like the ideas forum. :) You come up with a sketch of an idea, and other people run with it. I like the idea that it might be something that applies to nano plating modules.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente Wormhole XXXtreme	Posted - 2010.09.28 10:52:00 - [60] Originally by: AstarothPrime paying ~3M ISK to rep the armor in station is like . I can only imagine the dull job of repairing on high buffer armor tanked ships. Ahaha :D Try doing it after every single fight. I really want the people arguing against it to understand... this isn't a combat based suggestion, it is purely logistical in nature.



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