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Garak Jakobs
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Posted - 2010.09.22 17:26:00 -
[1]
Its come to my attention that yet again its the PVP people having it easier in this game.
I live in a class 3 and basically when someone pops inside from the low static and drops combat probes D-Scan will not pick them up and yes overview is setup to not use active overview settings.
So the PVP guy can see us but we have not 1 way to see him and this is not right, there should ways to see probes further than the max D scan range. In this situation there is no counter measure. Meaning its not properly balanced.
ECM - ECCM Scram - Stabs Speed tank - web
You get the idea i'm throwing up in the air here? Mostly everything has a counter but picking up probes in WHs needs to be sorted out.
D scan needs 64AU range in order to counter combat probes in WH space.
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Firkragg
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.09.22 17:32:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs Its come to my attention that yet again its the PVP people having it easier in this game.
I live in a class 3 and basically when someone pops inside from the low static and drops combat probes D-Scan will not pick them up and yes overview is setup to not use active overview settings.
So the PVP guy can see us but we have not 1 way to see him and this is not right, there should ways to see probes further than the max D scan range. In this situation there is no counter measure. Meaning its not properly balanced.
ECM - ECCM Scram - Stabs Speed tank - web
You get the idea i'm throwing up in the air here? Mostly everything has a counter but picking up probes in WHs needs to be sorted out.
D scan needs 64AU range in order to counter combat probes in WH space.
Actually im pretty sure that you will have trouble getting a warpable result on somone with a 64au scan from a combat probe. Fact is in order for them to warp on top of you they probabaly need to bring their probes into dscan range. TBH though you could counter by flying unprobabable setups or by keeping your own scout out looking for probes.
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Carver DiGriz
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2010.09.22 17:34:00 -
[3]
TBH, I'm not worried about a scan probe's hit outside of a 64AU radius... wake me up when he's closer. I do get that one needs to be vigilant enough to even roll the directional scanner to check for probes, but you've got to pay to play, right?
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.09.22 17:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Firkragg
Originally by: Garak Jakobs Its come to my attention that yet again its the PVP people having it easier in this game.
I live in a class 3 and basically when someone pops inside from the low static and drops combat probes D-Scan will not pick them up and yes overview is setup to not use active overview settings.
So the PVP guy can see us but we have not 1 way to see him and this is not right, there should ways to see probes further than the max D scan range. In this situation there is no counter measure. Meaning its not properly balanced.
ECM - ECCM Scram - Stabs Speed tank - web
You get the idea i'm throwing up in the air here? Mostly everything has a counter but picking up probes in WHs needs to be sorted out.
D scan needs 64AU range in order to counter combat probes in WH space.
Actually im pretty sure that you will have trouble getting a warpable result on somone with a 64au scan from a combat probe. Fact is in order for them to warp on top of you they probabaly need to bring their probes into dscan range. TBH though you could counter by flying unprobabable setups or by keeping your own scout out looking for probes.
Or park a spy ship (cloaked scanner with combats out) at the entrance WH, and have them keep an eye on things for you. --Vel
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King Pleasure
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Posted - 2010.09.22 17:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: King Pleasure on 22/09/2010 17:40:18
Originally by: Firkragg ...you could counter by flying unprobabable setups or by keeping your own scout out looking for probes...
Someone beat me to it. If you want to avoid being scanned down, fly something that can't be probed down or have some halfway intelligent people scout for you.
Edit - and keep your own combat probes out. Discourages a lot of people from hunting you down if they think you're also hunting them.
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Cebraio
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Posted - 2010.09.22 17:40:00 -
[6]
I don't think it's possible to get a 100% hit when your probes are still at 8AU or above. So plenty of time to detect them when they are below DS range.
Disclaimer: I suck at probing, so prove me wrong.
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.22 18:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: BeanBagKing on 22/09/2010 18:13:06
Originally by: Garak Jakobs ...drops combat probes D-Scan will not pick them up...
There are ways to fix this (make probes show), for those that know what I'm talking about shhhhhh, make him find it himself :P
If you don't want to be prey, then you have to be smarter and faster than the predator. I've lived in a wormhole for several months. Welcome to Eve on hard mode, 0.0 space with no local, and entrances can pop out from anywhere and you can get stuck there in ways that leave you no choice but to pod yourself out. I feel no pity for you. If you know what you are doing, are organized, and don't AFK, then it's just as hard to be caught in a wormhole as it is anywhere else. If you don't know what you are doing with overview settings, directional scan, scan probes, cloaky eyes, bubbles, POS settings, etc etc etc then you are going to get caught.
Risk/Reward
Edit: As others have said, just because you can make the max range on probes 64au does not mean they can probe you out from that far away. A really smart combat prober will still probably be able to keep you from seeing them on D-Scan, but again, it's his speed and intelligence vs yours, not "unfair game mechanics"
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Efraya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.22 18:43:00 -
[8]
Posting to confirm that my Dscan doesn't miss the probes in W-Space.
Drop a probe and I'll instantly spot it without having to scroll the scanning window (unless there is a pos too close by).
This is what you do:
Make a new overview and deselect all. Then select all again. Call it everything. With this overview selected, open the dscanner and sort by distance.
All the celestials will have a distance, so will anything that is on grid. Anything off the grid and not a celestial will now appear at the top of the overview.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:45:00 -
[9]
You are wrong and you are right. First the right:
If you're at a sleeper site pvpers can find you and you'll never see it coming.
Now the wrong:
Probes do appear on dscan.
Sleeper sites do not require probes to find. If you'll notice they group around celestials. All one needs to do to find them is warp, cloaked, to each planet and run in the build in scanner (not Dscan). The sites will appear and now all they have to do is warp, cloaked, to each one to find you. As far as I know.
If you're at grav, ladar, radar or mag sites, these require the use of probes to be found. If you're on top of your dscanning you "should" see them.
Rule of thumb:
Dscan allows a new scan every two seconds. When outside your FF, you should be availing yourself of a directional scan every 2 - 10 seconds. A good prober can find you in about 40 - 60 seconds. If you're letting your dscan lapse beyond that you're asking for trouble.
Food for thought:
If probes don't appear on dscan in a wh how come my corp members start freaking out every time I launch probes without telling them?
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Garak Jakobs
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:47:00 -
[10]
I understand I see probes too....
But when Im at a site i can no longer see the POS or ships around it on D Scan. Its as if im out of d scan range.
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Efraya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:48:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Efraya on 22/09/2010 21:49:15
Originally by: Mr Kidd
If you're at a sleeper site pvpers can find you and you'll never see it coming.
If I can spot incoming ganks, then so can OP and so should you. Welcome to W-Space, it pays to be paranoid.
Yes you are out of the range of the DScan, systems are bigger than 2147483647km's, well some of them are anyway, there are a few you can cover with that range though. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2010.09.22 21:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 22/09/2010 21:54:49
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Sleeper sites do not require probes to find. If you'll notice they group around celestials. All one needs to do to find them is warp, cloaked, to each planet and run in the build in scanner (not Dscan). The sites will appear and now all they have to do is warp, cloaked, to each one to find you. As far as I know.
pr0tip 1:
A good hunter will have you pinned within 5 degrees and will KNOW which anom you are in as soon as the scan completes.
pr0tip 2:
If the probe-pooper is any good the target will have roughly a 10-20 second max window to spot the probes prior to them being recalled. Based on experience 99.999% of pilots do not check scanner diligently every 10-20 seconds WH or not. Especially under heavy sleeper aggro. Or while being bored off ass while mining.
For the OP....if the probe-pooper is clever enough to keep probes off your LR scan by deploying them elsewhere in system until your butt is narrowed down via dscan for accurate quick probe placement and recall....tough ****.
**edit**OP...why should you get some special advantage for not deploying scouts etc and mass-spamming d-scan? Ummmm.....lol
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2010.09.22 22:01:00 -
[13]
Lazy bum :P
Get a cloaky scout on that hole.
But go ahead and ask for increased d-scanner range. From a w-space ganker's p.o.v. not half bad. A proper ship prober only needs one or two scan cycles at close range anyway and the dir scanner is an equally important tool.
Recruiting. |
Siko lawk
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Posted - 2010.09.22 22:04:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Siko lawk on 22/09/2010 22:06:16
Originally by: Mr Kidd A good prober can find you in about 40 - 60 seconds.
anywhere else but a WH then I'd tend to agree. When I cloaky pew in wh's I will locate my target on dscan to a pretty damn small area, I then drop my probes 14+ au away from my target, as I already know the position of the target I can run my probes at a short range and 80% of the time I get a hit on the first scan.
The target has from the point my probes are moving into scan position to scan time then my warp in time, unless the target gets lucky with their d-scan timing it works majority of the time.
that being said I disagree with the OP, a WH is a dangerous and risky place
EDIT: Oh yeah, I know the above is mostly common knowledge but just saying.
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Barakkus
Ishukone Institute of Technology
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Posted - 2010.09.22 23:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cebraio I don't think it's possible to get a 100% hit when your probes are still at 8AU or above. So plenty of time to detect them when they are below DS range.
Disclaimer: I suck at probing, so prove me wrong.
If you're good at it you can pinpoint someone before they see probes on dscan, more than likely will hit them between hitting the dscan button and have your probes back before they notice you, unless you're flying something hard to scan down.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.09.22 23:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Efraya Edited by: Efraya on 22/09/2010 21:49:15
Originally by: Mr Kidd
If you're at a sleeper site pvpers can find you and you'll never see it coming.
If I can spot incoming ganks, then so can OP and so should you. Welcome to W-Space, it pays to be paranoid.
Yes you are out of the range of the DScan, systems are bigger than 2147483647km's, well some of them are anyway, there are a few you can cover with that range though.
I understand what you're saying. But I don't think you're allowing for the cov-ops tackler that decloaks in warp disruptor range just after you've killed the last sleeper. Then his friends warp in before you can kill him and you're dead. Hence, you'll never see it coming.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.23 00:57:00 -
[17]
There's not a single person in my WH corp who does not suffer from carpal tunnel, nearly a year 1/2 in wormhole space and we have never been jumped.
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Kestrix
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Posted - 2010.09.23 02:07:00 -
[18]
D-Scan sucks and will get you killed if you try to rely on it. Instead use combat probes. All you are looking for is a new sig, you don't need to zero in on them to see what they are just be aware of your sigs and you'll see straight away when other ships arrive in your system. This way you'll never get caught with your pants down again. |
illford baker
ZZ's tax free corp
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Posted - 2010.09.23 02:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kestrix D-Scan sucks and will get you killed if you try to rely on it. Instead use combat probes. All you are looking for is a new sig, you don't need to zero in on them to see what they are just be aware of your sigs and you'll see straight away when other ships arrive in your system. This way you'll never get caught with your pants down again.
*checks the logic* hey, thats clever.
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Firkragg
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.09.23 07:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kestrix D-Scan sucks and will get you killed if you try to rely on it. Instead use combat probes. All you are looking for is a new sig, you don't need to zero in on them to see what they are just be aware of your sigs and you'll see straight away when other ships arrive in your system. This way you'll never get caught with your pants down again.
Thats actually not a terrible idea if you want something with a bit more range.
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LittleTerror
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Posted - 2010.09.23 10:46:00 -
[21]
Put a large bubble on the WH exit to normal space, put a cloaked scout there and shutup. |
Marko Riva
0ne Percent.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:09:00 -
[22]
OP is either trolling or doesn't understand how probing works OR it's just a "waah I don't want to actually be active and pay attention to make the game safe"
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Garak Jakobs
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Posted - 2010.09.23 11:32:00 -
[23]
My WH system is a little over 32AU wide and probes only work to 14AU
This is why I cant pick up probes from a great distance. Simple really.
Its a shame that for a simple post there always has to be total prats like the above poster who has to accuse of trolling or not knowing how D scan works. Im perfectly good with d scan and probing.
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thatbloke
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs My WH system is a little over 32AU wide and probes only work to 14AU
This is why I cant pick up probes from a great distance. Simple really.
Its a shame that for a simple post there always has to be total prats like the above poster who has to accuse of trolling or not knowing how D scan works. Im perfectly good with d scan and probing.
No, dscan only works to 14AU.
if people have probes out then they should not be able to get a warpable location using combats at anything over 8AU, unless maybe you're in a capital ship.
Other people in this thread have already stated methods of finding you or at least getting to within a couple of AU of you without needing probes out, however.
Originally by: CCP Shadow I think we'd be better off with a troll shard.
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Aggelos Theristes
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:44:00 -
[25]
Don't forget if you're at a site that always shows as 100% on scan you don't need probes to find it, so they won't need probes to find you!
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.23 13:51:00 -
[26]
Edited by: BeanBagKing on 23/09/2010 13:54:29
Originally by: Garak Jakobs ...Im perfectly good with d scan and probing.
No, you're not, or you wouldn't be having this problem. Also...
Originally by: Garak Jakobs ...probes only work to 14AU
Right there you have mixed up probing and directional scan. Probes work at either 32AU (core) or 64AU (combat). Core doesn't do you much good in this case, but combat would as an above poster pointed out. In any case it's not something you need as directional is almost always good enough, and even if you use combat probes, you should be spamming the thing anyway.
Your original problem said it was probes not showing up on D-Scan, as people have said, they do. However, I'm now wondering if you have mixed up probes and d-scan there too and actually want probes to show up on probes....
In any case, 14AU is enough, if you are aligned and ready you should be able to get away from anything that starts warping to you uncloaked, and it's hard to scan someone down with probes out farther than 14AU, although people can make the radius smaller and drop them right on top of you, so spam that d-scan! Then there are always cloaky T3's that can warp around and use on board scanner to find anoms if you are in one, never having to launch probes to begin with. That's why an alt or corp member watching the exits is a good idea.
What you basically want is easy mode, or as someone else put it "I don't want to actually be active and pay attention" (add to that having corp members help you out). You have people in here that are in/have been in the exact same position as you telling you the mechanics are fine, you just need to know how to use them. You responding that they aren't fine, and that "there should ways to see probes further than the max D scan range.".
Again, there will always be a way to catch you unless you stay docked at all times. Wormholes are particularly brutal. If you aren't faster and smarter than everyone who comes in you'll be the pray. Instead of wishing that they would change the mechanics you should take some of the advice in this forum, or better yet, talk to people live. There's an exploration channel in game iirc, or join a corp/alliance that specializes in wormholes/wh tactics and spend some time with them learning the tricks.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kestrix D-Scan sucks and will get you killed if you try to rely on it. Instead use combat probes. All you are looking for is a new sig, you don't need to zero in on them to see what they are just be aware of your sigs and you'll see straight away when other ships arrive in your system. This way you'll never get caught with your pants down again.
Dscan scans every 2 seconds. Probes, what is it, like 10 seconds or more depending on skills? If you're using both at the same time one cannot argue with the thoroughness of that scanning regime. I doubt you get much else done though. If you're supplanting dscan in favor of probes as an early warning, well....good luck with that.
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