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Songar Gunin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:13:00 - [1] Hello everyone! Was looking at the Force Recon ships, and as i am training up both Minmatar and Amarr stuff, would like to know if the following setup is viable. I have heard of laser-pilgrim before, but couldn't find something relevant with the search option. Anyway, here's what i am thinking about: [Pilgrim, New Setup 1] Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Shadow Serpentis 10MN MicroWarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I Hammerhead II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Hammerhead II x2 Warrior II x6 I have checked out some other posts about this ship, and all are on about how it has no range bonus, meaning instant death in close. So i though what would it be like if i used guns instead, and go around the range issue: with Scorch i'd get 23 + 5 km, and the 2x optimal range scripted should reduce range on enemy guns enough so i wont be taking much damage. Please tell me if its a total waste of time, or if not, what can i do to improve it. Don't tell me about getting NOS/ Neutralizers as i can find those setups and copy/ paste them no prob. Thanks in advance! PS: about the rigs, well, i figured it'd be nice to achieve a lock as soon as possible, what with the targeting delay after dropping cloak. But i'm also interested in your take on that!
Suzie Slurp	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:20:00 - [2] im sure there isnt a delay with recons after cloak? so you would be better fitting something more useful in the rigs slots
Rakshan Gallente Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:25:00 - [3] there is still a delay with targeting after decloak on recons. as for the fit. you realize you are throwing away the T2 bonuses on this ship for that fit right? the neut fits that are out there are more viable simply because you're drones do enough DPS to break most neuted tanks before you manage to get yourself killed. neut fit pilgrim > gun fit pilgrim any day however on the same note if you fly the curse i recommend fitting 2-3 HMLs to up you're dps a small amount. Life is Pain.....Get over it!!!!
Johnny cruz	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:30:00 - [4] First reaction: lol fail Second reaction: hmm, maybe kinda clever? Tossed it into EFT... Lasers offer you 108 DPS. Brings your DPS up to a massive 360. This number isn't actually all that bad, but your speed is abyssmal to actually maintain your range. So let's talk about what you're trying to do here... If you're looking to actually engage in pvp in a gang with this ship, you'll be out-performed by a harbinger at 1/3 the cost. If you're looking to solo hunt, this has -potential-, but I think a nanocane could probably catch you, and the moment he does you are fked through and through. As a solo carebear hunter, it works just as well as the Nuet variety, except you won't break a good active tank like the nuet version can. So yeah, it's kind of a clever and different idea, but I wouldn't personally suggest it. The fit you're using though is decent, rigs I would consider polycarbs (yeah I know it nerfs your armor... but you're REALLY slow without them, even without a plate).
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:32:00 - [5] This is basically an old idea, a fun one at that as well. I'd rather go with a shield tank tho. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Inara Tyana	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:34:00 - [6] laser pilgrim is certainly viable (Hint* fit the lows with heatsinks and the mids with a shield tank, forget tracking disruptors). Although its not used as much nowdays tbh.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:37:00 - [7] My Pilgram will be fit with the following! 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x Adaptive Nano Plating II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Medium Capacitor Booster Tracking Disruptor II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II 2x Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Energy Neutralizer II Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Egress Port Maximizer I You uncloak beside the target and web and scram them. You then TD them, orbit them and nuet them while releasing drones! For good measure a friend in a double TP Stealth bomber will add DPS at a distance! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1
Songar Gunin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.28 12:31:00 - [8] Thanks everyone for your input, it sure looks like there is a little potential in the laser-pilgrim, most likely i suppose to get npc-ers at belts or something; otherwise its the approach, drop cloak, neut the living daylights outta them, td and kill with drones. Guess i'll try both approaches, as well as that laserboat w/ shield buffer, who knows. Main reason i want to use the Pilgrim is that as i've seen and read around here, the moment you are spotted in a Curse, you'll never find something to kill! Well, i'll train up and try it out, its as much fun as anything else in pvp i guess, to try and come up with something radical that works. Btw, any suggestions for implants? Snakes, the ones that improve nos/neut (something blood raider, i forget the name), any hardwirings... ?
Kneebone Heathens' Harbor	Posted - 2010.09.28 14:12:00 - [9] I know we are into "thinking outside the box" here, but really with this ship and how you want to use it, you are almost better off with a Curse. If this is for fleet use, then the Curse is the much much better choice. Just my two cents. It could just be that the purpose of your life is to server as a warning to others.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.09.28 16:02:00 - [10] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 28/09/2010 16:03:32 The reason the gun Pilgrim works is because solo PvP is best done at a safe distance so that you can warp out when things start to go bad (you engaged a bait ship, another pirate also spotted your target, etc). The standard neut Pilgrim has a lot of problems here, without the neut range bonus you're stuck in web/scram range and you aren't going to escape if trouble shows up. On the other hand, the gun Pilgrim can orbit at a nice safe 20km and has a pretty good chance of MWDing away and warping out. Of course your targets are more limited without the neuts to break active tanks, but that's the tradeoff: more targets vs. better chance of surviving. -----------
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.09.28 18:40:00 - [11] TBH just use an Arbitrator for this as you aren't ignoring huge bonusses to the ship and would work almost as effectively (though better with neuts fitted most likely)
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2010.09.28 19:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Idicious Lightbane TBH just use an Arbitrator for this as you aren't ignoring huge bonusses to the ship and would work almost as effectively (though better with neuts fitted most likely) Except for that very, very minor issue of the CovOps cloak?
Maihes Sehim Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.28 19:14:00 - [13] If you really want to fit turrets on a pilgrim, atleast go Autocannon / Artillery. No cap use >>>> cap use when the ship has no bonuses to turret damage.
Songar Gunin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.28 21:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Songar Gunin on 28/09/2010 21:13:04 Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Idicious Lightbane TBH just use an Arbitrator for this as you aren't ignoring huge bonusses to the ship and would work almost as effectively (though better with neuts fitted most likely) Except for that very, very minor issue of the CovOps cloak? This. If i wanted a Curse i'd do so - its both the cloaky part, plus the general low view of the ship compared to its cousin that made me interested in it. Also: Originally by: Maihes Sehim If you really want to fit turrets on a pilgrim, atleast go Autocannon / Artillery. No cap use >>>> cap use when the ship has no bonuses to turret damage. Indeed. About 40 DPS less with 425mm Autos if i swap the damage mod for a track enhancer, only 15 DPS less if i go with the Gyrostabilizer, both with barrage. Still, With HPL + Scorch i wont be fighting in fallof, so it remains to be tested. Since there is already a cap booster installed, i like to keep as many options open to me as possible. Besides, if i get into that kind of trouble where i run out of charges and/ or am capped so that lasers cant shoot anymore, its probably way past too late anyway.
Sub Prime	Posted - 2010.09.28 21:22:00 - [15] With tracking disruption, you're obviously going to be targeting gun boats, and with lasers you'll be doing EM/Thermal dmg. Amarr ships are EM/Therm resistant, Gallente are EM/Therm resistant, Minmatar (Armor tanked) are EM/Therm resistant. Basically, forget Lasers if you're aiming for targets to tracking disrupt. Go for missiles and have all dmg types at your disposal.
Songar Gunin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.28 21:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Songar Gunin on 28/09/2010 21:32:41 Originally by: Sub Prime With tracking disruption, you're obviously going to be targeting gun boats, and with lasers you'll be doing EM/Thermal dmg. Amarr ships are EM/Therm resistant, Gallente are EM/Therm resistant, Minmatar (Armor tanked) are EM/Therm resistant. Basically, forget Lasers if you're aiming for targets to tracking disrupt. Go for missiles and have all dmg types at your disposal. I'd love to, sadly Pilgrim has no missile slots. And yes, i will be going after gunboats, missile boats i'd rather avoid at all costs in that. If you were referring to Curse, then yes, sure, i'd use 2-3 missile launchers depending on what i'd be after. But for the Pilgrim, i assume you meant projectiles for selective damage type?
Sub Prime	Posted - 2010.09.28 21:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Songar Gunin Edited by: Songar Gunin on 28/09/2010 21:32:41 Originally by: Sub Prime With tracking disruption, you're obviously going to be targeting gun boats, and with lasers you'll be doing EM/Thermal dmg. Amarr ships are EM/Therm resistant, Gallente are EM/Therm resistant, Minmatar (Armor tanked) are EM/Therm resistant. Basically, forget Lasers if you're aiming for targets to tracking disrupt. Go for missiles and have all dmg types at your disposal. I'd love to, sadly Pilgrim has no missile slots. And yes, i will be going after gunboats, missile boats i'd rather avoid at all costs in that. If you were referring to Curse, then yes, sure, i'd use 2-3 missile launchers depending on what i'd be after. But for the Pilgrim, i assume you meant projectiles for selective damage type? My mistake, yes, go for projectiles. You'll get EXP/Kinetic with Barrage (at decent range) and the choice of EM/Exp/Therm at shorter ranges.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2010.09.28 22:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Songar Gunin Hello everyone! Was looking at the Force Recon ships, and as i am training up both Minmatar and Amarr stuff, would like to know if the following setup is viable. I have heard of laser-pilgrim before, but couldn't find something relevant with the search option. Anyway, here's what i am thinking about: I had one of first (at least known on forums) lazor pilgrims in EVE. Still got it tho i havent flown it for ages now (bombers are better and cheaper + no uncloak delay). Setup was: 3x hvy pulse, covops mids same as yours lows: MAR, 2x sink, 2x eanm i had no rigs (and still dont have any). If i were to use it again i would surely change one heat sink to something like 800mm plate. Would need prolly to downgrade guns to focuseds and maybe some ACR rigs. Other idea is to use dualprop setup and put 2x ewar rigs + 1x TD instead of 2. As for flying. 1v1 it will either win or run away from all gunboats out there. missile boats? you can hope for fast gank but single MAR will not against even NPCing drake, thats why it needs 800mm plate. In gangs its also fun ship, i used to carry curators when playing at long range, at shorter doing usual: hammers+lazors. Tho most of the time i was just doing scout job. Was considering ACs but that was pre-ac boost so kinda limited on damage types (i was working in guris space). Now after AC ammo changes - worth with dualprop. Less issues with cap, large damage, good tracking, variable damage types. All in all: fun ship but in longer run bombers are better.
Kingwood Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.29 03:55:00 - [19] Pilgrim is ****. Hurricane will kill it regardless whether it's set up with Lasers or Neuts. It's only worth it (marginally) for WH roaming or mission/Plex busting. It could also kill ratters in 0.0, but if you're doing that why not use a Dramiel or a Stealthbomber. I used to fly the Pilgrim a lot, still have one lying somewhere but haven't touched it for about a year - it's just not a good ship.
Evanga Amarr Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.09.29 05:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Kingwood it's just not a good ship. Lol! Depends on what you are doing with it
Songar Gunin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.29 09:27:00 - [21] I get a number of replies about how a Hurricane will wtfbbqown me. Well, ofc it will, it is one of the best BCs and generally a very good solo ship, that i will be flying at some point as well. Point is though, why should i even engage a Hurricane in the first place? Cloak is there for exactly that purpose, choose what i attack - and hide from anything that can kill me! Knowing what some ships can and cannot do, why would i offer a 'free' Killmail at all? As for the plate, yes, its a sensible suggestion against missile boats, but i'd rather fight those in a Hurricane or a Harbinger anyway, and not in a Pilgrim. Also, i like the Autocannon idea, capless damage selection is win imho. Thank you all for your comments so far, quite instructing!
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.09.29 10:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Kingwood Pilgrim is **. Hurricane will kill it regardless whether it's set up with Lasers or Neuts. It's only worth it (marginally) for WH roaming or mission/Plex busting. It could also kill ratters in 0.0, but if you're doing that why not use a Dramiel or a Stealthbomber. I used to fly the Pilgrim a lot, still have one lying somewhere but haven't touched it for about a year - it's just not a good ship. I saw one solo** a Brutix wt 70 km from a station while his buddies at undock could only watch. Might have been a crappy Brutix pilot but I want a Pilgrim nonetheless ^_^ ~~Recruiting.~~
Jessica Fyers Gallente Azure Horizon	Posted - 2010.09.29 11:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Ran Khanon Originally by: Kingwood Pilgrim is **. Hurricane will kill it regardless whether it's set up with Lasers or Neuts. It's only worth it (marginally) for WH roaming or mission/Plex busting. It could also kill ratters in 0.0, but if you're doing that why not use a Dramiel or a Stealthbomber. I used to fly the Pilgrim a lot, still have one lying somewhere but haven't touched it for about a year - it's just not a good ship. I saw one solo** a Brutix wt 70 km from a station while his buddies at undock could only watch. Might have been a crappy Brutix pilot but I want a Pilgrim nonetheless ^_^ Everything is situational in EVE, we must always remember that. At any rate, doubt a Brutix could do much against a Pilgrim, whether shield buffered or active armor tank with booster. ---------------------------------------------- Some people say you should fight fire with fire... Nonsense of course; you should fight everything with fire!
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2010.09.29 14:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Songar Gunin Also, i like the Autocannon idea, capless damage selection is win imho. The problem is autocannons force you to get a little closer. Pilgrim doesnt get faloff bonus so you WILL need to hover around edge of web range or even enter web range. Thus you should also use dualprop to increase your survival chances. Using lazors you can just sit at 20-24km and fry the guy. Also it is worth noting that pilgrim is one of slowest cruiser-sized ships. You need to take it into account when engaging say zealots or sacrileges (i managed to kill one of each, zealot was easy but sacri was a dualrep ***** with quite good pilot so it took a while to kill... fortunately it was before overheat changes).
Songar Gunin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.29 15:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Songar Gunin Also, i like the Autocannon idea, capless damage selection is win imho. The problem is autocannons force you to get a little closer. Pilgrim doesnt get faloff bonus so you WILL need to hover around edge of web range or even enter web range. Thus you should also use dualprop to increase your survival chances. Using lazors you can just sit at 20-24km and fry the guy. Also it is worth noting that pilgrim is one of slowest cruiser-sized ships. You need to take it into account when engaging say zealots or sacrileges (i managed to kill one of each, zealot was easy but sacri was a dualrep ***** with quite good pilot so it took a while to kill... fortunately it was before overheat changes). Not really, Barrage will let me sit comfortably further out than overheated t2 web range, and almost at the same range as with HPL II w/ Scorch if i use a Track Enhancer over a Gyrostab. And since Sacrilege is a missile boat, it falls in the "not gonna engage with this ship/setup" category.
Kingwood Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.29 15:35:00 - [26] As always, it depends on the pilot but with a Pilgrim you're pretty much relegated to WH roaming (Cloak + Probelauncher) or busting missioners/plexers. Going into 0.0 with the Pilgrim with AB fitted is dumb, the Gun/MWD Pilgrim will have better chances going through bubbled gates. Your DPS is ** with the TD/Neut setup, and you'll have to hope that your target isn't getting any support, as otherwise you're ed since you're fighting in web/Scram range. The Gun Pilgrim I could see working somewhat, but it's really slow and a Hurricane will catch you. Pilgrim was the first T2 ship I skilled into and I wanted to make it work, but it really ain't a good ship. Going for ratters in 0.0? Use a Dram or SB, or hell, a cheap Shield buffer Rupture. That said, I haven't tried the Gun Pilgrim out yet but I really see no reason why I would, tbh. lol killmail + Geddon arriving after I'd killed the Arazu but I bugged out after killing the Pilgrim. ** pilots maybe, but it still reinforces my point.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2010.09.29 15:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Songar Gunin Not really, Barrage will let me sit comfortably further out than overheated t2 web range, and almost at the same range as with HPL II w/ Scorch if i use a Track Enhancer over a Gyrostab. Still at 20 KM its about half the DPS of heavy pulses. And edging on overheated web range can become risky. Ofc against NPCers there is almost no risk at all - they dont have scramblers... Quote: And since Sacrilege is a missile boat, it falls in the "not gonna engage with this ship/setup" category. Sacri is acrually quite easy to kill with gun pilgrim IF you know what you are doing and if you know his limits. Pretty much: HAM range is around 17km (effective) so you can sit outside this distance. Also if hes trying to follow you - his range drops even further to around 13-14km. If hes running his range gets a bit longer but still wont reach 24/28km (overheated) point. Same for HAM drakes - you can probably kill them but knowing life they will just kill your drones (or if its that rare HAM drake with javelins - they will force you out).
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.29 16:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Sacri is acrually quite easy to kill with gun pilgrim IF you know what you are doing and if you know his limits. Pretty much: HAM range is around 17km (effective) so you can sit outside this distance. Also if hes trying to follow you - his range drops even further to around 13-14km. If hes running his range gets a bit longer but still wont reach 24/28km (overheated) point. Same for HAM drakes - you can probably kill them but knowing life they will just kill your drones (or if its that rare HAM drake with javelins - they will force you out). I would really like to see those "easy kills"... U kidding? Unless we are talking "no prop mod" Sac, he will be an idiot not get into range...unless the Pilrim is receiving a hell of a Skirmish Link boost, snakes, etc, it's no-where near a good "nano-boat"...and if you had that kind of support in system, you wouldn't choose a pilgrim as a main fighter, would ya? On-top of that, the Sac has a MASSIVE tank for it's size, with strong resists across the board. I doubt vagas with way more dps @ range would call a Sac "quite easy pray"...yes, you can tackle it, but unless help is coming anytime soon, you want be able to break him with the meh DPS of a Pilgrim @ range. Turret pilgrims are successful in face "melting" situations, mostly against ratting BSs weak against it's dmg type and smaller stuff that are caught off-guard. Kitting is not a Pilgrim's thing... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2010.09.29 17:18:00 - [29] Fact is i did solo sacri (yes yes few other dudes on got on mail from previous engagement and on finish when they came just to ***** on mail) but work from full shield to low struct was 1v1 with pil. You can check killboards for it for all i care. Flown both gun pilgrim and sacri LONG enough to know how kill one with other. And like i said (you did miss it i guess) it was before OH era (or maybe just after and he didnt have it trained yet) as nowadays sacri can do 1OH cycle and just catch any nos-boat.

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