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Zemkhoff
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Posted - 2010.10.07 19:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zemkhoff on 07/10/2010 19:39:54
Okay so one of the drawbacks with drone-ships is that their primary weapon can be destroyed or left behind. This is usually not a huge problem in lowsec if you bring spares along in your cargohold, as you can dock up at any random station and re-supply yourself.
It's more of an issue in 0.0 where roaming gangs often have to kill and gtfo when there are no stations readily available.
For a myrmidon this is a pretty big problem where you'd have to be stupid to forsake the extra 90 dps of the 2-2-1 combination in favor of 5 hammerhead IIs. Even when you plan on using 3 straight flights of hammerheads IIs, you could easily end up losing all of them if your roam is busy hitting targets and getting out as soon as local spikes.
This is not a whine-post about the weapon system itself, but rather I'm stating some reasons for a suggestion.
Allow drones to be moved from the cargohold to the drone bay. To prevent abuse during fights, while the the drone bay is being reloaded, no drone-related activity can be taken for a period of 30 seconds.
Let those who want to invest extra isk into giving their drone-boats more endurance on roams do so.
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.10.07 20:09:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Zemkhoff
Edited by: Zemkhoff on 07/10/2010 19:39:54
Okay so one of the drawbacks with drone-ships is that their primary weapon can be destroyed or left behind. This is usually not a huge problem in lowsec if you bring spares along in your cargohold, as you can dock up at any random station and re-supply yourself.
It's more of an issue in 0.0 where roaming gangs often have to kill and gtfo when there are no stations readily available.
For a myrmidon this is a pretty big problem where you'd have to be stupid to forsake the extra 90 dps of the 2-2-1 combination in favor of 5 hammerhead IIs. Even when you plan on using 3 straight flights of hammerheads IIs, you could easily end up losing all of them if your roam is busy hitting targets and getting out as soon as local spikes.
This is not a whine-post about the weapon system itself, but rather I'm stating some reasons for a suggestion.
Allow drones to be moved from the cargohold to the drone bay. To prevent abuse during fights, while the the drone bay is being reloaded, no drone-related activity can be taken for a period of 30 seconds.
Let those who want to invest extra isk into giving their drone-boats more endurance on roams do so.
Being gallente I understand ur grievance but have to disagree with ur proposed mechanism or at least the timescale. 30 seconds is not a *really* long time for a dual/triple repping myrm fighting a solo target. If said target was popping drones the myrm may be able to survive quite easily long enough to move a fill bay over again... really not very fair.
The transfer should either take *much* longer, like 2 minutes at least or be cap related like onlining modules, even then that might be achievable with cap booster, so I dunno, but ur proposal is really no good
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KaiserSoze434
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Posted - 2010.10.07 23:25:00 -
[3]
Not a bad idea in theory, but would need to be balanced carefully. I'm thinking maybe have inflight drone bay changes require a cap percentage in the same way that inflight onlining of modules does.
"Aghast the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." |
Cy Kopath
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:42:00 -
[4]
To prevent the above posters problem, have it so you can't do it while you have agression, just like you can't use gates. This would be in addition to a timer.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:31:00 -
[5]
EVE Chronicle: The Vampire
- Guy's got a fancy new drone in his cargo bay.
- Pirates tell him to Jet Can it, but he decides to load it into the drone bay instead, and launches it into combat.
- Drone pewpew's them to death.
First off, I want this drone already. =)
Secondly, I'd love to see a reload ability, as well as a damage display and possibly even repair ability in the drone bay.
As for some of these suggested trade-offs, I don't agree with Cap cost. Drones are drones because they don't use Cap. It's not like they need gassed up before leaving. And I could see a reloading timer like guns and such, but not something that takes all day.
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One Button Extractors
Explosions!
ORE Field Offices |
Rawbone
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Posted - 2010.10.09 00:12:00 -
[6]
Supported. A round of smart bombs easily strips the myrmidon/ishtar of any effective dps. Furthermore, jump into low-sec and count the drone boats camping the gate. Drones are a favorite target of gate guns. There's a reason you never see Myrmidon gangs roaming low/null sec.
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Arigato Gozaimasu
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Posted - 2010.10.09 11:44:00 -
[7]
Yes, should have been implemented a long time ago, as well as reconnection to drones.
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Seamus Donohue
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Posted - 2010.10.09 18:09:00 -
[8]
Supported with an alternate tradeoff suggestion.
Instead of a flat 30 seconds or two minutes, instead make it 1 second per cubic meter of drone. So, to load a single light drone from the cargohold into the drone bay without Orca support requires no drone activity for 5 seconds, but to load 2 heavy drones, 2 medium drones, and 1 light drone into a drone bay without Orca support requires 75 seconds.
Vessels that offer fitting services to other ships (like the Orca) should be exempt from this timer when transferring drones from their own cargohold into their own drone bay.
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Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
David Carel
Caldari
Random Selection.
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.10.09 18:58:00 -
[9]
Not supported. Losing drones should hurt.
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Running missions
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Posted - 2010.10.09 20:56:00 -
[10]
2-3 minutes should be the timer or so. imagine alliance tournaments, drone boats could destroy all if cargo could be used if it didnt take long
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Zemkhoff
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:34:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zemkhoff on 09/10/2010 21:39:25
Edited by: Zemkhoff on 09/10/2010 21:36:54
Edited by: Zemkhoff on 09/10/2010 21:36:10
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
Supported with an alternate tradeoff suggestion.
Instead of a flat 30 seconds or two minutes, instead make it 1 second per cubic meter of drone. So, to load a single light drone from the cargohold into the drone bay without Orca support requires no drone activity for 5 seconds, but to load 2 heavy drones, 2 medium drones, and 1 light drone into a drone bay without Orca support requires 75 seconds.
Vessels that offer fitting services to other ships (like the Orca) should be exempt from this timer when transferring drones from their own cargohold into their own drone bay.
Maybe, I'd be concerned about a drone player feeding drones in piecemeal as the other player kills them. Tbh a flat time of 1-2 minutes sounds best.
Originally by: David Carel
Not supported. Losing drones should hurt.
Any other reasoning? I think losing drones over the period of a roam should only hurt you financially and in the immediate short term while you are fighting, much like ammo costs or overheating/repair.
Losing drones shouldn't cripple ships like a myrmidon if a player wants to invest extra isk into giving their ship more endurance. It's the same principle as nearly burning out your guns, but choosing to have nanite paste along so you can do the same thing all over again.
Quote:
To prevent the above posters problem, have it so you can't do it while you have agression, just like you can't use gates. This would be in addition to a timer.
This.
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Solo Maxwell
AngelSlayer LLC
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Posted - 2010.10.10 02:03:00 -
[12]
Sounds like a great idea
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Dek Kato
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.10 03:47:00 -
[13]
Not supported. This completely destroys the point of different sized drone bays. The Myrmidon/Ishtar may lose drones, but they can replace them. Something like a Vagabond can't fit any spares. That's the point. Drones are a different weapon system with different mechanics.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Thread locked due to troll convention.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.10.10 04:56:00 -
[14]
for the sake of game-play and logic I would be ok with it if it would be tied to a module preferably a high slot one that would have to be activated
and would maybe even make the ship unmaneuverable
because: how would that even work you got 2 different spaces in your ship the drone bay which maybe has some sort of drone launch apparatus
and the normal cargo hold which is space compressed and is not in any way connected with the drone bay?
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Zemkhoff
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Posted - 2010.10.10 05:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zemkhoff on 10/10/2010 05:05:49
Originally by: Dek Kato
Not supported. This completely destroys the point of different sized drone bays. The Myrmidon/Ishtar may lose drones, but they can replace them. Something like a Vagabond can't fit any spares.
It doesn't "completely destroy" the point of different sized drone bays. What I have described can be already done in lowsec, where you can carry an extra flight of 2-2-1 or a flight of Ogres and after the fight is over you dock up and replace the drones.
Dronebay there hasn't been made pointless by smart myrm players carrying an extra flight when they aren't rep-fit. In the immediate combat situation, dronebay still dictates your dps if you lose your 2-2-1, you will have to switch to 5 hammerhead IIs, and so on. Ditto with the vaga losing its warriors.
The only thing it will really change is fights in 0.0, where you might see more myrmidons roaming if they can replace their primary weapon system after a fight.
Quote:
That's the point. Drones are a different weapon system with different mechanics.
Yes they are. A weapon system that can get easily destroyed or left behind obviously doesn't need a method to replace it's losses am i right? I mean turrets and missiles are able to overheat for extra benefit, yet also repair themselves in the field. Drone platforms should have a similar method of self-replenishment.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.10.10 05:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cy Kopath
To prevent the above posters problem, have it so you can't do it while you have agression, just like you can't use gates. This would be in addition to a timer.
This.
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CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.11 05:22:00 -
[17]
I'm not sure I like the idea of limiting internal actions according to whether or not you're in combat, but I suppose it could work. Also, replacing larger bays should take more time.
An alternate idea I'd like to suggest, though is:
1) A cargohold-to-dronebay transfer may not be initiated unless there have been zero Drones In Local Space for X seconds.
2A) Each cubic meter of drone requires Y seconds of transfer time.
2B) Transferring a bandwidth's-worth of drones requires Y seconds of transfer time.
2C) Completely filling the whole dronebay at once requires Y seconds of transfer time.
3) Drones may not be launched if a cargohold-to-dronebay transfer finished in the past Z seconds.
The parameters X, Y, Z can be adjusted. Personally, I'm thinking:
X = 60 seconds
Option 2B
Y = 120 seconds
Z = 60 seconds
consecutive
So, a Myrmidon trying to fill an empty drone bay without Orca support, from the moment it lost it's last drone, would need to wait a minute, begin the first transfer of 75 m^3 of drones, wait 2 minutes for the first transfer to complete, begin the second transfer of 75 m^3 of drones, wait 2 minutes for the second transfer to complete, then wait one more minute before launching any drones. A total of six minutes for the chosen parameters.
If we go with X = 60s, Option 2A, Y = 1 s/m^3, Z = 60s, then the same Myrmidon needs 4.5 minutes.
Like I said, though, the parameters can be adjusted. But if a fight is dragging on a really long time without the Myrmidon (or other drone boat) having any drones out, and it's still surviving, then it should be able to replace drones mid-fight from it's cargohold.
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Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.11 05:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Seamus Donohue on 11/10/2010 05:25:38
Doubleposted by accident.
__________________________________________________
Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.10.11 10:24:00 -
[19]
Geez... you people make things so damn complicated. "Xm3 multiplied by Y seconds divided by the third participle." FFS somebody has to code that, and every extra timer you throw into the game increases lag.
Just make it like onlining a mod. You need 95% cap to load a drone. Then your cap gets knocked down to 50% (or w/e it is for mods). You ain't gonna be doing that in the middle of combat. And even doing it outside of combat is gonna take a hell of a long time (unless you start wasting cap boosters).
Voila! Problem solved, quick and easy. And it was already in mentioned in... let's see... OMFG the 1st reply!
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.10.11 16:22:00 -
[20]
i like the concept, may need some tweaking however.
why not a simple : "can't be done while targeted" like for cloaking ?
you can only reload drone if no one target you, so only when you were able to leave or finish a combat
you can add an agression timer to avoid doing this while ennmies are targeting someone else and not you
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
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Keras Authion
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Posted - 2010.10.11 17:59:00 -
[21]
Another idea to complement the previous ones: You can't recover or launch drones while reloading. Any drones out may still be controlled, but not recovered. Now if you happen to lose drones, you'll have to wait for the reload to end. Combined with a long reload time this should encourage a more careful approach, not just launch drones -> reload, scoop to cargo whatever doesn't fit back in.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:20:00 -
[22]
I know I have flown up to drones I left behind to chase an enemy (or be chased) and hit "scoop to cargo" instead of dronebay. It would be nice to be able to jettison them then scoop them into the dronebay or some variation on that theme.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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