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Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
11
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Posted - 2012.08.02 18:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Charles Baker wrote:MIrple wrote:If attacks at me are your only defense at this point when people in this thread are trying to put newbie and hulk in the same group? I am not a ganker so you can calm down a little. Hulks are infact not newbie ships and people that get into them as quickly as they can without training up and secondary skills like shield skills for example need to step back and calm down. there have been many post about how to fit a hulk to have a small tank. If these miners did so and still they were getting ganked I do not see the gankers being so upset about it getting a slight buff. All that is being argued is that mines refused to fit a tank and got there ship blown up. You can not fit a tank on a number of t2 cruisers and have the same EHP as a untanked hulk. I am not collecting any tears but seeing people attack others for a different point of view over a video game is damn childish. I fitted a tank to my Hulk (2x Shield extender rigs, 1x Small shield extender, 2x Invul, 1x DCU) i'll admit it's not an impressive tank (remaining modules are 1x MLU, 1x Survey Scanner and 3x Strip miner) and all it achieved was instead of 1 Dessy being able to kill me, it would take 3-4, so yeah.... fitting tanks on hulks (unless they are ridiculously expensive officer fits Which actually encourage ganking for the modules)) was relatively pointless.
yeah, the more buffer you put on the ship the less chance you'll find yourself in a pickle. I found that a lot of these solo gankers go after the hulks that aren't protected or fit badly.
Moreover, just like as there are a lot of players who fit their hulks badly, there are players who gank that follow a similar mindset of not scanning down the ships fits and go in expecting the win.
I agree that a badly fitted hulk should be destroyed and the victim should learn that a ship with a 300 million isk price tag should be protected. But I do digress, there are people who can afford to do that.=) |
Danny Diamonds
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
You should be ashamed of yourself, OP. |
MIrple
BSC LEGION
Tactical Narcotics Team
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
I am not going to argue that 4 Cat is hard or expensive but I will say that those 4 Cats would rather find 4 Hulks that are not tanked and kill 4 ships vs just your one ship. That is the beauty of fitting a tank its making your ship not worth the effort when there are other people out there that fit zero tank. I really wish all the miners would have truely fitted tanks to there ships. It would be interesting to see the numbers from that. On the other hand the Mak prepatch needed some love you couldn't fit any sort of tank on that ship with the CPU PG it had. |
Charles Baker
Federal Mineral Acquisition
VORTEX RISING
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
MIrple wrote:I am not going to argue that 4 Cat is hard or expensive but I will say that those 4 Cats would rather find 4 Hulks that are not tanked and kill 4 ships vs just your one ship. That is the beauty of fitting a tank its making your ship not worth the effort when there are other people out there that fit zero tank. I really wish all the miners would have truely fitted tanks to there ships. It would be interesting to see the numbers from that. On the other hand the Mak prepatch needed some love you couldn't fit any sort of tank on that ship with the CPU PG it had.
4 Catalysts for 1 Hulk is still very much worth it. |
MIrple
BSC LEGION
Tactical Narcotics Team
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Charles Baker wrote:MIrple wrote:I am not going to argue that 4 Cat is hard or expensive but I will say that those 4 Cats would rather find 4 Hulks that are not tanked and kill 4 ships vs just your one ship. That is the beauty of fitting a tank its making your ship not worth the effort when there are other people out there that fit zero tank. I really wish all the miners would have truely fitted tanks to there ships. It would be interesting to see the numbers from that. On the other hand the Mak prepatch needed some love you couldn't fit any sort of tank on that ship with the CPU PG it had. 4 Catalysts for 1 Hulk is still very much worth it.
It is but what I am saying is look at the killboards most hulks are solo or 2 ship killed after you make you ship take 4 ships to bring you down the number of ganked ships falls off quickly. |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
MIrple wrote:
It is but what I am saying is look at the killboards most hulks are solo or 2 ship killed after you make you ship take 4 ships to bring you down the number of ganked ships falls off quickly.
Strong point, because there is more than ISK at play - getting that many Cats together isn't always possible. BCs (Tornados, Talos) tended to compensate for lack of numbers - at a steep cost, but EHP numbers I am seeing make BCs highly inefficient for ganking these new Exhumers - as in, you spend far more than the cost of the Exhumer to kill it.
Net result: far less ganking due to individuals not having large enough groups to gank , suicide BCs are forced off of the field due to inefficiency. Less ganking = much safer high sec, because, sadly, ganking was the ONLY real threat left in highsec.
And did highsec REALLY need to become safer?
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
586
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:MIrple wrote:
It is but what I am saying is look at the killboards most hulks are solo or 2 ship killed after you make you ship take 4 ships to bring you down the number of ganked ships falls off quickly.
Strong point, because there is more than ISK at play - getting that many Cats together isn't always possible. BCs (Tornados, Talos) tended to compensate for lack of numbers - at a steep cost, but EHP numbers I am seeing make BCs highly inefficient for ganking these new Exhumers - as in, you spend far more than the cost of the Exhumer to kill it. Net result: far less ganking due to individuals not having large enough groups to gank , suicide BCs are forced off of the field due to inefficiency. Less ganking = much safer high sec, because, sadly, ganking was the ONLY real threat left in highsec. And did highsec REALLY need to become safer?
The only dudes for who high sec is safe is for you. You shouldn't even be able to pass a high sec gate without being poded by local police.
Then what you'd cry and ragewuit because null/low is too hard and about blobs?
brb |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:-Mackinaw: Unfortunately, miners are already theorycrafting the 'AFK/bot miner' of their dreams - the 'max yield Mackinaw'. Its ridiculously buffed base EHP stats mean it will be safe from all but the most dedicated gankers. I don't believe that CCP wants to reward 'AFK play' - but that is exactly what the current Mackinaw iteration does. So give it a weakest natural tank. Allow gankers to regulate AFK abuse.
That could work if miner has logi tanking those gankers.
It's meant for solo miners. Solo. No logis. Comprende? |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
586
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:-Mackinaw: Unfortunately, miners are already theorycrafting the 'AFK/bot miner' of their dreams - the 'max yield Mackinaw'. Its ridiculously buffed base EHP stats mean it will be safe from all but the most dedicated gankers. I don't believe that CCP wants to reward 'AFK play' - but that is exactly what the current Mackinaw iteration does. So give it a weakest natural tank. Allow gankers to regulate AFK abuse. That could work if miner has logi tanking those gankers. It's mean for solo miners. Solo. No logis. Comprende?
There is no problem with AFK playing, but there is one with ganking exhumers that needs to be regulated. Just change your targets for T1 haulers, and please start doing it massively. CCP might finally figure out those needs some buffs too.
brb |
Azami Nevinyrall
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
349
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Nostradamouse Riraille wrote:I guess the bacon was a lie...
Damnit... Got drawn into another thread with a misleading title...
I want bacon and retrievers.
Bacon covered retrievers...
OR
Retrievers that mine bacon!
Do you know what a sh*t-barometer is? It measures the sh*t-pressure in the air, did you hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of sh*t... |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:There is no problem with AFK playing, but there is one with ganking exhumers that needs to be regulated. Just change your targets for T1 haulers, and please start doing it massively. CCP might finally figure out those needs some buffs too.
Shoot them with what exactly? With strip miners? Be quiet. Gankers might get an idea that there's actually miners who could bite back. We miners are supposed to be carebears who can only shoot asteroids. Let them fall into false sense of safety. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:MIrple wrote:
It is but what I am saying is look at the killboards most hulks are solo or 2 ship killed after you make you ship take 4 ships to bring you down the number of ganked ships falls off quickly.
Strong point, because there is more than ISK at play - getting that many Cats together isn't always possible. BCs (Tornados, Talos) tended to compensate for lack of numbers - at a steep cost, but EHP numbers I am seeing make BCs highly inefficient for ganking these new Exhumers - as in, you spend far more than the cost of the Exhumer to kill it. Net result: far less ganking due to individuals not having large enough groups to gank , suicide BCs are forced off of the field due to inefficiency. Less ganking = much safer high sec, because, sadly, ganking was the ONLY real threat left in highsec. And did highsec REALLY need to become safer?
To answer your question: No. But look at the countless threads about how bad ganking is etc. So a few people cried loud enough to be seen as many. That's how lobbyism works.
So, mining barge changes okay okay, next step is to reduce reward in hisec even more. let mining in lowsec / null be a honeypod. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
1172
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
I think the Hulk is fine now... mostly.
The Mack could be a little less tanky, while the Skiff could be a little less yieldy and ore bay so that they don't step on each others toes as much.
Also, since the Mack is more for solo play, it should have a cargo hold large enough for at least 1 set of each crystal for the ores common to HS. If it does already, then ignore that point. I haven't actually played with the crystals on Sisi since I cannot use them skillwise. |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
./facepalm
Suicide ganking is just keeping the gankers and the ganked in high-sec.
High-sec shouldn't be nerfed. It should be a place where players can recover before heading back to low-sec. This current s**thole where people don't want to risk PvP because people have to do 2-3 times more missions than before to get more ships is what stops people. Fit smarter? Scout with multi-boxed alts? Where's the fun in that? |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING
En Garde
64
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Once again, another thread utterly forgetting that the expanded Mackinaw cargo hold might just a little bit have SOMETHING to due with it being the best Ice Mining Ship, especially after the coming buff.
Ice takes up lots of space, therefore making it so the Mackinaw would be the best ship to have a large cargohold since it is mainly used to mine ice. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc
En Garde
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hey, where is this ticker at that I hear about? The one that counts how many times you spin your ship?
I never used to spin it so I decided to but cannot locate any ticker. |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
477
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
There is no problem with AFK playing, but there is one with ganking exhumers that needs to be regulated. Just change your targets for T1 haulers, and please start doing it massively. CCP might finally figure out those needs some buffs too.
Nope. There is a problem with AFK playing.
Wayyyy too many pods just sit there silently waiting for death after they lose their ship.
Normal players try to get their pods out of harms way. People who are in the shower or watching TV tend not to.
Giving those types of players a crunchy hard suit of armor only further encourages more of this kind of thing.
Hulks are alright - miners (at least the 20% of them that aren't cheating with scripts...) will have to manually move ore on a regular basis. They'll be 'playing EVE'. Mining could be more interesting, true, but at least it requires more than a single click an hour.
Mackinaws do not have this problem. They should not be rewarded with load of extra EHP - which allows them to suck ice for an hour or more, in a totally non-interactive manner.
In other words, sure - give them the potential to AFK mine - but balance that out by making them more squishy. Tempt miners into walking away, but leave them a greater possibility that if they do - they may end up waking up in a brand new clone.
|
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mining barges are meant to A. mine stuff and B. survive.
Sure PG, CPU, and more slots could increase potential tank, but it increases potential EVERYTHING ELSE. Could you imagine mining barge misuse worse than a cyno-bait procurer? Level 3 mission drone Procurers? MWD Hulks tackling other Hulks?
The intent is clearly for them to mine and survive, requiring only a handful of mining skills, NOT requiring some couple million points in fitting and combat tanking skills that for some reason you all think every week-old character should have. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc
En Garde
54
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
What is wrong with AFKing? Nothing...just because you want to sit here all day and glue your face to a screen doesn't mean you should force everyone to.
You're just terrible :F |
MIrple
BSC LEGION
Tactical Narcotics Team
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Hypercake Mix wrote:Mining barges are meant to A. mine stuff and B. survive.
Sure PG, CPU, and more slots could increase potential tank, but it increases potential EVERYTHING ELSE. Could you imagine mining barge misuse worse than a cyno-bait procurer? Level 3 mission drone Procurers? MWD Hulks tackling other Hulks?
The intent is clearly for them to mine and survive, requiring only a handful of mining skills, NOT requiring some couple million points in fitting and combat tanking skills that for some reason you all think every week-old character should have.
And this is the problem Hulks are not meant to be flown by week old characters. Hulks Mak and Skiffs are Tech 2 ships ment to be flown by skills pilots. If your a week old toon fly a T1 mining barge |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc
En Garde
54
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Why should you restrict someone? You're all just jelly that other people are better than you. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Hulks Mak and Skiffs are Tech 2 ships ment to be flown by skills pilots. If your a week old toon fly a T1 mining barge
T1 cruisers with T1 resists. |
MIrple
BSC LEGION
Tactical Narcotics Team
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:MIrple wrote:Hulks Mak and Skiffs are Tech 2 ships ment to be flown by skills pilots. T1 cruisers with T1 resists.
Sorry I guess I am wrong Hulks are now T1 Cruisers guess all the Tech going into them was a lie. Boy you guys really over paid for your ships |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
58
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
The original barge thread has now been re-opened now and is ready to be used once again and can be found here and this thread will now be closed down.
Thank you for your patience and I hope the discussion can continue fruitfully in its original home.
Thread locked due to original thread being re-opened - ISD Type40.
ISD Type40
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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