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[Proposal] VR Battle Academy AKA Battlegrounds

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EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.11 21:33:00 - [1] Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 11/10/2010 21:41:57 Ever watched a promo video for Eve Online? Chances at included some awesome PvP battle or some such. Where in the new player experience does it help a person understand how to handle or work their way into PvP? Why would an MMO so revolving around PvP have no real gateway into one of their most advertised features? What is the common entry way into PvP currently? To bludgeon your head against experienced PvPers in lowsec or 0.0 and just learn the ropes through losing ship after ship? How many Empire dwellers stay in empire simply because the roof to enter into the lower security spaces feels too high and foreboding mainly due to inexperience and the paths to gain that experience are simply not fun for them? Why isn't there a better way? Something appealing and safe enough that both new players and veterans can test out things but confining enough that the vast majority of individuals would not forgo normal PvP for this new feature? Presenting Virtual Battle Academy: A few key details of VRBA > No loss from losing your ship or pod, it's essentially a game within a game. Kind of like that dream ** in Dallas. Nothing that happens here really matters. > No reward for winning a round. You won a training simulator, congratulations, go win the real thing now champ. > No SP limitations. Each person upon entering is essentially placed into a max SP clone for the purposes of their skills in the ship they use for the arena > Pre set team compositions and fittings that players are randomly placed into upon joining the VRBA queue. Every match would be either a mirror match or a scenario designed to teach a specific skill. > End of round stats for your E * fanatics > Join the queue from any station anywhere in Eve. > Zero AoE weaponry on the pre-set fits so friendly fire incidents revolve around a scaling punishment system detailed below. > No Trial Accounts > Only a character actively training a skill may queue up for the matches. If you are not training a skill upon entering the match your place in line is kindly given to the next participant until you start training something you lazy freaking bum. Oh? Tell me more! > Matches would range between 1v1 "honour duels" to 10v10 or 20v20 at CCP's discretion. > Team loadout would be semi randomly selected from a list of CCP generated fittings and ships. > "PvP Experts" would not only be welcome to join, but encouraged. See how many times you can use that trick you know to completely facestomp the Empire dwellers/Newbies before they learn to use it against you. The more experienced the competition the more you learn. > Friendly Aurora spoken(This is important)dialogs upon entering the match instruct you on the role and abilities of your specific ship. These can be shut off just as any other tutorial for those who feel they know everything or simply wish to figure it out for themselves. Friendly Fire Punishment System Upon the first friendly kill you are ejected from the match, shown an Aurora video on how to properly read and deal with what your overview is showing you and gifted with a one hour break from the VRBA system. The second friendly kill you are again, ejected from the match, shown an Aurora Video and gifted with a five hour break. 4th kill: 24 hours 5th kill: 48 hours At some point, again at CCP's discretion, you would lose the ability to join these matches outright. Permanently. Team setups could be pulled from previous alliance tournament teams, out of thin freaking air, or even from historical battles in Eve's history. This would even open up the possibility of shiny matches involving faction ships simply to increase fun factor and woo the new players into wanting to strive for these ships they wouldn't normally get to fly into combat with. Few fun facts to reiterate Players in this cannot > Use their SP > Pick their ship > Pick their loadout > Get ** from it at all of any sort.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2010.10.11 21:40:00 - [2] so what your saying is Armageddon I CHOOSE YOU! Pokemon music starts Not supporting... seriously... CCP has frakked up their game so baddly and yet you want to make it worse by adding new stuff? How about we fix the crap we already got first eh? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Mr Ludak Caldari Science Experts	Posted - 2010.10.11 21:43:00 - [3] No
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.11 21:44:00 - [4] Not at all. The player would have zero control over what ship they fly or how it's fit. They would get slotted into an arranged team randomly. They could be in a rifter or a T3 ship.
Nikita Haley Amarr Collegium Mechanicae	Posted - 2010.10.11 21:59:00 - [5] Are you sure you didn't mean to write a list of proposed FW changes? Not to declare New Eden's newest bloodsport over before it starts, but arranged, evenly matched fights only happen in Jita (and even then you'll usually get jumped by the opponent's corp by the end of it) and arena-style fights don't really teach anyone anything about PvP in EVE. That said, I would do nothing but queue up for these matches all day. Sounds like they'd be a blast.
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:00:00 - [6] Ya well putting a person randomly into a 600 man fight where one side horribly outnumbers the other doesn't sound fun or constructive. So mimicking a tournament setting would be the only real way to go about it.
Shobon Welp GoonFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:02:00 - [7] So what you want is Sisi only more ~~~hurrrrr zAnY aNd RaNdOm wheeeee~~~
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:05:00 - [8] Ya pretty much. Asking a new player to set up sisi can be a bit intimidating even though it's easy as **** now.
pushedback GoonWaffe	Posted - 2010.10.11 23:07:00 - [9] this proposal is dog****, mlyp
ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.10.12 00:10:00 - [10] Edited by: ShahFluffers on 12/10/2010 00:15:57 This proposal comes up from time to time and it always goes down the same way: in flames. The basic counter argument to this is; why would people want to engage in "real" PvP when you can just do something similar in, what is essentially, "no-risk" PvP? More than that, "arenas" don't teach the newbie how to assess the battlefield... it doesn't tech the newbie about fleet tactics, how to fit ships properly (because you give them a random ship in your proposal), or how to devise a strategy with others (i.e. RR gang, EWar gang, Wolfpack, Shadow Fleet, Disco gang, etc.)... you can only learn all that through the real deal. But then again, no one will care about any of the above because no one loses anything... no ISK, no ships, nada. edit: spelling fail _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown

Horrus Khrosian	Posted - 2010.10.12 00:29:00 - [11] How about just cause a civil war in the NC instead?
Lykouleon Trust Doesn't Rust	Posted - 2010.10.12 02:01:00 - [12] EVE is like the ultimate Darwinian experiment: you either get it or you fall out. The best way to learn to PVP is to join a PC corp and just start flying tacklers (rifters, rifters everywhere). The idea of a VR arena just seems to devalue that aspect of mentor-to-student system thats been the norm since EVE was released. Really, we just need more people scooping up new people and breaking them in, not coddling them around until they dare get their feet a little wet. Quote: Lord Makk > Be warned, Lykouleon is akin to the love-child of a Goon and a Maru'Kage, with just a touch of Butter Dog for bitterness
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.10.12 07:32:00 - [13] EVE combat without a chance of loss is like playing poker for peanuts. Both seem to be "just like the real thing" at first glance, but neither really works. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real!
Br41n Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.10.12 09:46:00 - [14] One can only learn PVP by losing ships by making stupid mistakes and learning from that. Not supported since it would never even get close to real pvp ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight? Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xyrdiana	Posted - 2010.10.12 16:51:00 - [15] YAY COST FREE PVP YAY!!!! lets not destroy whats left from the market.... we endure macros, infact they produce lots of high sec minerals-always want more. (shut up pvpers you have cheaper ships ) but if you actually make isk free pvp then who is gonna buy ships? modules? ammo? NOT SUPPORTED Welcome to the Sandbox
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.12 17:38:00 - [16] 2/10 for a decent but obvious trolling attempt.
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.13 20:36:00 - [17] Actually I spent nearly a month on an unafilliated alt asking hundreds upon hundreds of Empire dwellers that avoid PvP why. Their answers were routinely in the same areas. They avoid PvP because they are unfamiliar with it and the only way to "break in" according to the playerbase is to lose a **** pile of ships in the name of experience. The vast majority of these people really dislike the idea and find the whole concept of simply throwing away assets in that way un fun. There's a reason most of the Eve playerbase still lives in high sec. PvP's only way to learn is bashing your head against a wall until suddenly it makes sense. You people can spout "survival of the fittest" all you like but it make's no difference. It's bad game design to leave entry into one of your most advertised features completely missing from a game. But people will continue to spout that it would ruin pvp/ruin the sandbox etc when this would be constraining enough that the individual player would eventually want for more since they didnt even have control over their team, ship, fitting, etc in these scenarios. Would a group of people still play them 24/7? Of course. Would this detract from current meaningful pvp? Haha no.
Uriel Winston	Posted - 2010.10.13 20:55:00 - [18] so you practically say that they dont pvp because someone blobs them or they dont want to spend isk? Solutions: I) Join a Bigger blob alliance II) Fly t1 cruisers/frigates until you are familiar enough to use BC III) Grow balls pick your fight IV) dont expect to be OMFG PVP GOD because you fly a 8b vindicator? Ranked stats in EVE are Killboards and they track the big arena of EVE UNIVERSE
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.13 21:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Uriel Winston Edited by: Uriel Winston on 13/10/2010 21:43:31 so you practically say that they dont pvp because someone blobs them or they dont want to spend isk? Solutions: I) Join a Bigger blob alliance than the one that blobed you II) Fly t1 cruisers/frigates until you are familiar enough to use BC III) Grow balls pick your fights IV) dont expect to be a OMFG PVP GOD because you fly a 8b vindicator Ranked stats in EVE are Killboards and they track the big arena of EVE UNIVERSE While valid points obviously your "suggestions" aren't good enough since these avenues have been available to every Eve player since it's inception. And yet we still have the vast majority of Eve players avoiding PvP. Maybe it's time to admit the system's broken eh?
Ryan Easte Caldari Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC.	Posted - 2010.10.13 22:37:00 - [20] I say nay. Just improve faction warfare Mining is the path to enlightenment.

TeaDaze	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:07:00 - [21] A few years ago CCP did plan to do some kind of "simulated" PVP (before anyone shouts at me, I know that "real" PVP is still simulated because it is a game after all ). They got as far as doing some work on it before (paraphrasing) "the cluster became self aware and utterly rejected the code" or something to that effect. Personally I don't see the value of risk free PVP on TQ. Instead I suggest you fire up the spiffy new SISI client install tool and play on there where PVP is supposed to be by consent (other than in a few free for all areas in one system) and everything costs 100isk. Not 100% the same thing as your idea I admit, but you can do it right now TeaDaze.net Blog \| CSM Database
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:23:00 - [22] Originally by: TeaDaze A few years ago CCP did plan to do some kind of "simulated" PVP (before anyone shouts at me, I know that "real" PVP is still simulated because it is a game after all ). They got as far as doing some work on it before (paraphrasing) "the cluster became self aware and utterly rejected the code" or something to that effect. Personally I don't see the value of risk free PVP on TQ. Instead I suggest you fire up the spiffy new SISI client install tool and play on there where PVP is supposed to be by consent (other than in a few free for all areas in one system) and everything costs 100isk. Not 100% the same thing as your idea I admit, but you can do it right now Another valid opinion but again, it has been around nearly since Eve's inception and obviously has done nothing for the literally thousands of Eve players who have not initiated themselves into PvP despite having a desire to.
ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:28:00 - [23] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Actually I spent nearly a month on an unafilliated alt asking hundreds upon hundreds of Empire dwellers that avoid PvP why. .... The vast majority of these people really dislike the idea and find the whole concept of simply throwing away assets in that way un fun. And here you have exposed the biggest problem people have in entering PvP... "risk aversion." To do PvP is more of a "mental leap" than anything else. You have to be willing to risk (and sometimes lose) ships in the interest beating other players. Even so-called "blobbing" doesn't guarantee safety as there will always been a bigger "blob" (and in some cases, better tactics) that will counter yours. To create a "risk-free" PvP environment won't change this. People will still be "risk-adverse" and won't want to lose ships because well... what's the point? _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:32:00 - [24] A lot of the risk aversion from what I have come to understand through a month of conversation comes from the unwillingness to lose their ships without realizing why. This would give them a basis of experience to work from. Giving them confidence to go out and at least try because they have gotten their feet wet. Again, only suggesting this because the existing "mechanics" have obviously failed us.
ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:43:00 - [25] Edited by: ShahFluffers on 13/10/2010 23:50:14 Originally by: EdFromHumanResources A lot of the risk aversion from what I have come to understand through a month of conversation comes from the unwillingness to lose their ships without realizing why. This would give them a basis of experience to work from. Giving them confidence to go out and at least try because they have gotten their feet wet. Again, only suggesting this because the existing "mechanics" have obviously failed us. But you don't "learn" anything by being given a random ship that you have no idea how to fly or what tactics to use in the first place. And, assuming that people DO learn how to PvP through this, why would they want to then go out and lose "real" ships that cost "real" ISK when they can keep going back to the "simulation" and lose nothing? People will still be "risk adverse" whether or not they know how to PvP unless they can get over the fact that there will always be a chance of "real" death in "real" PvP. As far as the mechanics are concerned... those are fine. More blame is to be put on the majority of PvPers who don't wish to spend time training up people who can't get over that mental "block" of losing ships (believe me, I've tried my hand at this and have been constantly frustrated in my efforts due to this "block"). _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:51:00 - [26] Originally by: ShahFluffers Edited by: ShahFluffers on 13/10/2010 23:50:14 Originally by: EdFromHumanResources A lot of the risk aversion from what I have come to understand through a month of conversation comes from the unwillingness to lose their ships without realizing why. This would give them a basis of experience to work from. Giving them confidence to go out and at least try because they have gotten their feet wet. Again, only suggesting this because the existing "mechanics" have obviously failed us. But you don't "learn" anything by being given a random ship that you have no idea how to fly or what tactics to use in the first place. And, assuming that people DO learn how to PvP through this, why would they want to then go out and lose "real" ships that cost "real" ISK when they can keep going back to the "simulation" and lose nothing? People will still be "risk adverse" whether or not they know how to PvP unless they can get over the fact that there will always be a chance of "real" death in "real" PvP. As far as the mechanics are concerned... those are fine. More blame is to be put on the majority of PvPers who don't wish to spend time training up people who can't get over that mental "block" of losing ships (believe me, I've tried my hand at this and have been constantly frustrated in my efforts due to this "block"). You would learn the exact same things you learn on SISI and you would want to go do real pvp for the same reason people dont only pvp on sisi but do in fact PvP on TQ as well. Your logic is incredibly flawed since we have a living and breathing example of what I speak of that hasn't killed PvP in Eve yet


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